Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Aide?

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

Moral understories are overrated and not as important to "good Star Trek" as much as people seem to think, especially in the films -- for example, what was TWoK's moral message? What about FC?

Star Trek (especially TOS) is first and foremost a character-driven story, not a plot driven one. There certainly were some allegorical episodes, but even most of those allegories were simply a vehicle that allowed the characters to interact with each other.

The Wrath of Khan and First Contact both had a "moral understory" about revenge, of sorts. This film was also largely driven by revenge, but it wasn't as heavy-handed. The "these-guys-are-destined-for-greatness" theme sort of took over.

I suppose I never saw the revenge angle as a moral understory. "Revenge" is one of those human nature things that exist in just about every story ever made.

I agree the TWoK was about revenge and explored the human condition from the revenge angle, but this film wasn't much "less deep" than TWoK, and it certainly wasn't "lees deep" than FC.

All three films (TWoK, FC, and this film) were enjoyable simply because it was fun to watch the characters work with each other and talk to each other in sharp, witty dialog.

I'll even throw TVH into the mix. Sure TVH had the "save the whales" angle -- but it, too, was more of a "buddy film" than it was an environmental parable.

 

[Sky]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

Yeah, well, the more I think of the movie the more disappointed I feel. At first I was also all "ooooh, shiny!" but then I started thinking about the plot and the storyline and the pacing and the lack of emotional impact... and my mood went downhill from there.

I think plenty of people are still so darn happy that there's any new Trek available that they just plain don't want to see how bad a film this was.

 

[Amaris]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the movie. When a movie is otherwise well made, engaging and gives you characters you care about and enjoy, it's easy for a lot of us to overlook and forgive various failings of the plot. Nemesis was boring, dreary, and the plot made even less sense than this one. Nero's motivations weren't as explained as well as they could have been, but they made far more sense to me than a silly Picard-clone teaming up with this creepy new Romulan offshoot race we've never seen before. Data's death was so contrived and ridiculous, especially with the easy "out" they gave us with the oh so conveniently newly discovered Soong android which robbed the death of what emotional impact it could have had.

This movie gave us the heart wrenching death of a beloved planet. The reaction of Spock losing his mother, and the conversation he had with his father afterward was very touching and one of my favorite scenes. Kirk going from a trouble making hot shot to growing up and taking the first steps to coming the legendary Captain James T. Kirk we know and love. There's a lot to enjoy in this movie, plot failings aside. I'm not surprised it's doing as well as it has. I can definitely understand why some wouldn't like it, but I'm glad to not count myself among them.

Well said.

J.

 

[-Brett-]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

It's just sad to see something I've enjoyed my whole life take a turn that essentially just dumbs it down for mass appeal.

That happened several years ago. This movie was no more dumbed down than any other Star Trek in the last ten years. It was just more entertaining.

 

[Amaris]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

Yeah, well, the more I think of the movie the more disappointed I feel. At first I was also all "ooooh, shiny!" but then I started thinking about the plot and the storyline and the pacing and the lack of emotional impact... and my mood went downhill from there.

I think plenty of people are still so darn happy that there's any new Trek available that they just plain don't want to see how bad a film this was.

On the flipside, there are people who are upset this film even exists because they think it desecrates the original Holy Trinity, there are also people who hate J.J. because they think he's going to make it Star Wars lite. There are people who only dig at the movie because other people like it. There are people who have legitimate reasons on why they don't like the movie, there are people who love the movie because it brings back good feelings of old, there are people who love the movie because of the fast pacing action, there are people who love the movie because it simply worked. What you say is only a small part of the whole. You have every right to not like the movie, but please keep in mind that your tastes are different than mine. Not superior, not inferior, just different.

J.

 

[Geckothan]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

You have every right to not like the movie, but please keep in mind that your tastes are different than mine. Not superior, not inferior, just different.

J.

Couldn't agree more, but that doesn't mean people with differing opinions to yours shouldn't be allowed to express them

 

[tauntme]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

So people who liked this movie are drinking Abrams' Kool Aid?

Fuck you.

How dare you speak for us. I love the movie and saw it 3 times. I can let go of the average plot because I don't care. Star Trek's always been about the characters. Seeing McCoy, Spock, and Kirk up there on the big screen is a blessing. This is Star Trek for a whole new generation.

 

[Peter the Younger]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I thought it struck a perfect balance between fun, action, and emotional impact. It jettisoned the cheese and gave us a brand new reality.

