Third in Command

[Red Ranger]

It's clear that TNG learned from TOS's mistake. The chain of command was clearly established early on in that show: Picard (captain), Riker (first officer), then Data (second officer). After that, the chain of command gets a little fuzzier.

And in that show's first season, Picard left the ship under the command of Geordi in The Arsenal of Freedom. Geordi also refused to relinquish his command to an officer who outranked him, Lt. Logan, saying the only officers who could relieve him were Picard or Riker.

I can think of one ep in TOS where it's clearly established that the chain of command is Kirk, then Spock, then Scotty. In Let That Be Your Last Battlefield, those three, in that order, are required to authorize the self-destruct sequence. (Again, it was better in TNG when it only required the captain and first officer.)

Red Ranger

 

[guardian]

I always felt it should have been Sulu and i'm glad they bumped Scotty back in TFF. I know doohan was a more likeable/acceptable character in 1960s america, but they had established sulu as third and should have kept it.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Enterprise did it exactly the same way.

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

Enterprise did it exactly the same way.

Did what exactly the same way?

 

[LeadHead]

^ I think he means that the third in command was the chief engineer.

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

Except that Sulu was clearly in charge throughout most of season 1 and then it changed. Is that how it went on Enterprise? Somebody seeming to have the job and then it being given to the actor with the most charisma---i mean the highest ranking officer.

I think the turning point was Taste of Armageddon. Takei had the week off and Doohan really stole the show with all his arguing with Fox & Anon 7 and after that it just seemed they wanted him to be on the bridge all the time except when their was a specific duty to perform down below.

Lucky for Takei, Doohan had off in Errand....as that was his last high-profile command episode.

Did Sulu ever take command during a Kirk/spock away mission again?

 

[JB2005]

^ I think he means that the third in command was the chief engineer.

Tucker was originally first officer, which is something i thought they should have kept...would have created a whole different dynamic. But this is neither the place nor the time!

Seems that Scott would have been third in command in terms of ranking hierarchy, but in terms of convenience, Scott in the Engine Room v Sulu on the bridge...

 

[Red Ranger]

Except that Sulu was clearly in charge throughout most of season 1 and then it changed. Is that how it went on Enterprise? Somebody seeming to have the job and then it being given to the actor with the most charisma---i mean the highest ranking officer.

I think the turning point was Taste of Armageddon. Takei had the week off and Doohan really stole the show with all his arguing with Fox & Anon 7 and after that it just seemed they wanted him to be on the bridge all the time except when their was a specific duty to perform down below.

Lucky for Takei, Doohan had off in Errand....as that was his last high-profile command episode.

Did Sulu ever take command during a Kirk/spock away mission again?

The only other time it seemed like Sulu was in charge was in the season two ep, The Omega Glory. Captain Tracy tells Captain Kirk to call the ship and have them beam down 100 phaser power packs. Sulu is leaning over Uhura's station and realizes something is wrong, so he doesn't accede to Kirk's order, asking if he needs help. -- RR

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

^^Great catch!!

That was a good one for him. I think Doohan was not in that episode. Lucky for Takei in that case.

Takei's role was reduced greatly after season 1.

I believe that sulu was on more landing parties in season1 than in season 2 & 3 combined.

 

[EnsignHarper]

^^Great catch!!

That was a good one for him. I think Doohan was not in that episode. Lucky for Takei in that case.

Takei's role was reduced greatly after season 1.

I believe that sulu was on more landing parties in season1 than in season 2 & 3 combined.

Going off to do The Green Berets with John Wayne hurt him a LOT, as more than a couple of his good roles got switched to Chekov, due to him not being there...

 

[EnsignHarper]

Except that Sulu was clearly in charge throughout most of season 1 and then it changed. Is that how it went on Enterprise? Somebody seeming to have the job and then it being given to the actor with the most charisma---i mean the highest ranking officer.

I think the turning point was Taste of Armageddon. Takei had the week off and Doohan really stole the show with all his arguing with Fox & Anon 7 and after that it just seemed they wanted him to be on the bridge all the time except when their was a specific duty to perform down below.

