phasers and all

[Omega_Glory]

And the stun setting in TOS was using a pulse, not a beam. Not to mention the phaser pulses in "Balance of Terror."

There is precedent in prior Trek for most of what people complain about in the new film.

If I remember right, the stun setting in TOS wasn't always a pulse, they had some beams too. The phasers used in BOT were ship mounted versions completely different than the hand units. Actually, one could make the case that the Enterprise had early pulse phasers before the Defiant got them in DS9.

There is precedent for some of what people complain about in the new film, but not all of it.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Why don't phasers vaporize stuff anymore?

I mean in the TV Series, and TNG, and even some DS9, they were vaporizing stuff left and right even with the type-1 phasers. Then somewhere through DS9, they stopped vaporizing stuff, even with phaser rifles they didn't vaporize things.

 

[jbrinegar]

I like the nuphasers. My little boy has the toy version and loves it.

 

[gimpy117]

I liked the beams more realistic but i'm okay with pulses...

I've always hated pulses. What's the point, they look like the move at about the speed of a paintball (250ish ft/s). I can dodge that easily.

The typical 9mm round flies at you at 1250 ft/s, a lot harder to dodge. 7.62 rounds are lobbed as close to 3000ft/s. No one is dodging this.

Phaser Beams *should* be close to the speed of light and the beam would be its own tracer so you could correct a bad aim almost immediately.

The tactical advantages would be huge with such a weapon.

I dunno those shots were moving pretty fast...

 

[Peter the Younger]

Why don't phasers vaporize stuff anymore?

I mean in the TV Series, and TNG, and even some DS9, they were vaporizing stuff left and right even with the type-1 phasers. Then somewhere through DS9, they stopped vaporizing stuff, even with phaser rifles they didn't vaporize things.

It's flashy and cool, but also inefficient. It's the 23rd/24th century equivalent of pumping six bullets into one opponent.

 

[GalaxyX]

Phasers don't move at the speed of light -- not even in TOS if you watch "Wink of an Eye." The TNG Tech Manual established, which later shows followed in the dialog, that phasers are beams of particles called nadions.

I remember the episode, and physics wise it doesn't make any sense. While it's true that a lot of energy particles don't move exactly at the speed of light, pretty much all of them move so close to it that it's a moot point. Even hypothetical "Nadions" would be subject to the same laws of physics as any other particles (except maybe tachyons)

And the stun setting in TOS was using a pulse, not a beam. Not to mention the phaser pulses in "Balance of Terror."
There is precedent in prior Trek for most of what people complain about in the new film.

I complain about the phasers in all Star Trek. Like I said before, TUC and Enterprise are practically the ONLY times that a phaser beam is shown somewhat realistically.

I like them. Lets be honest, the phasers in Star Trek never really worked for intense action which is why they started introducing the pulse rifles in First Contact and the Dominion War. They always used to move so slowly, like you could dodge them real good and it felt like there was 0 force behind them.

Exactly my point. You ever play any of the Mechwarrior games? If so, remember how most of them have laser and particle beam weapons that are basically instantaneous beams of light? That's what Trek Phasers should be like.

You would almost have a point if it wasn't for the fact that the military actively looks for different weapons to handle different jobs. I would bet solid money that if the military could roll all of its shotguns, M-4s, M203s, .50 cals and SAWs into one nice little multi setting package they would jump at the chance like theres no tomorrow. As a matter of fact, they regularly experiment with adding as much functionality and modifications to weapons as possible.

The Star Trek Phaser is the holy grail of the military. Capable of light/heavy stunning of a person, but highly destructive power when needed. It's like carrying a Taser, a Beretta 9mm, an M60, and a Javelin all in a handheld weapon.

Why don't phasers vaporize stuff anymore?
I mean in the TV Series, and TNG, and even some DS9, they were vaporizing stuff left and right even with the type-1 phasers. Then somewhere through DS9, they stopped vaporizing stuff, even with phaser rifles they didn't vaporize things.

I know in the shows this was done for dramatic effect, but it was a complete waste of energy. The amount of power needed to completely vaporize an adult human sized species is just crazy.

It's flashy and cool, but also inefficient. It's the 23rd/24th century equivalent of pumping six bullets into one opponent.

More like slapping a 75 round drum on an AK47 and unloading it all on one victim.

 

[Silversmok3]

A Phaser being a tool that can kill someone,it should be mean looking,and be simple to operate.The best weapon to use in battle is one that's simple and deadly,and that's what the nuPhaser is.

A simple 3/10s of a second flick between stun and kill is a lot better in a firefight than standing around punching in buttons.I understand the premise behind a multi-setting phaser,but it doesn't make sense in a fight.What would you rather have if you were patrolling Nasriyah,Iraq-a simple two-setting Glock 19,or a pocket-PC gun with a qwerty pad?

