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Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Aide?

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Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I also note the need among some people here to say, in effect, "It's popular (this weekend, anyway) so it must be good!"
Popular with audiences, as well as loved by critics. I mean, art is obviously a subjective thing. But there has to come a point where a person says "since this film is loved by so many, it must be a good film that just doesn't click with me".

.

So your opinion comes down to

"at some point, popularity makes quality"
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

With respect to all opinions, yada yada yada, my big problem with the naysayers is that they have to believe that there was a better Trek movie than this put on the screen somewhere - better more solid plot, pacing, effects, action, acting, story, humor etc. If there was, I must have missed it, although I've hungrily consumed Trek for 40 years now. The only other answer is that they have this perfect Trek movie in their heads, and that is where they view it and judge all other Trek by. Well, good for them and their head movie, unfortunately I'm stuck with what's been put on screen. And JJ put something on screen that's better than what I've seen before.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

ooooh. i get it. you must have drank the other kool aid. yeah, its bad. you die now.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I am on Dayton's side and I see where he is coming from.

With that said, I've always thought that the best of Star Trek is seen in series rather than movies for the character development and weekly well written Sci-fi stories. After Trek died after Voyager, I continued on with "New Frontier" the next new Trek for me.

Even though I am against the concept behind this movie, it will be well worth it if this movie generates enough interest to create another Star Trek series (hopefully not a reboot TOS series).
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

What a sad, sad world you must live in, to be devoid of surprise like that (I'm not even attempting sarcasm--it is actually a sad thing). It also explains much of your comments.

What is wrong with not enjoying surprises?

That is hardly an illegitimate viewpoint.
You're entitled to that approach. It remains a sad way to live.

You have evidence to support that position or is it mere opinion?

As for some of the other posts, I've never claimed that people who like the movie are delusional.

I just think the reasons they like it have little to do with the actual quality of the movie or how it fits into the Trek Universe.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

Considering you haven't seen the movie but are telling anyone who liked it that they're mindless sheep, maybe your opinions are worth even less given how they're based on presumption, prejudice and ignorance.

- Ibrahim Ng
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

Considering you haven't seen the movie but are telling anyone who liked it that they're mindless sheep, maybe your opinions are worth even less given how they're based on presumption, prejudice and ignorance.

- Ibrahim Ng
agreed.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

Considering you haven't seen the movie but are telling anyone who liked it that they're mindless sheep, maybe your opinions are worth even less given how they're based on presumption, prejudice and ignorance.

- Ibrahim Ng


C'mon. He's a Christian. Presumption, prejudice, and ignorance are his stock and trade.


I'm ready for my warning.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I just think the reasons they like it have little to do with the actual quality of the movie or how it fits into the Trek Universe.

And you are as wrong about that as you are about so many other things.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

What is wrong with not enjoying surprises?

That is hardly an illegitimate viewpoint.
You're entitled to that approach. It remains a sad way to live.

You have evidence to support that position or is it mere opinion?
You deserved exactly the same quantity and quality of "evidence" that you provided for your earlier view about my motivations for liking the film--none.

As for some of the other posts, I've never claimed that people who like the movie are delusional.
No, you merely made an extremely short, unflattering list of potential reasons for expressing a positive opinion of the film and declared any other stated reasons as invalid. One need not call someone delusional to imply it.

I just think the reasons they like it have little to do with the actual quality of the movie or how it fits into the Trek Universe.
And this is what? Fact? (nope) Hmm...what could it be? I know, I know...OPINION. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. However, you are NOT entitled to masquerade that opinion as FACT (as you have several times in this thread alone) NOR is your OPINION itself entitled to any respect (your right to have one is entitled to respect, the opinion itself must EARN any respect it gathers--and it is not likely to do so in its present formulation).
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I provided plenty of evidence to support my opinion.

If the popularity of this movie with the general audience and the good reviews it has received DO NOT MAKE a difference to the Star Trek fans..............then why do Trek fans in this very forum FREQUENTLY mention those two factors when mentioning their positive opinions and viewing experiences.

If those two things really do not matter to Trek fans, then they would not be mentioning them.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I provided plenty of evidence to support my opinion.

If the popularity of this movie with the general audience and the good reviews it has received DO NOT MAKE a difference to the Star Trek fans..............then why do Trek fans in this very forum FREQUENTLY mention those two factors when mentioning their positive opinions and viewing experiences.

If those two things really do not matter to Trek fans, then they would not be mentioning them.
It's getting mentioned because, for once, non-fans are getting into a Trek movie, and we think that this is neat. How often to critics and regular movie-goers enjoy a Trek movie? If you want to use this to support your claims, have at it, but it is very, very weak reasoning at best.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I provided plenty of evidence to support my opinion.
Not when it came to discussing MY reasons for liking the film. You simply lumped me into the undifferentiated mass of "Trek fans" and implied I was lying about my motivations because I did not want to admit to "following the crowd" or some such drivel. All without one shred of evidence to "support" your opinion. And that is the ONLY point to which I have been responding.

