Two more LCARS schematics

[Maurice]

Well, you know I like to get things done and move on. Cochrane was probably the same way--just get up there and prove it can do warp 1 for a few seconds and worry about the amenities later, as long as has a strong sound system. I hope that's enought fuel back there for him to get back for reentry after a short burst at warp. What does it take, about 2 seconds at warp 1 to get farther out than the moon?

I find THIS PHOTO very revealing about the stowed state of the nacelles because you can clearly see the indentations for them and how far back they go.

 

[Search4]

Okay, i might be able to help with the geography a bit. If you're game, i can take a more detailed picture or two.

 

[Birdog]

My knowledge of Missles and Rockets is limited.
Ultimately I can only trust source material. It wouldn't suprise me if my thoughts on Rocket naming conventions are false. It wouldn't be the first time often what is logical is not what is.

I've had the same problem with other subjects so I feel your pain. The only reason I happen to know is I'm in the middle of teaching a class on rockets and have been doing some research lately.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Okay, i might be able to help with the geography a bit. If you're game, i can take a more detailed picture or two.

Is that the actual (miniaturized?) prop? If so; very, very cool. Much kudos to you, my good sir.
It's unfortunate the pictures are so heavily JPG compressed though; it's hard to make out details.

 

[Bill Morris]

Thanks for the pix, DS9Sega and Search4. Looks like I'll be modifying this schematic (once?) again.

 

[Search4]

You're welcome. I can get some additional detail if need be.

 

[Bill Morris]

Thanks, Search4. Of course, we would all love to see more, but if there is still information available that will help me get this schematic right, please. We've had all this discussion about parachutes, retro rockets, and antimatter. If you can shed light on any of that, it would be quite a contribution.

Hopefully, this one's okay:

 

[SonicRanger]

Looks too small. It's supposed to be about the same size as a Galaxy class.

 

[Bill Morris]

That's Andy Probert's stated length. I measured the width and height based on that, and Commander Valerie Archer told me the mass. I do remember that TNG first encounter, though.

 

[Maurice]

Thanks, Search4. Of course, we would all love to see more, but if there is still information available that will help me get this schematic right, please. We've had all this discussion about parachutes, retro rockets, and antimatter. If you can shed light on any of that, it would be quite a contribution.

Hopefully, this one's okay:

The bottom on the ship is concave. The grilles for the warp engines have clear line-of sight on each other; that's something Andy specifically told me he did. Also, is that Spirit of Opportunity the raider ship that should be docked in the underside of the forward hull? There's also that thing above the base of the neck that should rise up.

 

[Saquist]

Thanks, Search4. Of course, we would all love to see more, but if there is still information available that will help me get this schematic right, please. We've had all this discussion about parachutes, retro rockets, and antimatter. If you can shed light on any of that, it would be quite a contribution.

Hopefully, this one's okay:

It's an excellent production and thoroughly pleasant surprise.

Indeed. Hence my "rolleyes" smiley which suggests a fusion reactor or even a fission reactor would be much less problematic than an antimatter bottle, your assertions to the contrary.

I made no such assertations.
The implication belongs to you yourself.
To clarify I find the idea of antimatter containment at this point of tech history to be less reliable under reactionary conditions.

Not if you keep missing the point.

To miss it you would have had to have made one.
Or to have correctly conveyed it. I'm not sure of your sucess.

I have not been attempting to. Again, the intermix chamber is NOT the warp core, and impulse engines do not run on antimatter. Post-production editing had the intermix chamber aglow even in dry dock, and the "engine throbbing to thundering sound" effect was relegated, instead, to warp drive to avoid confusing the issue.

You have not been attempting to link the intermix to the impulse engines as a device being utilized by the impulse Drive? If you're not saying the intermix is not an impulse specific device then I have no reason to contradict this.

As far as the "intermix chamber is NOT the warp core,"
Never said it was. So that you comprehend with greater sucess: I said: "The intermix chamber is a warp drive system." I said nothing about it being the warp core.

If I were to take what you say about post production as truth...then you've still missed the point. The script direction, again, singles out the intermix at a relation channeling anti-matter. That it was glowing the whole time merely means the main power was indeed on-line. and why shouldn't it be...

This was done intentionally, with the intent of separating warp and impulse drive systems.

How bizarre to attempt to separate to systems which in designed are combined.

