Earth to Vulcan in 30 minutes - a possible solution?

[Tom Servo]

If you are gonna critique this Trek for errors in natural space phenomena, you will have to critique all of Trek, because Trek has never been totally accurate in that regard.

It seems most of the problems you have with this film can be found with all of Trek, which negates your argument against the film.

Yeah right, and if I did that, next thing you tell me "You have to critique all of the films in that genre!"

I clearly remember I said before that just because Trek did it before, I didn't like it back then, and I certainly don't like it now.

Then go bitch about it in every other forum and not just here...

 

[EJA]

Let's be honest, people: This film is a huge mess from beginning to end, with inaccuracies and plot holes you could drive an aircraft carrier through. Yes, I'm well aware that there have been errors in Trek before, but it really does seem like the latest film just takes the cake. At the end of the day, it's little more than a mindless action flick. Seriously, there are times I almost feel like crying when I think about all the stuff that's wrong with this story.

 

[Tom Servo]

Let's be honest, people: This film is a huge mess from beginning to end, with inaccuracies and plot holes you could drive an aircraft carrier through. Yes, I'm well aware that there have been errors in Trek before, but it really does seem like the latest film just takes the cake. At the end of the day, it's little more than a mindless action flick. Seriously, there are times I almost feel like crying when I think about all the stuff that's wrong with this story.

Um, no it's not actually. Pretty much every problem people have had with this film has been explained pretty easily.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

IMO this whole "you need to stand motionless to be beamed up" idea just doesn't fit into the Trek mythos

IMO, it's a welcome change. Transporter capabilities and reliability are extremely variable, so building some limits into the system makes plenty of sense. Past abuses of the technology (which WERE abuses, since they were used so inconsistently throughout the show) could easily be ignored as such in the Abramsverse.

The Genesis planet was tearing itself to bits in TSFS, but Kirk and Spock didn't fall out of the transporter beam, did they?

In that specific example, they had already beamed out before the ground collapsed. But even then, it doesn't matter; new universe, new rules.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Let's be honest, people: This film is a huge mess from beginning to end, with inaccuracies and plot holes you could drive an aircraft carrier through. Yes, I'm well aware that there have been errors in Trek before, but it really does seem like the latest film just takes the cake. At the end of the day, it's little more than a mindless action flick. Seriously, there are times I almost feel like crying when I think about all the stuff that's wrong with this story.

Um, no it's not actually. Pretty much every problem people have had with this film has been explained pretty easily.

And most of them are pretty minor compared to problems OTHER movies have had.

 

[EJA]

it doesn't matter; new universe, new rules.

A few starships entering one universe from another does not alter the laws of physics or the advances in technology made in the time before that incursion.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

it doesn't matter; new universe, new rules.

A few starships entering one universe from another does not alter the laws of physics or the advances in technology made in the time before that incursion.

Indeed. And since we know absolutely nothing about the universe from which the Narada emerged, this is a moot point. No one has canonically confirmed that Futurespock is from the Prime Universe. He could easily be from an alternate universe spawned by the Temporal Cold War, or a universe created by the George and Gracie's mysterious disappearance, or a universe that began when Jean Luc Picard farted in the primordial soup before Q returned him to the Enterprise. Or it could be a universe that is COMPLETELY unrelated to the Prime universe and came to exist completely out of the imagination of Orci and Kruzman.

Which, no matter how you slice it, basically boils down to "new universe, new rules."

 

[JarodRussell]

Interesting. Two excuses for the mistakes in this movie.

1. "Old universe had issues before, so it doesn't matter."
2. "New universe, new rules."

Why do you guys actually waste time on trying to explain any of it?

 

[EJA]

it doesn't matter; new universe, new rules.

A few starships entering one universe from another does not alter the laws of physics or the advances in technology made in the time before that incursion.

Indeed. And since we know absolutely nothing about the universe from which the Narada emerged, this is a moot point. No one has canonically confirmed that Futurespock is from the Prime Universe. He could easily be from an alternate universe spawned by the Temporal Cold War, or a universe created by the George and Gracie's mysterious disappearance, or a universe that began when Jean Luc Picard farted in the primordial soup before Q returned him to the Enterprise. Or it could be a universe that is COMPLETELY unrelated to the Prime universe and came to exist completely out of the imagination of Orci and Kruzman.

