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Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Aide?

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Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

First I will say that I enjoyed the movie, and I didn't have to down any Kool Aid. I particularly emjoyed the opening sequences with the Kelvin, and I thought the exterior of the Enterprise was a thing of beauty.

The movie did leave me a bit melancholy because it I felt that the old style of Trek story telling has been swept away and replaced with a modern sensibility...sorta "Trek is dead. Long live Trek." Although I am mourning the Trek bygone days, I think I am going to enjoy the new installments just as much...
Seconded.


I think you make some good points here. I too really liked the opening Kelvin scene quite a bit as it felt much more like the Trek I am used to and comfortable with. As the movie progressed, and it settled into more of a modern style of pacing, I was left wondering where the old style of Trek story telling was, and if we would ever see it again. I was also jarred when I realized that there was to be no attention paid to trying to "rectify" the timeline. I.e. this alternate timeline was the one we would follow from here on out.

I have been thinking about the movie non-stop since I came home from it last night. I have spent much of today reading this bbs (and others) and the memory alpha content on the new movie. I think that people on both sides of the fence need to be a little sensitive. I.e. People who really like the new movie shouldn't slam people who did not fall in love with a VERY different type of Star Trek right away. (I am still grappling with the timeline/alternate universe issue). On the other hand, it is a mistake for people who are wedded to the canon to rigidly cling to it and bash the new movie when, for all intents and purposes, and for better or for worse, the franchise has moved on.

I think that when I first came home from the film I was in a state of Trek-shock. I thought that TPTB were literally saying, "TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY never happened!" I have done some reading, especially Orci's interview over at Trekmovie.com, and now it seems that that is not what they were trying to do (somebody correct me here if I am wrong), but it is still hard for me to accept that we have likely seen the last of that timeline (which I have been watching, reading, and thinking about for DECADES).

I consider myself an open minded person, so I am willing to give the new trek a second look despite my concerns after a first viewing. Most of my initial impressions were negative. In a similar vein, I liked but did not love ENT or DS9 during their first runs despite waching them all the way through, but rewatching both shows on DVD gave me a new appreciation for how each one tried to take Trek in a new direction and, in their own ways, succeeded. So, for now I am trying to keep an open mind about this seismic shift in the trek world, and see how things shake out over time.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I don't understand how long time fans can view this latest movie and NOT be insulted.

Because it was actually a good movie.

Except for the glaring plot holes, flimsy plot in general, lack of real story, over-action based story, no use of intelligence by any of the characters to solve the trouble at hand...

Spock: We have to regroup.

Kirk: Fuck that, let's charge 'em.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I don't understand how long time fans can view this latest movie and NOT be insulted. Seriously. Because they had a cameo of a tribble, we're expected to swoon? There wasn't even a hint of moral understory. Especially after all the hype, I was completely depressed after seeing it.

I posted a review of my own on my blog: http://thirdcathode.blogspot.com/2009/05/movie-review-star-trek-2009.html

Since nearly everyone else seems to have loved the movie, I would like to hear from fans who had negative reactions as I did - why did no one else find the film insulting?


Take a look around, there are a good amount of people that felt 'insulted'
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

How could you feel insulted by a movie, I mean seriously.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

How could you feel insulted by a movie, I mean seriously.


I could be wrong, but I think that they mean insulted by the people who *made* the movie.

I still don't understand that. I mean, it's not as if they know these people personally and insult them in the movie in some way...

"Captain, a ship decloaking!"
"Open a -- YOU SUCK DISILLUSION FCK YOU -- channel!"

:D
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

Moral understories are overrated and not as important to "good Star Trek" as people seem to think, especially in the films -- for example, what was TWoK's moral message? What about FC?

Star Trek (especially TOS) is first and foremost a character-driven story, not a plot driven one. There certainly were some allegorical episodes, but even most of those allegories were simply a vehicle that allowed the characters to interact with each other.

This is what I've been thinking a lot recently. A lot of people seem to think that every single episode of TOS was brimming with social commentary. By my rough reckoning, episodes like "A Private Little War" are far outnumbered by stuff like "The Naked Time" and "Specter of the Gun".

Good Star Trek comes in many flavors, both the moralizing and fluffier varieties. Star Trek falls somewhere in between those two extremes and is really more concerned with themes of friendship and destiny than it is about making some particular grand statement about humanity.

Really, a statement like that is out of place in an origin story anyway. You want to say something about the characters first so you have a good foundation to do other stuff later.


Exactly. The way some fans are talking, you'd think that TOS was a weekly symposium on politics, sociology, current events, and the Prime Directive. Silly me, I remember lizard-men, salt vampires, green-skinned woman, Harry Mudd, and god-like aliens messing with humanity . . . you know, the fun stuff. Sure, there were some heavy-handed parables, too, but, as I argued earlier, does anyone really prefer "And Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" to "Amok Time" or "The Doomsday Machine"?

What are, by general acclamation, the two most popular TOS episodes?

"The City on the Edge of Forever"--a tragic love story with a time-travel twist.

