Has George Samuel Kirk been Chucked?

[Brutal Strudel]

As in Chuck Cunningham, that is. In early episodes of Happy Days, Richie had an older brother named Chuck. As the show went on, the character disappeared, his elder brother duties taken over by an increasingly cuddly Fonz. By the time the show ended, it was as if he never was, with Howard Cunningham referring to the two wonderful children he and Marian had raised.

In Star Trek V, Kirk says "I lost a brother once" and elicits quizzical looks from McCoy and Spock--looks I took to mean "What brother?"--and follows it up with, "I was lucky to get him back." Some fans have tried to justify this a s a feint on Kirk's part, that he meant them to think he was talking about Sam when he really meant Spock. If so, that's a chilling thing for Kirk to say, as it implies that his biological brother, the man who saw him off on his five-year mission, meant nothing to him. More likely, Sam had slipped the minds of the film-makers.

Now, in the new Star Trek movie, we get what is supposedly a new reality that branches off from the Trek we knew at the precise moment when--sigh--

Spoiler: alternate time-line

Nero and the Narada come through the black hole and "kills" Kirk's father.

Apparently, in this time-line, Kirk is an only child. This would work, of course, with no need for further question if it weren't for the fact that Sam, as "played" by William Shatner with a moustache and greying temples, seems to be older than Kirk by a few years. In other words, he never existed even before the branching off point.

So, has he been Chucked?

 

[TIN_MAN]

Well, I thought some scenes were written and filmed that included George/Sam?

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

I remember hearing something about a line being dubbed over and the other kid in the Corvette scene that Jim passes by was originally supposed to be him.

Or that could just be a recently jossed fanon rumor, I'm not sure.

 

[Kelso]

In the novelization, "Johnny" was Jim's brother George. Though, I don't know whether it appeared that way in the script or if that was an addition by ADF.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

George was referenced in the script and evidently scenes were shot involving him.

Which indicates that he hasn't been chucked, at least not in the sense that the scenario actually constructed by the writers was intended to eliminate him.

 

[ST-One]

As a fan, I'm sorry that George junior was cut/removed from the film.
As someone who tries to understand how movies are supposed to work, I can understand it. Having another kid around in the little Kirk family would have lessened the emotional impact the whole Kelvin-sequence had to have.

 

[Phily B]

They didn't rule it out, he could still easily be there but I can't see any situation where he could be in the movie outside of that kid from the first scenes - seemed a bit odd that they didn't refer to him then. I mean, we know that his parents were in Starfleet and away on missions quite a lot, so he was likely with his uncle.

 

[Dick Whitman]

The new movie did not "Chuck" Sam but he was a long time ago. It was in STV as you say. Its funny I was just thinking about this and never thought of the obvious Chuck Cunningham comparison. Of course this could be undone if he is truly brought back. His scenes being cut and altered just continue the "Chuck" trend.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

George was referenced in the script and evidently scenes were shot involving him.

Which indicates that he hasn't been chucked, at least not in the sense that the scenario actually constructed by the writers was intended to eliminate him.

Interesting. Thanks, Dennis.

 

[Christopher]

Now, in the new Star Trek movie, we get what is supposedly a new reality that branches off from the Trek we knew at the precise moment when--sigh--

Spoiler: alternate time-line

Nero and the Narada come through the black hole and "kills" Kirk's father.

Apparently, in this time-line, Kirk is an only child. This would work, of course, with no need for further question if it weren't for the fact that Sam, as "played" by William Shatner with a moustache and greying temples, seems to be older than Kirk by a few years. In other words, he never existed even before the branching off point.

That doesn't follow. We only saw one scene of Kirk's childhood, and he wasn't at home, so there's no evidence that Sam didn't exist. In the Kelvin scenes, Sam could've been back home on Earth in the care of relatives. In the Corvette scene, Sam could've just been somewhere else. There's not a single reason to conclude that Sam didn't exist here, especially since he was actually included in the shooting script. He just didn't appear on camera or receive a mention.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

That's why I used the word "apparently" and I framed this as a question rather than a hard-and-fast observation.

 

[EnsignRicky]

Judging by how old his parents were shown to be when he was born, and the age difference between he and his brother depicted in TOS, His parent would have been in their very early teens when they had George. It does raise a question about this film beginning in the Original Timeline, since the math just doesn't add up when you think about it. Bottom line, for the purposes of this film, I vote chucked.

