DS9 Fans: The Bane of Our Very Existence - Part 9,782

[TheGodBen]

Re: Contuing Conversation: My Poor Husband

Yes, I can. I've seen a vast majority of reviews and opinions about that arc and the complaints outweighed everything else. They complain that it should've been foreshadowed from the first episode, that the attack should've lasted the whole episode, that the whole bit about the Vulcans helping find out what happened should've been an episode in itself, that they should've had Starfleet HQ be in Florida to be destroyed by the Xindi, and other stuff.

Anwar, have you ever seen me make those complaints before? Other people might have, but I've never said anything along those lines. I really liked the Xindi arc, it is one of my favourite parts of the whole Trek franchise and my biggest complaints about it are when it paused to do episodes that weren't about the Xindi, such as that cowboy episode. I don't care about what other people complain about with the Xindi arc because I don't, can you please accept that?

Never mind that if it had been DS9 or NuBSG no one would be complaining.

I'm not complaining about it, I'm saying I liked it, and I'm saying that I liked Enterprise in general.

I've read posts that complain the whole thing was racist because Picard was a white man and that he deserves to be hated because he's a TNG character.

Have I ever made such comments? Frankly, I think that anybody who thinks that that scene was racist is an idiot and I'm certain most people would agree with me. Because one loon said something stupid does not mean that everyone who likes DS9 said it, Niners are not Borg.

And why would I have any sort of hate for Picard? He's a fantastic character and probably the best captain in the franchise, even if I do prefer Sisko a little more. I love Picard.

No, I just have a low opinion of the haters. And the irrational Trek haters.

You have a low opinion of extremist haters? That's fine, I do too, from the haters who irrationally attack BSG to those who attack Voyager. But please, stop painting those of us who merely dislike the shows with the same brush as those people, we are not the same as them.

And when the "kind and tolerant" people you say exist openly outnumber the haters who post garbage and possibly do something to put the haters in their place then I'll say my eyes are opened.

We already do, Anwar. It's a bright world, and the good people on this board far outnumber the bad. How can I help you to see that?

Piller wanted arc storytelling and crew tensions. Taylor didn't, and she wanted holonovel stories. Big guess who I wanted to be the big one in charge more.

See, we agree on many things, during my rewatch I've been grading all the writers and so far Michael Piller has come out on top. And he also did a great job on TNG, he is the man responsible for the golden-era of Trek we had during the 90s. May he rest in peace.


Anwar, this little feud we have has to stop. It started around two months ago when you made a statement of fact which was a gross exaggeration of the truth and I tried to correct you, so you acted hostile towards me and jumped to conclusions about what I'm like. Frankly, you were insulting and I wasn't much better, but I'm willing to forgive you, Anwar, and I hope you can forgive me too. Please, open your mind to possibilities and accept that I'm not the rabid hater that you think I am, I'm just a guy who didn't like a TV show and who tried to play fair by giving it another shot. So it hasn't worked out brilliantly, that doesn't mean I didn't try.

You believe in a bright future for humanity, one where humans put aside our petty differences and forgive one another? I do too. So, please, stop calling me a liar, stop insulting me and stop judging me by attributes I do not have.

 

[Anwar]

Re: Contuing Conversation: My Poor Husband

Okay. I've had enough time to cool off and got over the board burnout. I forgive you.

 

[rahullak]

Re: DS9 Fans and Voyager

GodBen and GodAnwar have forgiven each other! Hooray! Who said forgiveness isn't divine?

Er...what was this thread actually about?

 

[Anwar]

Re: DS9 Fans and Voyager

The double standard that VOY gets, and how if any of its aliens or ideas had been in the other shows like TNG or DS9 and everything about them had been the same no one would complain about them the way they complain in VOY.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Re: Contuing Conversation: My Poor Husband

And for your information, there were people who DID agree with me on how Niners have it out for VOY fans.

Wow....talk about a persecution complex.

Are you FRAKKIN' SERIOUS?????

Because really...I have been pretty much the sole mod of the DS9 forum for over 7 1/2 YEARS, and I just don't see DS9 fans 'having it out' for ANYONE.

