NEMESIS is worst Trek movie

[Gary7]

The entire movie was stolen from some earlier Trek and crammed together in a very dumb way. Not to mention that the film is so static and lifeless. It's like the movie is trying to force me to fall asleep. The direction is crap, the acting is crap, the story is crap, and the action is uninspired.

The whole thing is so implausable. The timeline goes something like this, if we assume Shinzon is 25:

-The Romulans clone Picard, captain of the USS Stargazer.
-When Shinzon is maybe 10 they decide to make him a Reman slave.
-The Remans for some reason give a shit about an alien kid and help him.
-Shinzon spends 10 years underground.
-The Remans make Shinzon their leader...? For some reason?
-Despite the fact that Remans are 'canon fodder' Shinzon is given command of romulan forces during the dominion war. (he's what, 17 years old at this point?)
-Shinzon builds an uber-ship with technology far more advanced than the federation or romulan ships. Without the romulans finding out.
-Shinzon finds a Soong android somehow.
-He somehow reprograms it.
-He leaves it on a planet near the neutral zone, scattered in pieces.
-He kills the romulan senate with the help of the military.
-By random chance the Enterprise is sent to romulus rather than any other ship.
-Shinzon, after waiting his whole life for his moment of glory, sits around jerking off for the better part of a day.
-Shinzon uses the B-4 android to steal starfleet's info. Which he doesn't need anyway.
-Captures Picard FINALLY but then doesn't steal his blood, or destroy the Enterprise, or warp to Earth. Everyone just sits on their hands until Data saves Picard. THAT WENT WELL.
-Romulans turn on Shinzon because they...want to save Earth...despite having given Shinzon power so he COULD destroy the entire federation. Yeah, whatever.
-blah blah blah.
-Shinzon is killed by a...pointy wall decoration.

It's all nonsense. I've read fanfics that made more sense.

You pretty well summed it up in nice concise bullet points. The key elements for me are:

* Shinzon's character - we have no back story that makes sense for the person we see. Picard is much smarter than average, but he's no genius. Thus, Shinzon can't be either. Then what does he have to offer? The Romulans would have killed him, not put him into slave labor. As a child? What good? Kill him. But no... he grows up in slave mining. No education. But the Shinzon we see seems quite educated. It makes no sense. Growing up in that situation... even if the Remans befriended him, he'd be a "human trophy" for them. Not a leader. It makes no sense.

* Shinzon's technology - no plausible way for him to have developed such a superior ship AND develop the biogenic weapon. Remember in TNG, the detection of the metagenic production? Certainly the Romulans would have detected any biogenic development. The Remans are treated as 2nd class citizens... no way that anyone could get the resources it would take to build something like the Scimitar.

* Shinzon's hatred - for his back story, there would be no more compelling foe for him to want to eradicate than the Romulan empire. And I'd expect he'd crave to seek out Picard as a father, not as a nemesis.

* Thalaron radiation - 'Radiation' identifies a certain kind of property. This 'thalaron' biogenic weapon does not behave as such. After the incident in the Romulan senate, no one would be able to go near it for years. The Scimitar's destruction would have given off thalaron radiation and killed everyone in the area. There's no radiation, so don't call it that.

Yeah... these glaring and ridiculous issues. I'm so very surprised that Berman had the power to get this out... wouldn't SOMEONE with even the slightest pull at Paramount say "Hey, this is CRAP--we can't make this as-is; it MUST be rewritten," especially given the enormous budget?

 

[EnsignRicky]

Wow, quite a few Nemesis threads popping up lately. What, is it making the rounds on AMC or something? Anyway, yeah it's the worst Trek movie thus far. I saw it once in the theater and don't have any desire to ever see it again. It was the same deal with Insurrection, except I don't recall thinking God this sucks, every ten minutes during that one; It was more like twenty.

 

[Gary7]

Btw, here's a better version: Nemesis, take II.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Wow, quite a few Nemesis threads popping up lately. What, is it making the rounds on AMC or something? Anyway, yeah it's the worst Trek movie thus far. I saw it once in the theater and don't have any desire to ever see it again. It was the same deal with Insurrection, except I don't recall thinking God this sucks, every ten minutes during that one; It was more like twenty.

Some fans are in denial about how bad this movie is. Same as the STAR WARS fans and their love for the EWOKS (friend of mine actually thinks EWOKS made JEDI a great film...huh? Riiiiiiiight)

Oh well..to each their own. I don't think NEMESIS lovers are whack-job nuts. Hey, I like STAR TREK V a lot, so I am sure I have a room waiting for me with white straight jackets and padded walls...

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Too Much Fun]

I just realized something the other day that made me even sadder about how this movie turned out. Has anyone ever thought about the fact that because this movie was released in 2002, it came out just in time for the 15th anniversary of "Star Trek: The Next Generation"? Why didn't anybody take that into consideration in both the making and marketing of the film? It would have been wonderful to have a teaser like the one for "The Undiscovered Country" that played up the anniversary.

Does anyone remember that great "Star Trek VI" teaser that drew attention to how the movie was coming out 25 years after "Star Trek" first airred by showing clips from the series? Not that such a teaser would make much of a difference if Nemesis was still made the same way, but I just don't understand why there wasn't more reverence for the movie's historical significance towards Star Trek in its conception.

The only thing about it that I think was done perfectly (in that regard and overall) was the tagline - "A generation's final journey begins". We've got a big problem, though, when the best thing about a movie and the only thing about it that really works is its freaking tagline! Everyone talks about how it ripped off "The Wrath of Khan" and how that's part of why it's so bad, but I'd wager that simply ripping off another Star Trek movie didn't mean automatic fail and had it ripped off "The Undiscovered Country" instead, it could have been a real triumph.