As for emotional impact, I guess I was watching a different film. The old Trek was built around Cold War metaphors that had long since outlived their relevance. Now we have a Federation recovering from a devastating attack, by an enemy they didn't even see coming, and they have to deal with the aftermath of that. This reminds me of something, and it isn't the 1960s.

This is a Star Trek for the 21st century, a world where random death and terror can't extinguish hope. It' doesn't get more relevant than that.

 

[Amaris]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

You have every right to not like the movie, but please keep in mind that your tastes are different than mine. Not superior, not inferior, just different.

J.

Couldn't agree more, but that doesn't mean people with differing opinions to yours shouldn't be allowed to express them

Oh, I don't feel that way at all. I think I'm just exasperated with the "Anyone who likes Star Trek isn't a true Trek fan" crowd. We all have our own sacred cows. Odd as it sounds, my second favorite movie is Star Trek V, and you've seen the reputation it has around here. I can take criticism and I can take criticism of the movie, it's when people hate just to hate or hurt just to hurt. I don't appreciate that.

J.

 

[archeryguy1701]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

Wow. Calling fans of the new movie kool-aid drinkers. That one hasn't been done to death already.

I enjoyed the movie because *gasp* I thought it was fun, well acted, interesting movie. Are you allowed to dislike or hate? Sure. No one's going to stop you. But just because you think it's crap doesn't mean it is crap, and no one is under any obligation to agree with you.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I don't understand how long time fans can view this latest movie and NOT be insulted.

Well, since you're talking about 90 percent or more of fans, you might come to understand if you read a lot of what they post instead of inveighing them to read your review.

Or is your "not understanding" simply a rhetorical device for conveying your disapproval?

 

[The Sneeze Police]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

First I will say that I enjoyed the movie, and I didn't have to down any Kool Aid. I particularly emjoyed the opening sequences with the Kelvin, and I thought the exterior of the Enterprise was a thing of beauty.

The movie did leave me a bit melancholy because it I felt that the old style of Trek story telling has been swept away and replaced with a modern sensibility...sorta "Trek is dead. Long live Trek." Although I am mourning the Trek bygone days, I think I am going to enjoy the new installments just as much...

 

[Capn Flukie]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I think us older fans have it good. We've got all the old shows and movies to look back on, plus a new beginning to enjoy along with the new fans.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

First I will say that I enjoyed the movie, and I didn't have to down any Kool Aid. I particularly emjoyed the opening sequences with the Kelvin, and I thought the exterior of the Enterprise was a thing of beauty.

The movie did leave me a bit melancholy because it I felt that the old style of Trek story telling has been swept away and replaced with a modern sensibility...sorta "Trek is dead. Long live Trek." Although I am mourning the Trek bygone days, I think I am going to enjoy the new installments just as much...

Seconded.

 

[DeafPoet]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

Moral understories are overrated and not as important to "good Star Trek" as people seem to think, especially in the films -- for example, what was TWoK's moral message? What about FC?

Star Trek (especially TOS) is first and foremost a character-driven story, not a plot driven one. There certainly were some allegorical episodes, but even most of those allegories were simply a vehicle that allowed the characters to interact with each other.

This is what I've been thinking a lot recently. A lot of people seem to think that every single episode of TOS was brimming with social commentary. By my rough reckoning, episodes like "A Private Little War" are far outnumbered by stuff like "The Naked Time" and "Specter of the Gun".

Good Star Trek comes in many flavors, both the moralizing and fluffier varieties. Star Trek falls somewhere in between those two extremes and is really more concerned with themes of friendship and destiny than it is about making some particular grand statement about humanity.

Really, a statement like that is out of place in an origin story anyway. You want to say something about the characters first so you have a good foundation to do other stuff later.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I think us older fans have it good. We've got all the old shows and movies to look back on, plus a new beginning to enjoy along with the new fans.

Yep.

 

[Small White Car]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

So people who liked this movie are drinking Abrams' Kool Aid?

Fuck you.

Ha ha. You must not be a Mac user.

It's close to a decade now that I've been told I only like my computer because of Steve Jobs' Kool Aid.

Now, apparently, I only like the new Star Trek because of JJ's Kool Aid.

I'm sure whatever I like next week will be because of someone else's Kool Aid.

You'll get used to it.

 

[Cheebo]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I think Nimoy said it best when he said the trekkies who didn't like it were dickheads.

 

[DeafPoet]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

Also, Kool Aid's pretty fucking delicious.

 

[Brent]

Re: Come on people - am I the only fan who can't drink Abrams' Cool Ai

I Like Kool Aid! It's exciting!