We like DS9. So SUE US.

Good grief!

Some of us like Voyager (myself included, not at all incidentally)...and some of us don't. But that set of circumstances is by no means confined to DS9 fans. I know plenty of TOS fans, TNG fans, and ENT fans who like VOY...and many who don't like it at all.

And given your lack of posting record in the DS9 forum, I'd bet that you don't like DS9! But do we care?????? NOT IN THE SLIGHTEST. Hate away, friend! It matters not one BIT to us. Nor do we automatically make that leap that, because you don't like DS9, you are 'out to get us' (although given the frequency of these threads, maybe you are??? ).

Dislike of VOY is not, not, NOT a requirement for being a DS9 fan...and the only ones who seem to say stuff like that and keep this drama alive year after year after MIND-NUMBING YEAR, are guys like YOU.

Believe me, in the DS9 forum, we spend ZERO time plotting against Voyager or it's fans and/or ragging on VOY. Because here's a news flash for you:

WE JUST DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU THAT MUCH.

You seem to have this impression that DS9 fans spend untold hours plotting your demise...and it just ain't true, my friend. It just ain't true. Because truth be told, you are only BARELY on our radar at all. In fact, the only time I even THINK about you is when I see absurd threads like this from the front page of the board...and wonder to myself if I should bother to wade in YET AGAIN and listen to this stuff.

Shoot...I quite like VOY (and it contains the ONLY 'ship in Trek I actually care about) and I absolutely ADORE Kate Mulgrew no end...but the paranoia is so intense in here sometimes, I actively avoid this forum....and the only reason I am bothering with this post now is because I happen to ADORE both of your mods...who, by the way, I get along with famously....despite the fact that they are both (*gasp*) avid VOY fans who don't really like DS9 at all, to my knowledge.

The fact is, certain members of this forum spend WAY more time bitching and moaning about DS9 fans than DS9 fans have EVER spent bitching and moaning about Voyager OR it's fans. In fact, I can't REMEMBER a thread like this ever even occurring in the DS9 forum...and yet, one pops up here every couple of months, like clockwork: "DS9 Fans: The Bane of Our Very Existence - Part 9,782". **

Sometimes, I don't bother with the latest round at all...and sometimes I come in and say pretty much what I've said here today.

But it won't change anything....and in a couple of months, after I have long forgotten that you even exist at all, I will see another thread title like this, know what is being said yet AGAIN, I will be back to rebuff yet ANOTHER set of baseless accusations.

Trust me - DS9 fans do NOT spend a single nanosecond of time plotting against you. You are just not that important to us. And it is only your own ego which leads you to believe that you are.

Seriously.





**(In fact, come to think of it, that would be an excellent thread title! Akiraprise, my love...how 'bout we just make it so, sticky it to the top of the forum, and get it over with already! )

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: Contuing Conversation: My Poor Husband

You didn't like her character, or you didn't like that you felt sorry for her? Ryan is okay with her time on Trek and doesn't resent it.

A combination of both. I didn't like the character (both for plot reasons--I didn't like the turn the Borg took on VOY in general, AND because I felt like the character was brought in just to sex up the show) and felt like Ryan did much better on Boston Public as far as the role she got. It did not help when I heard that the catsuits were so tight they made her black out, and it just struck me as...using her.

For the record, I was also not a fan of Kira's uniform changes on DS9, which I think were done for similar reasons. I liked her better with a military look. I felt that better suited the character AND portrayed a strong woman in a military role where you look at her job, and her character first, not her "attributes." I found her more...relatable to what I was familiar with as an Air Force brat, before they changed her uniform and hair.

So yes, I apply the same standard to DS9.

 

[Anwar]

Re: Contuing Conversation: My Poor Husband

PKTrekGirl, first off Mods aren't allowed by their own rules to single posters out like that and address them personally.

And second, chill out. You're more of ranter than anyone else in this thread.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: DS9 Fans and Voyager

GodBen and GodAnwar have forgiven each other! Hooray! Who said forgiveness isn't divine?

Er...what was this thread actually about?

It started out as some criticisms of things Anwar said in another thread and I tried to divert it into a West Wing clip thread. I can keep trying if you want.