Okay, Romulans weren't as consistent main baddies in TNG as the Klingons were in "Star Trek", but for all intents and purposes, they were the closest thing to the equivalent nemesis of the TNG crew with whom a good movie could have been made about resolving their differences. The Borg were arguably a more 'high profile' enemy since their presence influenced the series from seasons 2 to 6 and the Romulans were sort of marginalized after all the stuff with Sela in season 5, but the Borg had already been done on the big screen and the Cardassians (despite a fantastic showing in "Chain of Command") weren't developed enough yet (we'd have to wait till DS9 for that).

I remember in 2001 I asked a friend what was going on with the Star Trek franchise (wasn't up to speed on that stuff back then) and he told me a new movie would come out the following year and it would be about the Romulans. Sounds good, I thought. And it made sense since the Romulans were fleshed out nicely in the early seasons of TNG and remained antagonistic towards the federation from the start of the series till the end. What better way to end the TNG movie series than by giving their greatest enemy (not counting Q) from the start its finest hour with a big screen outing that did justice to their effectiveness as villains? I wondered what happened to that movie.

 

[Penhall99]

Nemesis was definitely a flawed film. In fact, I think it had the most flaws of any Trek film. But I still enjoyed it.

Insurrection is the weakest of the Trek films, IMO.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Nemesis was definitely a flawed film. In fact, I think it had the most flaws of any Trek film. But I still enjoyed it.

Insurrection is the weakest of the Trek films, IMO.

i can't disagree with that statement. Coming off of FC, Insurrection had so much going for it. All it did was cement the 'two hour episode' feel that TREK movies were notorious for.

Rob

 

[cardinal biggles]

The TNG films were notorious for feeling like a two-hour episode; the TOS films, even after they were put on a smaller budget, always felt like they were doing something they couldn't have done on the TV show.

 

[RobertScorpio]

The TNG films were notorious for feeling like a two-hour episode; the TOS films, even after they were put on a smaller budget, always felt like they were doing something they couldn't have done on the TV show.

That is a good point. Which, to me, is an example of just simply better writing? Maybe? What do you think?

Rob

 

[Too Much Fun]

It's not just writing, I think it's attention to detail too. Aside from "First Contact", I don't think the other TNG movies were even as grand looking as most of the original Star Trek films. I think there was generally 'a lot more love' lavished upon the original series movies. As in people went into painstaking detail with designing those movies from the ground up to make them worthy of the big screen (except maybe Star Trek V).

I'm in the middle of watching "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" all the way through for the first time (tried once and could not finish it) and right off the bat, what impresses me most is how much effort clearly went into the production design and special effects...the Enterprise, the planets, other ships, and even space itself look more beautiful and awe-inspiring to me than those in any of the subsequent Star Trek series in movies. Whatever else it may be (haven't made a final judgment yet), it's definitely one of the best-looking science fiction movies I've ever seen.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Ah never mind...

 

[Zeppster]

Nemesis is a bad movie but not the worst movie. ST V and Generations are worse in my opinion. But it's one of the worst.

 

[shakov]

It was no better, or worse than any of the TNG films>

 

[Zeppster]

It was no better, or worse than any of the TNG films>

First Contact is one of the best Star Trek movies ever, and Insurrection is fun to watch, has a lot of the humor ST is meant to have. Nemesis missed in all areas.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Nemesis is bland, forgettable.

Is it the worst star trek movie? No.
Star Trek V is. I don't think Shatner could have made a worse movie if he tried (and had Star trek V's budget and franchise).

Does Nemesis have the most plotholes? Again, no.
Which movie "earned" this title? It's a tie between star trek V, Generations and The Wrath of Khan.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Nemesis is bland, forgettable.

Is it the worst star trek movie? No.
Star Trek V is. I don't think Shatner could have made a worse movie if he tried (and had Star trek V's budget and franchise).

Does Nemesis have the most plotholes? Again, no.
Which movie "earned" this title? It's a tie between star trek V, Generations and The Wrath of Khan.

Sorry, couldn't disagree with you more. Nemesis is by far the worst movie. TREK V has some great acting moments, including Deforest's best outing as McCoy.

There is absolutely no reason I will ever watch nemesis again. They couldn't have made a more boring movie if they had tried.

As the OP of this thread I have to say that my original statement stands; Nemesis is the worst Star Trek movie...ever. Case closed.

Rob
Scorpio

 

[ProtoAvatar]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point.

Nemesis actually looks like a movie - a bland movie, but a movie nonetheless. Star trek V looks like a failed TOS episode - and Shatner's acting in the "movie" was atrocious.

And, by comparison with star trek V's plotholes, Nemesis' are negligible.

 

[Anticitizen]

Watching Nemesis felt like watching someone else play a video game.

 

[RobertScorpio]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point.

Nemesis actually looks like a movie - a bland movie, but a movie nonetheless. Star trek V looks like a failed TOS episode - and Shatner's acting in the "movie" was atrocious.

And, by comparison with star trek V's plotholes, Nemesis' are negligible.

The scene with SYBOK in the observation lounge was a great scene, shatner included. I cant point to one moment in NEMESIS when the acting was above high-school level.

And the blatant rip-off plot (of KHAN) was so apparent, it is one of the biggest distractions in the movie. SHINZON has to go down as one of the worst, if not the worst, TREK villain of all time. SYBOK was more engaging and, tada, more interesting than Shinzon.

TREK V is the better movie.

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Zeppster]

Trek 5 isn't really a movie, it's just a bunch of moments and some of them are decent, some of them fall flat. It has really not significant plot. Nemesis tried to be a movie but it was just not very well thought out. If they kept Frakes as the director and kept some of the deleted scenes it may have actually worked a little better. But it was flat.