If the popularity of this movie with the general audience and the good reviews it has received DO NOT MAKE a difference to the Star Trek fans..............then why do Trek fans in this very forum FREQUENTLY mention those two factors when mentioning their positive opinions and viewing experiences.

If those two things really do not matter to Trek fans, then they would not be mentioning them.
The flaws in your reasoning are several. One--you are extrapolating from a subset to a general set without compelling evidence. That SOME "Trek fans" have made such statements in NO WAY implies approval, tacit or otherwise, of that sentiment by all. Two--you presume that mentioning its popularity is a NECESSARY component of why ALL people who are both "Trek fans" and appreciative of the movie actually do like it (though it would be equally faulty to apply it to any who have not expressly said so). One is not contingent, by necessity, upon the other. Three--you presume that NO OTHER reason can allow for mentioning "I really like the movie" and "it's quite popular" together except to establish a causal connection between the two. There are a myriad of reasons why the two would be mentioned together that do NOT involve a causal connection, chief among them a simple observation of two things happening simultaneously (i.e. "I like it" and "it is popular" rather than "I like it BECAUSE it is popular"). Frankly, not the quality of reasoning I'd expect from a high scorer on the Praxis exam.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I also note the need among some people here to say, in effect, "It's popular (this weekend, anyway) so it must be good!"
Popular with audiences, as well as loved by critics. I mean, art is obviously a subjective thing. But there has to come a point where a person says "since this film is loved by so many, it must be a good film that just doesn't click with me".

.

So your opinion comes down to

"at some point, popularity makes quality"


I pay attention to the reviews because many of the reviewers explain clearly and lucidly the myriad virtues of the new movie.

I'm particularly fond of the rave review in SFX magazine that captures my own feelings remarkably well. The review at salon.com is very well thought-out as well . . . .
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I provided plenty of evidence to support my opinion.

If the popularity of this movie with the general audience and the good reviews it has received DO NOT MAKE a difference to the Star Trek fans..............then why do Trek fans in this very forum FREQUENTLY mention those two factors when mentioning their positive opinions and viewing experiences.

If those two things really do not matter to Trek fans, then they would not be mentioning them.
It's getting mentioned because, for once, non-fans are getting into a Trek movie, and we think that this is neat. How often to critics and regular movie-goers enjoy a Trek movie? If you want to use this to support your claims, have at it, but it is very, very weak reasoning at best.

So you are admitting that the reactions of non-fans and critics is a factor in your opinion of the movie.

Be honest, if this Star Trek movie was widely panned by critics and made only 12 million its opening weekend......do you really think that this forum would be as positively upbeat as it is now?
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

Closing while I catch up.
 
Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

So people who liked this movie are drinking Abrams' Kool Aid?

Fuck you.

How dare you speak for us. I love the movie and saw it 3 times. I can let go of the average plot because I don't care. Star Trek's always been about the characters. Seeing McCoy, Spock, and Kirk up there on the big screen is a blessing. This is Star Trek for a whole new generation.
tauntme, since it's not entirely clear who the "Fuck you" was aimed at, I'm going to issue a verbal advisory that flaming is against board rules and that I'd strongly recommend you avoid it in the future.

Then why the posts by people talking about how great the movie is...and the fact that they continually refer to the movies popularity, its "buzz" and its reviews?

If they are praising the movie on its own merits those types of statements should not be present.

I know its comforting to say to yourself.

"This Star Trek movie is so GREAT!!. So great that even the non Star Trek fans love it".

In reality, it is

"this Star Trek movie is so great. BECAUSE non Star Trek fans love it".

Chasing popularity.........


You are a fucking idiot. :guffaw:

I'll gladly take a warning for that, too. I'm sorry, but this pure level of asinine ignorance just can't be ignored. It's just outrageously bad, and so filled with fail that it's like watching the Hindenburg go down in a hurricane on the Fourth of July! Oh, Dayton, your insane ramblings amuse me so. :lol:

Remember folks, because Dayton doesn't like the movie, the only reason all of you like it is because it's popular!

I mean, you say some stupid shit, mostly when you were in TNZ and over at WF, but wow, you can spread it everywhere you go! You're like the Johnny Appleseed of bullshit!

Holy shit, you made my day, you shit shoveling, ignorant backwoods son of a bitch! :lol:

J.

What a sad, sad world you must live in, to be devoid of surprise like that (I'm not even attempting sarcasm--it is actually a sad thing). It also explains much of your comments.

What is wrong with not enjoying surprises?

That is hardly an illegitimate viewpoint.

Okay, I'll join J. in risking a warning:

You are a moron.
J. Allen and ST-One, you knew this was coming. One warning each for flaming.

I'm pleased to note that this thread actually did have some very good and objective discussion along the way, but there were also a number of people (you know who you are) engaged in baiting those who held different opinions. I'd like to see less of that. A lot less. Because of the way the thread went off the rails in the last few pages, it will not be reopened.
 
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