And I'll remind you that as we learned in "Coming of Age," there is only one intermix ratio where antimatter is concerned 1:1. Since we have heard other intermix ratios quoted over the years, we can directly infer from this that the intermix chamber handles plasma from other sources other than antimatter reactors.

There is no need for reminder, new type alpha.
The need which you haven't addressed is one of elaboration.

 

[Bill Morris]

The bottom on the ship is concave. The grilles for the warp engines have clear line-of sight on each other; that's something Andy specifically told me he did. Also, is that Spirit of Opportunity the raider ship that should be docked in the underside of the forward hull? There's also that thing above the base of the neck that should rise up.

This upskirt shot from Sirius Replicas clearifies DS9Sega's point about the warp-field grilles and shows the Spirit of Opportunity docked like the Aerowing of the Intrepid classs, Waverider of the Nova class, or captains yachts of various Starfleet ships. Showing it within the cutaway is too confusing to the eye, either as depicted or in outline form. Maybe I should add two arrows in the figure. I was hoping the term "drop-launched" in the label would suffice.

I'm not sure what you mean about the thing at the base of the neck. I should look into that.

Extending the neck is a gesture of surrender, but that capability might have some maintenance or loading purpose, as well.

 

[Search4]

LCARS - of course, the model doesn't exactly have functional labels... its not like there is an antimatter core (or fusion) in there... but i'll check some sources and take a few close-in shots for you. I can confirm the geometry of the fold-back nacelles pretty definitively.

 

[Bill Morris]

Of course. Thanks. I can see from those photos that I made the nacelles a little too fat, which led to the notion that there's no room for anything between them when folded. I think I can pretty much get it right now referring to your second photo.

Oh, and I transposed the beam and width of the Ferengi marauder at the bottom of the figure. Easy to correct--Beam: 323.1, Height: 64.3.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

As far as the "intermix chamber is NOT the warp core,"
Never said it was. So that you comprehend with greater sucess: I said: "The intermix chamber is a warp drive system."

Yeah, I caught that. The problem with this is we've seen it used for impulse engines as well, and the other day I was surprised to discover it also seems to be a component of the Type-7 shuttlecraft if the dialog in "Coming of Age" is any indication (the part where Jake unbalances his main reactor and the impulse engine stalls). Probably this is another application of an intermix chamber being used by BOTH drive systems.

The script direction, again, singles out the intermix at a relation channeling anti-matter. That it was glowing the whole time merely means the main power was indeed on-line. and why shouldn't it be...

Because antimatter is only used for warp drive, for reasons that should be somewhat obvious.

There is no need for reminder, new type alpha.
The need which you haven't addressed is one of elaboration.

Elaborating what? It's clear here that the intermix chamber isn't a warp drive system. A power system, sure, but not inextricably linked to antimatter OR warp drive. That Phoenix is equipped with such a device therefore tells you nothing whatsoever about what powers it, except that whatever it is, it's VERY powerful.

 

[Saquist]

As far as the "intermix chamber is NOT the warp core,"
Never said it was. So that you comprehend with greater sucess: I said: "The intermix chamber is a warp drive system."

Yeah, I caught that. The problem with this is we've seen it used for impulse engines as well, and the other day I was surprised to discover it also seems to be a component of the Type-7 shuttlecraft if the dialog in "Coming of Age" is any indication (the part where Jake unbalances his main reactor and the impulse engine stalls). Probably this is another application of an intermix chamber being used by BOTH drive systems.

I'm sorry, new type alpha, I took the time to review the script on this website:http://www.twiztv.com/scripts/nextgeneration/season1/tng-119.txt

I saw no refrence to the intermix chamber in the script for a type seven shuttle craft. Perhaps this was come computer dialogue that didn't make it into written form? I also could not find the device mentioned in Coming of Age TNG in reference to a type seven shuttle craft. I must not be understanding you.

But if this is true, as the only would be source of intermix-impulse relation, would blow my argument wide open.

Because antimatter is only used for warp drive, for reasons that should be somewhat obvious.

Exactlly. So since the script says the intermix was channeling antimatter and that thus powered the impulse engines for warp .5 then the intermix you admit is not an impulse system otherwise it wouldn't be channeling antimatter.

Then again this direction didn't make it into canon.
But I don't think it's necessary but then again I can't quite find how this configuration would work.

Elaborating what? It's clear here that the intermix chamber isn't a warp drive system. A power system, sure, but not inextricably linked to antimatter OR warp drive. That Phoenix is equipped with such a device therefore tells you nothing whatsoever about what powers it, except that whatever it is, it's VERY powerful.

