What's with The Galileo Seven?

[ClayinCA]

Umm, why do you people think Spock had done no command jobs before this shuttle sortie? Nothing of the sort is actually said in the episode.

All we have is a remark from McCoy: "It's your big chance". Spock is beduffled as to what McCoy might mean, so the Doctor explains that Spock always wanted to lead by logic: "You've never voiced it, but you've always thought that logic was the best basis on which to build command. Am I right?"

So all we learn here is that, as far as McCoy knows, Spock has never before been able to conduct a leadership task by using pure logic as the basis. Which means he could have performed lots of leadership tasks, only he had to follow illogical human customs and take into consideration illogical human sensibilities in those tasks. Now he is isolated from the rest of Starfleet, and can finally do things his own way. Which, as we learn, ain't exactly the best possible one.

McCoy never claims Spock didn't have prior command experience, and Spock never alludes to this, either. None of the bit players dare suggest that Spock would be a greenhorn, either. So there really isn't any dilemma on Spock's putative lack of command precedent, not if we go only by the material given in the episode.

Timo Saloniemi

Actually toward the end of the Episode while the shuttle was in the decaying orbit, McCoy says something to the effect of "so ends your first command."

And Spock not only doesn't contradict this, he outright agrees with McCoy:

McCoy: Well, Mr. Spock, so ends your first command.
Spock: ...Yes. My first command.

That's pretty unequivocal.

 

[Timo]

...So we're back to relying on explanations of the vein "Perhaps he mostly did Sciences and only accidentally stumbled on XO responsibilities at this late point of his career". Too bad, but not completely implausible as such.

Then again, in "Where No Man" Spock seems to wear command colors and perform XO duties already, making it less likely that he was a meek geek from the Science Dept until just before TOS and never did any serious commanding.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captain Robert April]

"First command" as in he's, essentially, in command of his own ship, with no backup of the captain overriding him or being able to just beam up and out of the situation. Big difference than being in charge of the landing party, or minding the bridge until the captain returns.

It's quite possible that this was the first time Spock had been really in command.

 

[Timo]

And McCoy never was the guy to be trusted with literal truths. That Spock "agrees" with him in the end could be taken as sign of him resigning to the illogical and inaccurate human ways, seeing how the Vulcan approach had failed him and his crew.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Basil]

"First command" as in he's, essentially, in command of his own ship, with no backup of the captain overriding him or being able to just beam up and out of the situation. Big difference than being in charge of the landing party, or minding the bridge until the captain returns.

It's quite possible that this was the first time Spock had been really in command.

That makes sense given we've been shown little or nothing in the character of Spock -- even mirror Spock -- that suggests he sought command or had any ambition for it. Like Riker, he may have preferred to stay in a subordinate role, but because of his gifts, been promoted through the ranks and given dual responsibilities, preferring science blue over command "gold." And it's further supported by when he does become captain it is in the role of teacher rather than line officer, a fitting position for an intellectual in a paramilitary organization.

Along the same lines, was Scotty or McCoy ever given command of anything? Scotty presumably is the second officer and though McCoy runs the sick bay (the way Spock presumably runs sciences) and has been on expeditions, do either men have actual command experience outside of taking over temporarily when Kirk or Spock are gone?

 

[Neopeius]

McCoy was never given command of anything, a position for which is he is not at all qualified. Scotty has been seen in command, particularly after the 1st season. Before that, Sulu often had the center seat. I've never quite figured out the rationale for that.

 

[Doug Otte]

McCoy was never given command of anything, a position for which is he is not at all qualified. Scotty has been seen in command, particularly after the 1st season. Before that, Sulu often had the center seat. I've never quite figured out the rationale for that.

That one always puzzled me, too. Did we ever see Sulu in command after Errand of Mercy?

Edit: other than mirror Sulu, of course.

Doug

 

[RobertScorpio]

Why exactly was Dr. McCoy, Scotty and some random Yeoman on that shuttle in the first place? They were studying a quazar. Indeed, with the exception of Spock there does not seem to be a good reason for any of those people to be there.

As an Army veteran, let me assure you that sometimes the "duty roster" makes no sense at all. They need a certain member from each department on the mission and you go. Boma seems to be an expert on quasars (he's the first to figure out why the shuttle was affected the way it was). The others probably had various duties assigned; to gather data in various categories.

On top of that, ahy exactly did they send a shuttle into that mess in the first place? The Enterprise seemed to go in there without much difficulty.

That's the episode "hook". The quasar affected the shuttle and the ship's sensors in a way that was unexpected.

Then of course there is the unsusally hostile attitude toward Spock. Spock aslo seemed a bit out of character (he has never had difficulty shooting hostiles in the past...why now?).

At this early stage in the series' life, the creators were still trying to develop and introduce the Spock character and Vulcan peculiarities to the audience. His hesitancy to kill (or stun?) the ape-men is supposed to show his respect for all life-forms. The rest of the crew's animosity towards Spock grows out of this.

That being said, the rest of the crew was way, waaay out of line in their insubordination towards Spock, their commanding officer. There should have been some "busts" or even courts-martial when they returned to the ship.