Its a drastic improvement over the 'cobra' style TNG hand phasers that looked like a TV remote from RadioShack.

You would almost have a point if it wasn't for the fact that the military actively looks for different weapons to handle different jobs. I would bet solid money that if the military could roll all of its shotguns, M-4s, M203s, .50 cals and SAWs into one nice little multi setting package they would jump at the chance like theres no tomorrow. As a matter of fact, they regularly experiment with adding as much functionality and modifications to weapons as possible.

If they could,yes.The trouble is that each time they add something to expand the weapons capability,it becomes 2X as hard to break down,3X as hard to carry(a hand cannon is no good if you can't aim it),and more of more import the more it does the easier it is to break.Can you imagine beaming into Neros 'cargo hold' with a TNG phaser?You'd be spending 3 minutes setting the phaser for kill,which wouldn't matter because you'd be toast in two.

The pulses make sense,because a fast moving pulse doesn't give away your position.A slow phaser beam (as seen on TV!) gives the bad guys a beeline of where to shoot back.

 

[clint g]

A Phaser being a tool that can kill someone,it should be mean looking,and be simple to operate.The best weapon to use in battle is one that's simple and deadly,and that's what the nuPhaser is.

A simple 3/10s of a second flick between stun and kill is a lot better in a firefight than standing around punching in buttons.I understand the premise behind a multi-setting phaser,but it doesn't make sense in a fight.What would you rather have if you were patrolling Nasriyah,Iraq-a simple two-setting Glock 19,or a pocket-PC gun with a qwerty pad?

Its a drastic improvement over the 'cobra' style TNG hand phasers that looked like a TV remote from RadioShack.

You would almost have a point if it wasn't for the fact that the military actively looks for different weapons to handle different jobs. I would bet solid money that if the military could roll all of its shotguns, M-4s, M203s, .50 cals and SAWs into one nice little multi setting package they would jump at the chance like theres no tomorrow. As a matter of fact, they regularly experiment with adding as much functionality and modifications to weapons as possible.

If they could,yes.The trouble is that each time they add something to expand the weapons capability,it becomes 2X as hard to break down,3X as hard to carry(a hand cannon is no good if you can't aim it),and more of more import the more it does the easier it is to break.Can you imagine beaming into Neros 'cargo hold' with a TNG phaser?You'd be spending 3 minutes setting the phaser for kill,which wouldn't matter because you'd be toast in two.

This is where training comes into play. First of all, beaming into Nero's ship without having your weapon set would be equal to going out on a patrol while not having your magazine in your weapon. Also, if you're breaking down your weapon in a situation where time is important than you're an idiot.

The pulses make sense,because a fast moving pulse doesn't give away your position.A slow phaser beam (as seen on TV!) gives the bad guys a beeline of where to shoot back.

They're both equally bad. If people can easily follow tracers and a muzzle flash back to the firer then there is no reason they couldn't fire the phaser bolt back. But either way, I don't care about if it fires a beam or a bolt, my post is about the practicality of a multi-function weapon. I doubt you will find to many soldiers out there who would complain about the benefits of a weapon that can both take down buildings as well as simply stun the enemy and yet at the same time can be used as a cutting tool. Each of those functions would be extremely useful. The only reason why the military hasn't fully embraced this idea is because current weapons systems are too heavy to integrate multiple functions into one weapon. That said, they're still trying and there are some examples of this that are currently in service (such as the M4 with M203 attachment)

 

[NiteTrek]

What would you rather have if you were patrolling Nasriyah,Iraq-a simple two-setting Glock 19,

I have a Glock 19 and it has only one setting.....BANG!

 

[L1A1 Rocker]

My only wish with the communicators is that, at some point, one of the characters would have taken the communicator "off speaker" and held it up like a cell phone.

. . .and said "can you hear me now?"

 

[Tarek71]

I would have preferred the TWOK phaser effects myself. They were easily the best effects I have seen for lasers/turbolasers/phasers/ray guns in any sci fi movie or show. I mean that aesthetically here and not in terms of "realism". If they were going to be more realistic I would think we should see more projectile weapons.

I remember a Warsie friend extolling the virtues of wanki-steel ("durasteel" or whatever they call that alloy they make AT-ATs out of) and I said "if the wankisteel is that uber, why dont they make artillery shells out of it and blow the thing to pieces?"

The real answer of course is the prediliction among writers of alot of sci fi for lasers and ray gun-like weapons. They are very "futuristic". But when you consider emerging rail gun and other technologies, and developments in materials science, its hard not to conclude that projectiles will be with us for a long time to come and are not likely to become ineffective for the forseeable future.