Which, no matter how you slice it, basically boils down to "new universe, new rules."

Which is what makes it all the more tragic. Because everything that happened in previous Trek is now worthless.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Why do you guys actually waste time on trying to explain any of it?

That's a VERY good question.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

A few starships entering one universe from another does not alter the laws of physics or the advances in technology made in the time before that incursion.

Indeed. And since we know absolutely nothing about the universe from which the Narada emerged, this is a moot point. No one has canonically confirmed that Futurespock is from the Prime Universe. He could easily be from an alternate universe spawned by the Temporal Cold War, or a universe created by the George and Gracie's mysterious disappearance, or a universe that began when Jean Luc Picard farted in the primordial soup before Q returned him to the Enterprise. Or it could be a universe that is COMPLETELY unrelated to the Prime universe and came to exist completely out of the imagination of Orci and Kruzman.

Which, no matter how you slice it, basically boils down to "new universe, new rules."

Which is what makes it all the more tragic. Because everything that happened in previous Trek is now worthless.

I don't understand this mindset. In what way does "canon" add value to anything that happens in the Trekiverse?

I mean, honestly: Star Trek is a TV show, not a prophecy. It's value comes in its ability to entertain and inspire, not its ability to maintain a halfway coherent timeline of future history (which 90% of the time it fails to do anyway). Since the new universe accomplishes both of those goals, it is valuable. Since the old universe--with a few exceptions--accomplished both of those goals, it too remains valuable.

I didn't throw out all my old Spiderman comics just because the movies didn't follow the events at all. I still have "The Jackal Files" sitting in plastic in my closet where the guy describes in sickening detail exactly how Spiderman's and the Scarlet Spider's web shooters work; is this now worthless just because the MOVIE version has spiderman shooting webs out of glands in his wrists?

Or are you just that out of touch with reality that you have to pretend the Trekiverse is somehow less fictional than any other telvision franchise?

 

[JarodRussell]

not its ability to maintain a halfway coherent timeline of future history (which 90% of the time it fails to do anyway).

Some are entertained by that great background "history". It gives the fictional universe a lot of depth that goes beyond two hours of entertainment. Guess why this forum exists, and why there are people who write fan fiction. Ignoring that backstory means essentially ignoring the entire franchise, that was one continuous epic story of 4 - 5 starship Captains exploring the same galaxy in the same universe over the course of a century. And I'd say 90% of the time it gets it right. Which is the reason why there actually exists a canon fanatism. Would it really fail 90% of the time, the word canon wouldn't even exist for Trek fans.

 

[Tom Servo]

Interesting. Two excuses for the mistakes in this movie.

1. "Old universe had issues before, so it doesn't matter."
2. "New universe, new rules."

Why do you guys actually waste time on trying to explain any of it?

Because if we don't, every few days there is gonna be posts on this board about how there are so many errors in this movie and how it's so wrong...which it isn't.

Star Trek isn't a history book. This movie is free from canon...thank god...

 

[pookha]

actually the writers of tos were smart enough to view what had come before as a well to dip from to give the verse they wrote in more depth.
it wasnt viewed as a holy relic.
over the vast amount of just aired trek there are so many contradictions and questions raised i can see why the writers of the movies decided to take the direction they did.

i dont know but to me alot of the original fans viewed some of the stuff differently.
the odd stuff was viewed as a fun thing to build a story around or just a little nickpickty thing to be aware of without it getting in the way of the enjoyment of the show.

the episodes considered bad was due to the story itself being a mess or just stupid.
not because in most episodes people had to be standing still to be transportered but then could be transported from a moving space ship.

shrug.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

actually the writers of tos were smart enough to view what had come before as a well to dip from to give the verse they wrote in more depth.
it wasnt viewed as a holy relic.
over the vast amount of just aired trek there are so many contradictions and questions raised i can see why the writers of the movies decided to take the direction they did.

i dont know but to me alot of the original fans viewed some of the stuff differently.
the odd stuff was viewed as a fun thing to build a story around or just a little nickpickty thing to be aware of without it getting in the way of the enjoyment of the show.

the episodes considered bad was due to the story itself being a mess or just stupid.
not because in most episodes people had to be standing still to be transportered but then could be transported from a moving space ship.

shrug.