I've always liked this episode, with one exception; the ape-men subplot should have been re-written, or at least they should not have been shown on-screen. Anyone who thinks the Gorn looked phoney should watch this episode. The Gorn is a freakin' work of genius compared to these carpet-covered stuntmen.

Retired Navy vet here. And you are totally correct about duty rosters, at times, not making any since at all!!!...

I like this episode. Just watched it last weekend with my son and it had him on pins and needles. McCoy and the others are really out of control here. Only Scotty comes through as a real 'salty' here. The scene when Boma flips, Scotty actually is prepared to defend Spock. I gained respect for Scotty there...

Good episode..it entertained which..which is more than I can say for half of the boring, plodding, modern TREK episodes.

Rob

 

[Captain Robert April]

There's also the aspect, one that JJ apparently overlook, that Spock never took the Kobayashi Maru test, which is presumably a part of command training (I think it's also something that would more likely be a graduate level class, like Lieutenant Saavik would take, rather than a cadet).

His time with the Galileo was probably the closest he ever got, at least until that fateful day when he decided it was time to try to manually hotwire the warp drive.

 

[Destructor]

I always loved this episode, because Spock stays so true to his logical, unemotional core. I thought it was quite bold- they committed themselves to his character in a way that the TNG writers were almost never able to do with Data. They made him what an unfeeling person would really be- a bastard. Bravo.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Starfleet would later send Picard, Worf and Dr. Crusher on a special forces mission. Obviously there are personel decisions made in the 23rd+ Century that our contemporary logic just can't grasp yet.

 

[Anticitizen]

I always loved this episode, because Spock stays so true to his logical, unemotional core. I thought it was quite bold- they committed themselves to his character in a way that the TNG writers were almost never able to do with Data. They made him what an unfeeling person would really be- a bastard. Bravo.

Roger that! Search Youtube for 'Never Argue With a Vulcan' for a great montage of clips of Spock being a dick

(in a very logical way, naturally.)

 

[Timo]

There's also the aspect, one that JJ apparently overlook, that Spock never took the Kobayashi Maru test, which is presumably a part of command training (I think it's also something that would more likely be a graduate level class, like Lieutenant Saavik would take, rather than a cadet).

One might wiggle through this by saying that Spock indeed never took the test even though he was one of the instructors giving it - or more specifically, the geek instructor who programmed it so that more conventional officer material could use it to teach more command officer material.

Also, the test might be something one takes in order to get clearance to proceed along the command path - no matter at which point of one's career one wants to make this choice of path. PineKirk would be driven enough that he'd take it pregrad, while ShatKirk would perhaps take it after graduation, just like a coolish and calculatingish (half-)Vulcan would. Some others might upgrade their studies at a fairly late point - perhaps Crusher took a similar test to become a redshirt for "AGT..", or perhaps the test she and Troi took for their qualification to stand bridge watches was for its part the standard latecomer version of the no-win scenario.

Spock might have been expected to take the test at some point, now that circumstances had pushed him into an XO position, but it might still be that he had been able to postpone it until ST2:TWoK and perhaps beyond. His rank of Captain might not have been related to starship CO duty, but to his merits as an instructor... Being skipper to a training ship might not qualify "for real". Or something.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Botany Bay]

McCoy was never given command of anything, a position for which is he is not at all qualified. Scotty has been seen in command, particularly after the 1st season. Before that, Sulu often had the center seat. I've never quite figured out the rationale for that.

That one always puzzled me, too. Did we ever see Sulu in command after Errand of Mercy?

Edit: other than mirror Sulu, of course.

Doug

I'm pretty sure he took command in Spock's Brain (when Scotty was unavailable thanks to landing party duty).

I always figured Scotty (and Doohan) was obviously a favourite of Gene Coon - he got to take the centre seat ahead of Sulu at every opportunity when it could have gone either way from mid-season 1 when Coon was in charge.

 

[RobertScorpio]

There's also the aspect, one that JJ apparently overlook, that Spock never took the Kobayashi Maru test, which is presumably a part of command training (I think it's also something that would more likely be a graduate level class, like Lieutenant Saavik would take, rather than a cadet).

His time with the Galileo was probably the closest he ever got, at least until that fateful day when he decided it was time to try to manually hotwire the warp drive.

I dont remember Spock saying he took the test in the new movie. So I'm not sure what you think JJ over looked. He ran the test, but I don't think its ever implied he took it.

Rob

 

[Rackon]

There's also the aspect, one that JJ apparently overlook, that Spock never took the Kobayashi Maru test, which is presumably a part of command training (I think it's also something that would more likely be a graduate level class, like Lieutenant Saavik would take, rather than a cadet).

His time with the Galileo was probably the closest he ever got, at least until that fateful day when he decided it was time to try to manually hotwire the warp drive.

I dont remember Spock saying he took the test in the new movie. So I'm not sure what you think JJ over looked. He ran the test, but I don't think its ever implied he took it.