"The Trouble with Tribbles"-a light-hearted romp with plenty of fun character bits.

To my mind, the new movie captures the heart and spirit of both episodes, perhaps even more so than some of the later tv series.

People are free to disagree, of course, but can we please put a stake through the idea that people that like the new movie aren't "real" Star Trek fans? I think that's what provoking a lot of the hostility.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I don't understand how long time fans can view this latest movie and NOT be insulted.

Because it was actually a good movie.

Except for the glaring plot holes, flimsy plot in general, lack of real story,

You just said the same thing three times...

over-action based story,
Wait, I thought it had "plot holes", was then a "flimsy plot", and finally lacked a plot all together. Now it's "over-action"-ed?

no use of intelligence by any of the characters to solve the trouble at hand...
Besides Kirk using deduction about the lightning storm to warn Pike of the trap, or Chekhov calculating an attack plan, or Kirk using the rifles to blow the drill, or Scotty figuring out how to outrun a freakin' black hole? You mean, besides those examples of used intelligence, and many more? Did we see the same flick?

Spock: We have to regroup.

Kirk: Fuck that, let's charge 'em.
I have to ask, how many episodes of the original TOS have you actually seen? That pretty much sums up their entire basic approach to the universe... :lol:
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

Its the Characters! Abrams and team pulled us out of the morass that has been the last decade plus of tired, forced humor as we tried to believe that these key 5 people with a combined age of 300 plus would still be serving on a ship together. He gave us the essence of the characters from our first meetings with them over 40 years ago. It was sooo nice to not have to think about the actors, but to focus on the characters again!
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

jj-koolaid-sm.jpg
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

Except for the glaring plot holes, flimsy plot in general, lack of real story, over-action based story, no use of intelligence by any of the characters to solve the trouble at hand...

Do you want help coming up with any more ways to say the exact same thing?
Yes, the plot was lightweight. That's true. But do you need to come up with multiple ways to say it again and again?

It also ignores the fact that the entire point of the film was to simply spend time getting reacquainted with characters we love and watch them interact with each other in new ways. By that count the film achieved exactly what it set out to do.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I've never drunk Kool Aid. But I'm sure Tang will have the same effect! :techman:
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I wasnt insulted by it, but I really didnt enjoy it that much also. I had a feeling of been there done that during the film. It really brought nothing new to the table.(If that even possible for Star Trek any longer) I honestly didnt go in with a bad attitude but I just didnt like it that much. Im glad others did enjoy it though and more power to them. Enjoy it while it lasts though because i doubt this will last beyond 4 films and probably only 1 more will be to most fans liking.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I've been downing that drink since 2005. (TYVM Lost) But its not Kool Aid. It's Slusho! It's fruity! Don't play down to me by saying I drink domesticated Kool Aid, blah. :D

slusho-enterprise-fronton-tsrimg.jpg
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I haven't seen the film, but I doubt very much it'll be 'good Trek' when I do see it.

-RAnthony


And yet you posted about it on blogs, and you're here with those of us who have, making a statement that has no basis in any kind of experience. Whether you like it or not, it's hard to take you seriously when you haven't even seen the film and are yet prepared to bash the hell out of it.

J.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

And yet you posted about it on blogs, and you're here with those of us who have, making a statement that has no basis in any kind of experience. Whether you like it or not, it's hard to take you seriously when you haven't even seen the film and are yet prepared to bash the hell out of it.
As usual, the slightest criticism is seen as 'bashing the hell' out of something. But, feel free to stake out your turf and defend it, like any fanatic is prone to do.

As the old saying goes Fool me Once, shame on you, Fool me Twice, shame on me (it's even in Trek; thanks Scotty) I've paid to see bad trek before, I'm not going to go out of my way this time.

I'll see it, but I'm not contributing to high first weekend numbers, and fighting all the mindless fans who like what Trek has turned into.

-RAnthony
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I don't understand how long time fans can view this latest movie and NOT be insulted. Seriously. Because they had a cameo of a tribble, we're expected to swoon? There wasn't even a hint of moral understory. Especially after all the hype, I was completely depressed after seeing it.

I posted a review of my own on my blog: http://thirdcathode.blogspot.com/2009/05/movie-review-star-trek-2009.html

Since nearly everyone else seems to have loved the movie, I would like to hear from fans who had negative reactions as I did - why did no one else find the film insulting?

You are not alone. But for now, our opinion is in the minority. I suspect when the hype is over the tide may change. But I'm with you. I suspect that the shinny things of the big budget, such as sets, special effects, etc... had their required effect, that is, the effect of distracting everyone. Also, fans were so starved for Trek they will, as you put it, "swallow" anything.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

No, you're not alone. One of my longest-standing friends in SF fandom down Illinois way is himself less than pleased with the movie, but we're keeping our disagreement on that issue civil enough.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I'll see it, but I'm not contributing to high first weekend numbers, and fighting all the mindless fans who like what Trek has turned into.

Thank god you're here, oh enlightened one!
 
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