It's your argument new type alpha and it's a bit vague. I can't tell you what to elaborate on, only that it's clearly in short supply.

Note:
I did not say the intermix chamber was a was a warp drive system.
I said that the intermix was part of a warp drive system and has only be related to a warp drive system.

 

[Timo]

Regarding the Marauder's moving, extending or contracting bits, I'd like to think that the ship has been designed for capacity of first confronting and defeating, then exploiting the opponent. Say, those grabber things at the tips of the warp horseshoe are really awkwardly placed for grabbing anything - but what if, after immobilizing the victim, the Marauder more or less falls into pieces, unfolds into a complex scaffolding that embraces and consumes the victim? The neck might extend far more than was shown in the episode or built into the photographic model, for example. The top deck could also not only extend, but actually detach. Perhaps, after a battle, the Marauder would hold the victim sideways on the two massive clamps, while its neck and other dangly bits snaked around and through the victim, loosening and processing anything and everything of value.

Dunno. Moving parts in a spacecraft only seem to make sense when their movement alters the mode of operation of the vehicle in some drastic manner. Otherwise, the vehicle should be built in the optimal confrontation to begin with, and remain solid, rigid and strong throughout the operation.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bill Morris]

Or maybe it's to be able to load any latinum-containing asteroids up to a certain size they find into large holds.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Because antimatter is only used for warp drive, for reasons that should be somewhat obvious.

Exactlly. So since the script says the intermix was channeling antimatter

I would prefer you make up your mind whether or not to consider cues from the script as canon. In this case, since we already know impulse engines don't run on antimatter, the intermix chamber isn't channeling it.

On the other hand, if we for some reason assume these impulse engines DO run on antimatter, then the only thing we could take away from this is the fact that the intermix chamber is indeed a power system and not an integral component of warp drive (seeing how the ship isn't using its warp drive in this scene). Then the question of "Why would they be channeling antimatter drive plasma to the impulse engines?" would be subject for totally different discussion.

It's your argument new type alpha and it's a bit vague. I can't tell you what to elaborate on, only that it's clearly in short supply.

Are you daft? YOU'RE the one who asked for elaboration. Is there something you want elaborated ON, or are you just being argumentative?

I did not say the intermix chamber was a was a warp drive system.
I said that the intermix was part of a warp drive system and has only be related to a warp drive system.

Then you are incorrect in both cases, since here we see the intermix chamber being related to the impulse engine and NOT to the warp drive.

 

[Saquist]

I would prefer you make up your mind whether or not to consider cues from the script as canon. In this case, since we already know impulse engines don't run on antimatter, the intermix chamber isn't channeling it.

You must pay close attention. I have not wavered. Script is not canon. That doesn't mean that the script, the TNG tech manual, the DS9 tech manual and other non canon sources are not admissible in the discussion.

As you have relied on these non canon sources far more heavily than I offered this as evidence that you obvious have a conflict in non canon sources.

On the other hand, if we for some reason assume these impulse engines DO run on antimatter, then the only thing we could take away from this is the fact that the intermix chamber is indeed a power system and not an integral component of warp drive (seeing how the ship isn't using its warp drive in this scene). Then the question of "Why would they be channeling antimatter drive plasma to the impulse engines?" would be subject for totally different discussion.

Why do would you assume the impulse engines run on antimatter as a result of the script language?

Are you daft? YOU'RE the one who asked for elaboration. Is there something you want elaborated ON, or are you just being argumentative?

Daft.
insane, mad; silly; stupid

Negative, new type alpha this is rather how I have considered many of your responses. I didn't understand you argument or it's value. It's your argument, it's up to you to make it understandable. It's not up to me to make sense of your nonsequiturs. (percieved)

Then you are incorrect in both cases, since here we see the intermix chamber being related to the impulse engine and NOT to the warp drive.

False: The intermrix was part of a impulse/M/AR powersystem.
The script which you find valid as canon (presumably) clues it with antimatter functions which is definitely M/AR.

You have to do much better than this.
The combination drive doesn't vindicate you claims it makes it's vague.
I haven't even seen a return on this claim that TNG Coming of Age Type 7 Shuttle had any reference to an intermix. Yes, your thoughts here do appear to be complete madness and precarious. I don't normally refer to such attitudes of ridicule but you certainly paved the way.