Two more LCARS schematics

[Crazy Eddie]

Why do would you assume the impulse engines run on antimatter as a result of the script language?

I didn't. YOU did when you said

So since the script says the intermix was channeling antimatter and that thus powered the impulse engines for warp .5

Are you daft? YOU'RE the one who asked for elaboration. Is there something you want elaborated ON, or are you just being argumentative?

I didn't understand you argument or it's value. It's your argument, it's up to you to make it understandable.

Then explain what part you seek to understand.

False: The intermrix was part of a impulse/M/AR powersystem.

Yes, a power system. Not "the warp drive system."

The combination drive doesn't vindicate you claims it makes it's vague.

Except it directly implies that the intermix chamber can operate in the absence of an antimatter reactor, and therefore so can the Phoenix. And weren't YOU the one who originally posted that link to the LCARS database, which explicitly showed a pair of FUSION REACTORS connected to the intermix chamber to provide backup power if the main reactor failed?

I haven't even seen a return on this claim that TNG Coming of Age Type 7 Shuttle had any reference to an intermix.

I never said it did. I said that it is implied that the imbalance of the ship's engine core stalled the IMPULSE engine. That implies a combined power system similar to the TMP Enterprise is still in use even in the 24th century, which--also--is used to power impulse engines as well as warp drives. Since in the 24th century impulse engines work ONLY on fusion power, this is another point for the Phoenix not requiring antimatter.

 

[Saquist]

I didn't. YOU did when you said

I didn't say anything by implication. You assume and you assume incorrectly.

So since the script says the intermix was channeling antimatter and that thus powered the impulse engines for warp .5

I interpret that differently. I understand why you believe otherwise though. I think the part of the intermix you are attributing to the impulse engine was channeling plasma. But other parts may have been channeling antimatter.

Then explain what part you seek to understand.

The whole part. What do you define as a power system. I've found no evidence that it's a power system of any kind. Perhaps I don't understand what a powersystem is.

The combination drive doesn't vindicate you claims it makes it's vague.

Except it directly implies that the intermix chamber can operate in the absence of an antimatter reactor, and therefore so can the Phoenix. And weren't YOU the one who originally posted that link to the LCARS database, which explicitly showed a pair of FUSION REACTORS connected to the intermix chamber to provide backup power if the main reactor failed?

That implication can't be made.
The Refit Enterpise had a M/AR and Phoenix plant is unknown and NO I was not the one that posted a link to the LCARS database for a FR connected to the chamber.
I certainly would like to see it though.

I never said it did. I said that it is implied that the imbalance of the ship's engine core stalled the IMPULSE engine. That implies a combined power system similar to the TMP Enterprise is still in use even in the 24th century, which--also--is used to power impulse engines as well as warp drives. Since in the 24th century impulse engines work ONLY on fusion power, this is another point for the Phoenix not requiring antimatter.[/QUOTE]

I remember you making a clear declaritive not an implication. Maybe I'm wrong. The shuttle of the Enterprise D didn't not have warp drive. The first small craft to have warp drive was the Danube class Runnabout and then the Type 9.

 

[Maurice]

The bottom on the ship is concave. The grilles for the warp engines have clear line-of sight on each other; that's something Andy specifically told me he did. Also, is that Spirit of Opportunity the raider ship that should be docked in the underside of the forward hull? There's also that thing above the base of the neck that should rise up.

This upskirt shot from Sirius Replicas clearifies DS9Sega's point about the warp-field grilles and shows the Spirit of Opportunity docked like the Aerowing of the Intrepid classs, Waverider of the Nova class, or captains yachts of various Starfleet ships. Showing it within the cutaway is too confusing to the eye, either as depicted or in outline form. Maybe I should add two arrows in the figure. I was hoping the term "drop-launched" in the label would suffice.

I'm not sure what you mean about the thing at the base of the neck. I should look into that.

Extending the neck is a gesture of surrender, but that capability might have some maintenance or loading purpose, as well.