Rob

He designed and wrote the program for the test, yep. Also, Spock may have been very curious about a cadet coming back for thirds, or perhaps he's part of the evaluation team. But I think Spock more than "runs" it.

My impression from the movie was that the KM test was given to senior cadets, and Kirk's class looks to be a graduating class. In the novel tie-in it's clear that Kirk has caught up to the rest of his class and that they're all a couple weeks from graudation and permanent assignment.

Interestingly, in the novel, Kirk thinks the cadet assembly has been called to announce the graduating honors list and he thinks he will be class valedictorian. Rude awakening

My biggest problem with the Galileo episode is the insubordination and disrespect shown to Spock as CO of the mission. I've never actually been in the service, but I don't think even TOS Spock should have or even would have put up with that amount of grossly outrageous misconduct. So for me, that aspect seems to ring false...and, of course, the apemen are...terrible . But I like other aspects of the ep a lot, and I thought Scotty deserved a commendation. From my dad's tales of military service, the actual make-up of the crew didn't seem unsusual or bother me at all.

Plus, I love Spock, and I got nearly a whole hour of him

 

[RobertScorpio]

There's also the aspect, one that JJ apparently overlook, that Spock never took the Kobayashi Maru test, which is presumably a part of command training (I think it's also something that would more likely be a graduate level class, like Lieutenant Saavik would take, rather than a cadet).

His time with the Galileo was probably the closest he ever got, at least until that fateful day when he decided it was time to try to manually hotwire the warp drive.

I dont remember Spock saying he took the test in the new movie. So I'm not sure what you think JJ over looked. He ran the test, but I don't think its ever implied he took it.

Rob

He designed and wrote the program for the test, yep. Also, Spock may have been very curious about a cadet coming back for thirds, or perhaps he's part of the evaluation team. But I think Spock more than "runs" it.

My impression from the movie was that the KM test was given to senior cadets, and Kirk's class looks to be a graduating class. In the novel tie-in it's clear that Kirk has caught up to the rest of his class and that they're all a couple weeks from graudation and permanent assignment.

Interestingly, in the novel, Kirk thinks the cadet assembly has been called to announce the graduating honors list and he thinks he will be class valedictorian. Rude awakening

My biggest problem with the Galileo episode is the insubordination and disrespect shown to Spock as CO of the mission. I've never actually been in the service, but I don't think even TOS Spock should have or even would have put up with that amount of grossly outrageous misconduct. So for me, that aspect seems to ring false...and, of course, the apemen are...terrible . But I like other aspects of the ep a lot, and I thought Scotty deserved a commendation. From my dad's tales of military service, the actual make-up of the crew didn't seem unsusual or bother me at all.

Plus, I love Spock, and I got nearly a whole hour of him

He may have designed it, wrote it..ect..but he never took it as an 'offical' act in his career I think. And he seems to have knowledge of Kirk's attempts in KHAN. So I could see him designing it, running it, but never being tested on it offically. Which makes his 'final solution' even more interesting in KHAN..

And as for Spocks treatment in Galeo? I totally agree. I was in the military. McCoy has always pushed the envelope with me. And here, in this episode, McCoy really loses my respect because he lets it happens, and even seems to cheer it on..where as Scotty sticks up for Spock...

Rob

 

[Timo]

My biggest problem with the Galileo episode is the insubordination and disrespect shown to Spock as CO of the mission.

Let's remember, though, that the purpose of the mission was scientific study of a really rare and obscure astronomical phenomenon (one that funnily enough was thought impossible in the 1960s but is now considered scientific fact). The blueshirt officers sent on the mission, that is, Boma and Gaetano, probably thus were highly specialized scientists - people used to arguing with their superiors, and unaccustomed to military discipline.

Starfleet ships and installations in the spinoffs are similarly populated with argumentative scientists who don't really think much of the hierarchy of the organization they serve.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[RobertScorpio]

My biggest problem with the Galileo episode is the insubordination and disrespect shown to Spock as CO of the mission.

Let's remember, though, that the purpose of the mission was scientific study of a really rare and obscure astronomical phenomenon (one that funnily enough was thought impossible in the 1960s but is now considered scientific fact). The blueshirt officers sent on the mission, that is, Boma and Gaetano, probably thus were highly specialized scientists - people used to arguing with their superiors, and unaccustomed to military discipline.

Starfleet ships and installations in the spinoffs are similarly populated with argumentative scientists who don't really think much of the hierarchy of the organization they serve.

Timo Saloniemi

Then they should allow the captain to spank all those (females of course) who break the rules and argue with their captain simply because they are elitist scientists with no regard for the chain of command!

The first time Jadzia or Ezri tried that stuff with me? I'd get my ping-pong paddle out and administer some corrective action (after making mini-skirts mandatory)

And if the men mouth off? I'd have them get spanked by Dr. Polaski...yikes.

Rob

 

[Mysterion]

McCoy was never given command of anything, a position for which is he is not at all qualified.

You should try and find a copy of Diane Duane's really fun novel Doctor's Orders where McCoy gets stuck with the "big chair". Don't want to spoil it by saying more.