QFT

 

[EJA]

I've actually created a ST09 fan-edit thread on the Fan Productions section of the site, discussing how we would rework parts of the film to make it conform more to how we think it should have been, if we ever got the opportunity.

 

[Jerikka Dawn]

Speaking realistically and with respect to wider Trek lore, nothing that happens after Kirk's trial could have happened the way it's shown. We've discussed the awkwardness of them getting from Earth to Vulcan in what couldn't have been more than 30 minutes at the most, but what about the journey back? Spock dumps Kirk off on Delta Vega (still a bloody stupid thing to call the planet) and then proceeds to the Laurentian system at warp factor 4. Assuming the Laurentian system is far away from the Vulcan sector, it's going to take the Enterprise a heck of a long time to get there, during which time the rest of the Federation fleet will probably fly past them.

Kirk wanders round for a while on Delta Vega before he runs into Spock Prime, then there's another passage of time before they meet Scotty and beam onto the Enterprise. Kirk assumes command, and then presumably orders the Enterprise to change course and head for Earth. Later Sulu informs Kirk that the Narada will arrive at Earth eight minutes ahead of them. Now the Narada had been at warp and heading for the Sol sector well before Enterprise and has a considerable headstart, so I should think Nero would have beaten the Enterprise by a bit more than a couple of minutes, unless during the voyage Scotty managed to upgrade the engines so that they went a little bit faster than the Narada, which I doubt is within even Scotty's capabilities. And we know Nero couldn't have taken the warp highway, otherwise he most likely would've already reached Earth and destroyed it by the time Kirk got back on board the Enterprise. And we still have the problem of why, despite its super-advanced technology, Starfleet is still no match for Nero. If all this new tech was designed with something like the Narada in mind (and especially if it was partially derived from it), you'd think they would do a better job. Ye god, what a shambles!!

Enterprise moving at Warp 4. Enterprise stopping off at Delta Vega to dump Kirk.

Nero having to delay his trip to Earth because he still had to get the defense frequencies from Pike -- we don't know how long that took.

I say we call it even.

Maybe the next movie will have the Enterprise "jump" thru space like ships on the recent Battlestar Galactica. That way they can immediately show up at New Vulcan or Andoria from Earth.

The 30 minutes to Earth doesn't bother me, what bothers me is the beaming of Kirk and Spock from Saturn's moon Titan to the Narada in Earth orbit. That's almost halfway across the solar system, and the only person to be transported a long distance before in Trek was Gary Seven and that was by a race far more advanced than the Federation.

Negatory. The Dominion was established to possess some very long-distance transportation technology in DS9. Skrain Dukat even managed to beam Major Kira off of Deep Space 9 and onto Empok Nor, a couple of sectors away, after he'd gone rogue.

It's entirely possible that Scotty invented what SpockPrime calls "transwarp beaming" during or shortly after the Dominion War in the Prime Universe based upon his earlier intra-solar system beaming techniques and upon Dominion technology. And while intra-system beaming was never depicted as normal, it was also never depicted as impossible. We can justify it if we suppose that the power usage makes it a fairly unreliable form of beaming that is either prohibitively power-consuming or has enough failures that it's only used in extreme emergencies.

I believe (ex)Daemon Bok used a subspace transporter method to beam Jason Vigo off the Enterprise to a location light years away in TNG "Bloodlines" which the Enterprise then used in the same manner to send Picard after him.

 

[Brandonv]

- Sulu announces maximum warp, and Chekov's announcement are made BEFORE kirk wakes up.
- It is at THAT point that we notice McCoy's costume change etc. It's possible that in Kirk's sleep, he heard the annoucnement, and when the drug wore off, he suddenly came to.

I missed your post the first time I read this thread. I will need to see the movie again to be sure, but this explanation could work for me.

 

[gimpy117]

what if the just invented trans warp sooner?

 

[USS Excelsior]

They arrive at their destinations in the amount of time it suits the plot.