Dammit, I had a reply all done with links and it got screwed up!!!

To help you with this, I'm linking to some good reference images.

Great photo showing the ship with all it's surrender posture pieces opened up. What's also good about this photo is that it's just slightly higher than a perfect side profile, which may be helpful in getting the silhouette right. You can see that lower part of the ship's rear section hangs below the plane of the underside of the head/neck. The thing raised above the ship's back is what I meant about the thing at the "base of the neck". I should have said "overhanging the base of the neck".

"Last Outpost" screen grabs illustrating the surrender posture. Note the the "head" opens up.

"The Battle" screencap illustrating the concave nature of the underside. And an aft view illustrating the same.

I don't think you should use a scaled up shuttle to represent the belly-mounted raider, as its outline is nothing like the shuttle's.

 

[Timo]

Sorry to quibble, but since Ex Astris Scientia blocks hotlinking, it might be better to do those links as naked addresses that can be easily copied and pasted, rather than as overlaid with clever text...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bill Morris]

I believe DS9Sega was referring to this, basically:

You have to watch out for these on the beaches in Angola.

Let's see. My car has electric folding mirrors, four power windows, power antenna, and power folding roof, not to mention remote-release trunk, gas cap, and hood. And the doors even open. It also has a self-cleaning viewscreen and powered and articulating wheeled landing gear that allow it to roam a planet's surface.

Here's the D'Kora schematic with minor corrections and tweaks:

 

[Timo]

Hmm... If the opening up really is a gesture of surrender (and not just a random malfunction triggered by the Tkonian beams), then we might say that the dorsal moving thingamabob is a weapons module that opens in the demonstrated fashion for loading and repairs. Thus, extending it would mean taking it offline.

OTOH, it wouldn't make much sense, symbolic or otherwise, to open each and every cargo hatch or impulse engine repair chute as "a gesture of surrender". So the Marauder may well have dozens of more moving parts elsewhere, if the Ferengi are so fond of those that they build an extending neck and talons and whatnot...

I'd make the ventrally deploying craft much flatter than shown, because there really is zero volume for anything else in the neck now...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bill Morris]

I'd make the ventrally deploying craft much flatter than shown, because there really is zero volume for anything else in the neck now...

Timo Saloniemi

That was my original plan. It does have a bit different ventral profile, but the craft was never actually designed or shown but could still look the same from the side. And you know how they tend to use the same model for ships of different sizes.

Regardless, I may still do that, which would mean designing it myself. Sounds like a canon violation.

However, it does fit in there, with room to spare. It just makes the cutaway look confusing, even if it's only shown as an outline. That being the case, and considering the Ferengi mindset, there's really no need for a lobeless version.

Besides, the large dropdown shuttle could conceivably serve as a single escape pod for the whole crew, and since the vault is right behind it, I assume it slides right in there, too.

 

[Saquist]

Infact that's probably why the Spirt of Oportunity is so big in the first place.
Almost a hundred meters.

 

[Maurice]

I believe DS9Sega was referring to this, basically:

...

Here's the D'Kora schematic with minor corrections and tweaks:

Um...instead of drawing the correct silhouette you're going to just put a label that says concave?

Gotta disagree with your rationale for the raider craft. While its profile is not known, its outline from below is, and does not at all match the shuttle you enlarged.

 

[Saquist]

I believe LCARS24 chose to leave that out for simplicity.
It can't be seen from the side view...that's a hidden view or a cross section view drawing. This drawing necessitates other Icons take priority of such a representation because it's a master systems display.

 

[Bill Morris]

I might as well delete the label CONCAVE UNDERSIDE, since that can't really be elucidated in a starboard cutaway.

About the Spirit of Opportunity, I know it has a different ventral profile. How ugly do you want it?

Another idea is about the computer cores--to call them "computer lobes" and give them a style like Ferengi heads or shuttles or Earth muffins. Tribbles?