 

[Christopher]

Judging by how old his parents were shown to be when he was born, and the age difference between he and his brother depicted in TOS, His parent would have been in their very early teens when they had George. It does raise a question about this film beginning in the Original Timeline, since the math just doesn't add up when you think about it.

Chris Hemsworth is 25; Jennifer Morrison is 30. The child actor who was cast in the film as Sam (redubbed as "Johnny" when his main scene was cut from the film) is only three years older than the actor playing young Jim. It adds up fine to me.

True, Sam in "Operation Annihilate" did look more than three years older than Jim, with the grey hair. But some people go grey earlier than others. Kirk was 33 or 34 at the time, so Sam might've been 36-37, and a lot of men have grey hair at that age. Or possibly his ordeal with the flying pancake monsters caused him to go grey prematurely. In that case, Sam would've been 23-24 when he had his son Peter (since the actor playing Peter was 13 at the time). So it still adds up.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Why didn't they have Kirk call the hitch-hiker Sam anyway? Even w/o the extra scenes, it would have been a better Easter Egg than Delta Vega.

 

[ST-One]

Why didn't they have Kirk call the hitch-hiker Sam anyway? Even w/o the extra scenes, it would have been a better Easter Egg than Delta Vega.

Agreed.
That would have been nice.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

In Star Trek V, Kirk says "I lost a brother once" and elicits quizzical looks from McCoy and Spock--looks I took to mean "What brother?"--and follows it up with, "I was lucky to get him back." Some fans have tried to justify this a s a feint on Kirk's part, that he meant them to think he was talking about Sam when he really meant Spock. If so, that's a chilling thing for Kirk to say, as it implies that his biological brother, the man who saw him off on his five-year mission, meant nothing to him. More likely, Sam had slipped the minds of the film-makers.

I always saw that scene as a nod to Sam Kirk and never for a moment thought otherwise. And I don't feel that Kirk was saying his biological brother meant nothing to him, just that Spock was like a brother to him. The compliment to Spock doesn't necessarily imply a insult to Sam.

 

[Praetor]

Why didn't they have Kirk call the hitch-hiker Sam anyway? Even w/o the extra scenes, it would have been a better Easter Egg than Delta Vega.

Agreed.
That would have been nice.

Double agreed. What the heck was the point of redubbing his name as "Johnny"?

If they decided to show Sam in the later films, will we have to explain it away as being someone else in this movie? Or is "Johnny" a private joke along the lines of James R. Kirk?

 

[Christopher]

If they decided to show Sam in the later films, will we have to explain it away as being someone else in this movie? Or is "Johnny" a private joke along the lines of James R. Kirk?

Why should we have to? If Sam shows up, he'll be an adult, not a teenager, and will be played by a different actor. So there's no problem at all with Spencer Daniels' character being renamed "Johnny," since that actor wouldn't have returned anyway.

I agree it might've been a cute Easter egg if the kid walking along the road had been kept as Sam. On the other hand, those of us who caught the reference and didn't know about the deleted scene would probably be wondering why Sam was just walking along the road like that.

 

[Garibaldi O'brien]

I really thought that he called the kid on the side of the road "Georgie", and figured it was his older brother... Something else to try and notice when I go to IMAX showing three tonight.

It did take me two times to hear the tribble, and I still didn't see it.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

If they decided to show Sam in the later films, will we have to explain it away as being someone else in this movie? Or is "Johnny" a private joke along the lines of James R. Kirk?

Why should we have to? If Sam shows up, he'll be an adult, not a teenager, and will be played by a different actor. So there's no problem at all with Spencer Daniels' character being renamed "Johnny," since that actor wouldn't have returned anyway.

I agree it might've been a cute Easter egg if the kid walking along the road had been kept as Sam. On the other hand, those of us who caught the reference and didn't know about the deleted scene would probably be wondering why Sam was just walking along the road like that.

He wasn't just walking, he was hitchhiking, which suggests that both he and Jim were unhappy at home. Now why Jim didn't pick him up is another matter, though totally consistent with the selfish prick he seems to be elsewhere in the movie, like here, for instance:

Spoiler: Green Girl

GREEN GIRL BLUES​

There was a lot more material further explaining Kirk’s relationship with the hot green chick. Since she worked in the computer lab, Kirk was essentially sleeping with her to gain access to the simulation computer so he could cheat on the Kobyashi Maru. In a cut scene, Kirk tells her that if she gets an email from him while he’s taking the test, she should open it; she does, and it launches a virus which installs his cheat-patch.​

http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/trek-scribes-speak-complaints-addressed/​

Good thing they cut that.