Bartlett rants at God
Bartlett and Toby in 17 People
CJ had woot canaaa & the follow up.

Damn, I miss that show.

 

[Thestral]

Re: Contuing Conversation: My Poor Husband

I honestly think that among a certain segment of DS9 fandom - not all, by any means, but some of the more, um, fervent fans - the "fact" that Voyager is irredeemably awful has become a received truth: unquestioned, unquestionable, and, in their minds, absolutely proven.

And there is also a strong - though certainly not universal - sentiment that anybody who likes Voyager it isn't a true fan of DS9 and probably not a true fan of Trek at all.

Hey, we don't judge you by the Janeway fanatics so it's not fair to use our nutty fringe against us.

Then again, seeing how all of them became Moore's lapdogs and BSG worshipers (the same show that outright condemned Trek as not being real people in the least) I don't think they are really Trek fans.

However, I think everybody has said it best. (Well, PKTrekGirl said it best, but that's another story ) Most fans of all Trek shows are pretty easygoing, willing to see the good in others and to recognize that just because a show isn't to their tastes doesn't mean they need to ridicule it. IDIC. Even for those who have identifiable "affiliations."

 

[Akiraprise]

Re: Contuing Conversation: My Poor Husband

....and the only reason I am bothering with this post now is because I happen to ADORE both of your mods...who, by the way, I get along with famously....despite the fact that they are both (*gasp*) avid VOY fans who don't really like DS9 at all, to my knowledge.

Actually I think DS9 is cool. If the channel I was forced to watch it on first run wasn't always preempting it with local sports I might have gotten more into it. The first time I watched it all the way through was when Spike was airing it. Is it better then VOY? No, but VOY was never preempted either so I was able to watch it on a regular basis. But DS9 is still cool. I just rewatched the last season over the last week in my spare time. I like Ezri.

 

[kes7]

I think I posted this in my thread gone wrong the other day, but I'm another who loves VOY, DS9 and TNG. I haven't watched enough ENT to say I love it, but I don't have any problem with it, either, at least not the five episodes I've seen. It's all modern Trek to me, and I enjoy it all. TNG got me into Trek as a kid/early teen, VOY got me back into it as an adult, and I'm just now watching DS9 for the first time and enjoying it. Each show has its strengths and weaknesses. I personally think much of the acting on DS9 is terrible, but the writing and characterization is excellent and the storylines are different than anything else in Trek. Likewise, VOY has its own feel, a little rougher around the edges than TNG but with similar interesting explorations. Janeway, whatever you think of her, is always fascinating to watch and the other characters had many compelling moments, too. I'm realistic about the many faults of VOY, but I can't help but love it just a little more than all the others, because I love the characters so much.

So, contrary to the belief of some, you can love all the incarnations of Trek. I also loved the new movie, for what it's worth.

 

[PSGarak]

The thread title amuses me to no end. I've always enjoyed being a bane.

I wasn't able to stay with Voyager. I tried, but it wound up annoying me too much. I liked TNG a lot. I haven't re-watched it except for a stray episode here or there, and it hasn't aged as well as I would like based on what I caught. However, it's possible I caught some of the weaker episodes. I don't remember the totality of the series all that well.

The only Trek series I've felt like I've wanted to return to have been TOS and DS9. I don't look down on fans of the other shows at all. I'm very much a to each his own type of person, and I think each show has something for people with different tastes.

I also liked the new movie. I had a lot of fun watching it, and I'm looking forward to seeing where this Trek incarnation goes.

 

[Anwar]

I liked the new flick too, except for Kirk being made Captain straight out of the Academy.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

I like TOS, TNG and DS9 more than Voyager, but I still think it's a decent show. I do think it has too many episodes that don't live up to their potential, but there are some, such as Latent Image and Survival Instinct that I think are up there with the best of Star Trek. Not all of the characters really do it for me, but I like Janeway when she's in badass mode, I love the Doctor and Seven of Nine, and I think the whole Tom/B'Elanna relationship was rather charming.