 

[SonicRanger]

I presume you based the Ferengi Marauder cross-section off that horribly inaccurate Fact Files side view, yes? You really should see the side view in the Star Trek Encyclopedia, which matches the side view of the studio model quite well. Why not try to have the most accurate schematic possible?

 

[Bill Morris]

Well, my main task with this project is programming the LCARS system, but I also I write the documenation, Trek crosswords for the crossword server, and music, and also do some but not all of the artwork. Of the 40 Starfleet schematics, I only did about a third of them from scratch, and five other people did the others (according to my color and size specifications), which I do touch up as needed. This one was done by a regular contributor, and he also did a large version. I just made a few modifications and wrote an LCARS script file for it, which the LCARS library server reads to render the labels, brackets, etc.

I only have the 1994 version of the Star Trek Encyclopedia, which just has a small photo of this ship. But in the case of the Ambassador class I shunned the images on the Web available at that time and sketched out the much nicer outline in the Star Trek Encyclopedia, which now has been posted on The Drex Files.

So I haven't seen that version of the outline of this ship.

But I do want to get these thing as accurate as possible before including them in a future release of the LCARS software. That's why I come to Trek Tech with this stuff, and you guys have been very helpful. Thanks.

Is there an image file available I could see?

 

[SonicRanger]

^^^

Well, no, I'm not going to go through all the bother to scan the image and upload it because it wouldn't really matter -- the Encyclopedia side view matches the above photo of the studio model quite well, and the studio model is the closest you can get to the "true" appearance of the "real" ship. It looks, instead, like your regular contributer based this section off the erroneous Fact Files side view.

 

[Bill Morris]

I agree. I noticed the difference, too. And if I had done this myself from scratch I would have based it on that photo of the model I posted above but with the extended parts back in their normal positions. Right now I've got three other schematics that need fixing up, and I'm trying to get a new release of the whole package put together, which means a lot of last-minute checking and correcting of not just artwork, before I get too buried in work in September. But I may make that kind of radical change to this one if time permits.

 

[Timo]

A random idea: perhaps the reason for the strange neck-extending function is to be found in something more concrete than the abstract need to make a surrender gesture. Namely, perhaps it's something that is physically necessary for a cowardly retreat?

The slight back-and-forth neck movement is among the silliest "variable geometries" imaginable, seemingly serving no practical purpose. But the above posts point out how massive the Spirit of Opportunity craft (love the joke!) really is, and how difficult it might be to maneuver it in and out of the mothership. So perhaps the neck-extending movement is what is necessary for launching the giant daughtership? This would explain why the Ferengi performed this movement in "The Last Outpost" - in their utter panic, they attempted to evacuate their vessel and fly to safety in the auxiliary.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bill Morris]

Well, I did mention possible use as a whole-crew escape pod and loading the ship's vault into the thing.


Here's another crack at the Phoenix:

 

[Saquist]

A random idea: perhaps the reason for the strange neck-extending function is to be found in something more concrete than the abstract need to make a surrender gesture. Namely, perhaps it's something that is physically necessary for a cowardly retreat?

The slight back-and-forth neck movement is among the silliest "variable geometries" imaginable, seemingly serving no practical purpose. But the above posts point out how massive the Spirit of Opportunity craft (love the joke!) really is, and how difficult it might be to maneuver it in and out of the mothership. So perhaps the neck-extending movement is what is necessary for launching the giant daughtership? This would explain why the Ferengi performed this movement in "The Last Outpost" - in their utter panic, they attempted to evacuate their vessel and fly to safety in the auxiliary.

Timo Saloniemi

wow,
I'd go for that explanation...There would be simpler ways but why not. Perhaps an even larger function on top of that.

 

[Bill Morris]

Here's the revised Phoenix labeled:

Phoenix

And V'gr:

V'gr

 

[Saquist]

Here's the revised Phoenix labeled:

Phoenix

And V'gr:

V'gr

That is MUCH improved.
I'd go with it.