As for the communicators, I didnt see them closely enough. BUt I hope we can put aside the idea that the TOS communicator looks less advanced than a cell phone now.

The communicator doesnt need a cell phone tower. It has far greater range, isnt rendered useless by nearly as many obstructions, could be thicker because its em-shielded, etc.

I understand its a balance between looking cool, hip, and "futuristic" and rational functionality, but I would prefer they dont make the communicator a competition of coolness with cell phones without regard for other considerations. Like that lil tiny antenna thing being hugely more powerfuland capable that a whole network of huge cel phone towers.

 

[Rackon]

I like the new phasers a lot. I prefer the simple settings of "stun" and "kill," no more of that silly "remodulate the frequency" crap, and no more multitude of buttons that serve no purpose in a gunfight. The way they switch between settings is cool, and saves on derivative "set phasers on..." dialogue. I also think the pulses are more visually interesting than beams.

My only gripe would the new phasers is there really should be some kind of trigger guard (and a more obvious trigger, for that matter), and some kind of actual handgrip. As it is, it looks very hard to hold on to. I'd hate to be a security guard with sweaty hands.

Me too. Agree with that first paragrpah whole heartedly. I loved the new phasers, especially the sounds they made and the change in color. (Were those power up sounds too?) I thought they were way cool. And more realistic. I want one, and I've NEVER said that about a phaser.

Didn't look like to me anyone was having trouble holding on to them. Hmmm...must see XI again to check that out.

Moreover, I think there are lot more important elements to a Trek movie than the phasers.

Oh, and as a fan for 43 years, I have to say I also love the look of the NuEnterprise too, I dig the ample nacelles.

 

[starbuck]

Sure glad they never tried the velcro it the belts this time round

 

[JuanBolio]

I didn't really like the flip-barrel motion of the phasers, but I can live with it. The shape and finish is nice, and it still has the wheel on the back that lets you adjust power settings. As for pulses instead of beams, I'm sure that can be adjusted.

Tricorder was good, communicator was okay, though we didn't see much of it. Preferred the 2233 version.

 

[Hyperspace05]

Why don't phasers vaporize stuff anymore?

I mean in the TV Series, and TNG, and even some DS9, they were vaporizing stuff left and right even with the type-1 phasers. Then somewhere through DS9, they stopped vaporizing stuff, even with phaser rifles they didn't vaporize things.

Because they realized it was a stupid idea... I mean really, where does the vaporization stop? (Why not vaporizing everything the person is in contact with?) What happens to the matter? Why do ships phasers never vaporize other ships?

It's a stupid idea better left alone.

 

[Hyperspace05]

[oops - double post]

 

[JuanBolio]

Why don't phasers vaporize stuff anymore?

I mean in the TV Series, and TNG, and even some DS9, they were vaporizing stuff left and right even with the type-1 phasers. Then somewhere through DS9, they stopped vaporizing stuff, even with phaser rifles they didn't vaporize things.

Because they realized it was a stupid idea... I mean really, where does the vaporization stop? (Why not vaporizing everything the person is in contact with?) What happens to the matter? Why do ships phasers never vaporize other ships?

It's a stupid idea better left alone.

On the contrary, it made the weapons look advanced and powerful. You know you're in the future when you've got handguns that can level mountains.

 

[SonicRanger]

Why don't phasers vaporize stuff anymore?

I mean in the TV Series, and TNG, and even some DS9, they were vaporizing stuff left and right even with the type-1 phasers. Then somewhere through DS9, they stopped vaporizing stuff, even with phaser rifles they didn't vaporize things.

Because they realized it was a stupid idea... I mean really, where does the vaporization stop? (Why not vaporizing everything the person is in contact with?) What happens to the matter? Why do ships phasers never vaporize other ships?

It's a stupid idea better left alone.

On the contrary, it made the weapons look advanced and powerful. You know you're in the future when you've got handguns that can level mountains.

And that mere fact makes writing and filming a firefight with such weapons impossible.

 

[DonIago]

I seem to recall having read in some work of Trek lit that in-universe the 'vaporize' setting was removed because it made killing others too neat & tidy. I.e. Death should be something to be taken seriously, not just swept away.

 

[JuanBolio]

Because they realized it was a stupid idea... I mean really, where does the vaporization stop? (Why not vaporizing everything the person is in contact with?) What happens to the matter? Why do ships phasers never vaporize other ships?

It's a stupid idea better left alone.

On the contrary, it made the weapons look advanced and powerful. You know you're in the future when you've got handguns that can level mountains.

And that mere fact makes writing and filming a firefight with such weapons impossible.

No, you just have to re-think the firefight formula a bit and step outside of established norms. Oh yeah, and we'd get some jaw-droppingly violent visuals to boot. I don't see a downside.