 

[JustKate]

Re: Contuing Conversation: My Poor Husband

I honestly think that among a certain segment of DS9 fandom - not all, by any means, but some of the more, um, fervent fans - the "fact" that Voyager is irredeemably awful has become a received truth: unquestioned, unquestionable, and, in their minds, absolutely proven.

And there is also a strong - though certainly not universal - sentiment that anybody who likes Voyager it isn't a true fan of DS9 and probably not a true fan of Trek at all.

Hey, we don't judge you by the Janeway fanatics so it's not fair to use our nutty fringe against us.

Well, I am very pleased to hear that, particularly since since I am actually not a Janeway fanatic. At all. I like Janeway just fine, but she's not my favorite captain or anything.

I have sometimes thought that "JustKate" might not have been the best choice for a name on a Trek board - only because people seem to assume that it comes from Kathryn Janeway or Kate Mulgrew. But actually I use it because "Kate" is one of my RL nicknames. Back in the days when I did chatrooms, I used to use "JustKate" there, and when I signed on here I suddenly thought, "Hey, I always liked that name - I'll use it on the Trek BBS." I never even thought about its Voyager connection until it started causing some confusion in one of those interminable Janeway threads in Trek Lit. Ah, well.

But anyway, as I hope I have made clear, I know perfectly well that not all DS9 fans are nutty. Well, not in that way, anyway. I consider myself a DS9 fan, actually (I like/love four out of the five Trek shows), and while I might have some nutty tendencies, those don't involve nutty super-allegiance to a Trek show. Any Trek show.

Most fans of all Trek shows are pretty easygoing, willing to see the good in others and to recognize that just because a show isn't to their tastes doesn't mean they need to ridicule it. IDIC. Even for those who have identifiable "affiliations."

Does anybody know...do other franchises with strong fan bases have these little intramural arguments? I haven't spent any time delving into the murky waters of Star Wars fandom, but I think I've gathered that it is split between those who like only the original three movies vs. those who like the newer movies? Is LOTR fandom split between those who love The Hobbit and those who hate it or something?

 

[rahullak]

I liked the new flick too, except for Kirk being made Captain straight out of the Academy.

Actually there was a "Three Years Later..." caption. So instead of being made commander after 4 years and captain after 8 years (which is what usually happens according to the dialog in the movie), he made captain after 3 because of his heroics. I can live with that.

 

[kimc]

Re: Contuing Conversation: My Poor Husband

....and the only reason I am bothering with this post now is because I happen to ADORE both of your mods...who, by the way, I get along with famously....despite the fact that they are both (*gasp*) avid VOY fans who don't really like DS9 at all, to my knowledge.

Actually I think DS9 is cool. If the channel I was forced to watch it on first run wasn't always preempting it with local sports I might have gotten more into it. The first time I watched it all the way through was when Spike was airing it. Is it better then VOY? No, but VOY was never preempted either so I was able to watch it on a regular basis. But DS9 is still cool. I just rewatched the last season over the last week in my spare time. I like Ezri.

I may as well go on record too. I watched the first few episodes of DS9 then real life interfered to the point where I was distracted. When I tried to pick it up later I was totally lost. Perhaps someday I'll try to pick it up again.

 

[teya]

Re: Contuing Conversation: My Poor Husband

It did not help when I heard that the catsuits were so tight they made her black out, and it just struck me as...using her.

Wasn't the catsuit--it was the Borg costume and was attributable to a costume miscalculation: they neglected to take into account the bald cap when they designed it and so the neck was too tight.

 

[exodus]

I'm going to say it like Sinead O'Conner: "I do not want what I haven't got."

I like TOS for being TOS
I like TNG for being TNG
I like DS9 for being DS9
I like VOY for being VOY

They are what thery are and I accept them as such.
(...spoof, just like that........................he was gone!)

 

[Thor Damar]

In honour of GodBen's excellent peace offerings of the West Wing I would like to say this:

let DS9 be DS9 and let VGR be VGR.

And given that we seem to have reached a happy agreement perhaps a alternative title should be

"DS9 and VGR fans reach a concordat via the West Wing"

(P.S I still have not seen the movie but I'm okay with being spoiled. Yes, yes I'll hand in my geek card now...)