Lucky for Takei, Doohan had off in Errand....as that was his last high-profile command episode.

Did Sulu ever take command during a Kirk/spock away mission again?

Like I said, I think Gene Coon had a lot to do with that - Scotty, in general, got a lot more to do after Coon became the line producer.

 

[Red Ranger]

^^Great catch!!

That was a good one for him. I think Doohan was not in that episode. Lucky for Takei in that case.

Takei's role was reduced greatly after season 1.

I believe that sulu was on more landing parties in season1 than in season 2 & 3 combined.

Going off to do The Green Berets with John Wayne hurt him a LOT, as more than a couple of his good roles got switched to Chekov, due to him not being there...

Most notably, it most likely would've been Sulu who got Chekov's lines in The Trouble With Tribbles. Except for all the Russian inwention lines! -- RR

 

[Botany Bay]

Except that Sulu was clearly in charge throughout most of season 1 and then it changed. Is that how it went on Enterprise? Somebody seeming to have the job and then it being given to the actor with the most charisma---i mean the highest ranking officer.

I think the turning point was Taste of Armageddon. Takei had the week off and Doohan really stole the show with all his arguing with Fox & Anon 7 and after that it just seemed they wanted him to be on the bridge all the time except when their was a specific duty to perform down below.

Lucky for Takei, Doohan had off in Errand....as that was his last high-profile command episode.

Did Sulu ever take command during a Kirk/spock away mission again?

Like I said, I think Gene Coon had a lot to do with that - Scotty, in general, got a lot more to do after Coon became the line producer.

That's the way I see it too. Coon was a fan of Doohan/Scotty possibly because of his work in Taste of Armageddon. After that episode, Sulu's role was reduced to accomodate Scotty, and later Chekov. In fact, I think Takei was a bit lucky to be invited back late in Season 2 after his long absence, given the budget problems the show faced by that point.

Sulu had one last shot at the command chair in Spock's Brain.

 

[milo bloom]

I'm surprised one of the Navy vets hasn't popped in here yet, I seem to recall in previous incarnations of this topic they point out that modern submarine captains hold the equivalent of doctorates or something in nuclear engineering and such. This would certainly give more weight to the idea of Scotty being second officer in the series original run. Also, the fact that he's not always on the bridge is good in case something happens to all the senior staff on the bridge, he can assume command from auxiliary control (non-canon, but the novel Prime Directive uses this idea sorta)

Besides, I have a fridge magnet with Kirk, Spock and Scotty pointing their phasers at something just behind the camera, and to me it looks like a publicity shot showing Commanding Officer, First Officer and Second Officer, and that's canon enough for me

 

[Gary7]

"like in that TNG episode where Troi ends up in charge of the bridge (I think the ep was 'Disaster')."

Haven't seen that one, but if troi ends up in command I'd say the ep name is appropriate :3

Trois, mademoiselle?

 

[Gary7]

Scotty was definitely a senior officer to Sulu. And yes, although his primary position is in engineering, he has the freedom to station himself on the bridge when he deems appropriate or necessary.

Kirk may hand off command to Sulu, but if Scotty were to come to the bridge with no pressing need to be in engineering, he could assume command from Sulu without any problems--Sulu would default to the superior officer.

 

[Orcus]

So... who was last in command?

 

[Pauln6]

It was more frustrating that Uhura wasn't ever given command. She was command trained (wore a yellow uniform early on) but they drafted in the assistant chief engineer instead. Not surprising in the sixties but annoying that this was never rectified later, including in the new film where 17-year old Ensign Chekov is given command instead! Ouch.

 

[Anticitizen]

Maybe she just didn't want it. Not everybody is gunning for the Captain's chair.

 

[Wingsley]

Does this make Chekov "Second Officer" or just the guy taking the "Con"?

It is the Captain's prerogative to assign command of the Bridge to his officer of choice while he must leave to attend to other things. And if a superior officer arrives on the Bridge and decides to countermand the Appointee's orders (Commodore Decker in "The Doomsday Machine", Lt. Cdr. Logan in TNG's "Arsenal of Freedom") the challenging officer can make a challenge, but only at the risk of being later overturned by the Captain.