Endgame as it was first intended...

[PhoenixIreland]

I would have preferred the rumored way Voyager would have progressed (When DS9 ended Voyager made its way home - to a Federation controlled by the Dominion), but I'm one of the few who likes Endgame.

That would have been good too though.

Thats very dark...but I kinda like it...maybe a good story for an alternate universe novel or something thats actually an idea I'd love to see explored.

They destroy the borg hub without future Janeway coming along and get through to Earth to find a load of Dominion battle crusers in orbit "eradicating it's population" as Weyon suggestd, they flee at high warp before they're spotted and form the basis of some kind of Federation resistance being the head ship in whats left of starfleet.

Indeed.

As a matter of fact, one of Braga's scathingly brilliant ideas was to kill Seven off in the finale. She was supposed to sacrifice herself to save the ship and get her crewmates home. Why? Because she realized that she would never be able to regain her humanity!

Thats just fuckin depressing....

Them not getting home is also depressing, I remember as a kid watching the last episode of Quantum Leap and the words appeard on the screen: "Dr Sam Beckitt never returned home" and I was like wtf?????

 

[Tomalak]

What is it with Bakula and crap finales?

 

[Guy Gardener]

The finale for Quantum leap made me cry the first ten times I saw it.

I'm dead inside now.

It's nice to remember back when I had some humanity.

Bugger Seven's belly aching!

"Regain" her humanity?

She is comparing her current emotional well being to what she recalls how Seven year old Anika enjoyed that starting character humanity? Or was she comparing herself to the emotional well being of all the people in her head she had locked away in cold storage she was too afraid to use piece meal or allow constitutionals as an apology for murdering them.

Gold fish have more humanity than Harry Kim. If she'd just use him as a yard stick she'd feel magnificent about herself.

Obviously Braga doesn't understand Spocks sacrifice. It wasn't about Spock hogging glory, it was about saving his friend from the duty of doing something awful.

Deanna sent Geordi to die easy.

 

[Brit]

There was one more thing in Endgame that didn't make a lot of sense to me. Seven's emotional damper.

The Doctor turned it off so she could have a fuller (ie adult) relationship with Chakotay. But it was an "emotion" damper not a "love or pleasure" damper. So that would mean all her emotions were turned on. Love is only a part of it, there is anger, envy, hate, fear. She would have had problems with just the simple irritation of living with 140 other individuals.

Brit

 

[Guy Gardener]

You recall that the cortical implant did not turn off her emotions, it forced her to pass out if she tried to have too many emotions, and then if she ignored that a couple times, it tried to kill her.

Heart, brain, going home... Courage probably fits in their somewhere.

Totally Zardoz.

Getting rid of the cortical implant was "dangerous" brain surgery which would eventually result in the "death" of her current personality as it would be given the opportunity to stretch and grow into something unrecognizable. So that they might literally kill her while trying to metaphorically kill her? That's completely Tuvix. Think about it. I mean in the beginning Janeway ordered her deassimilation because the girl didn't know know better but our Captain promised the little overly groomed blonde that as soon as she was a reasonable person, that she could make these decisions for herself, which by this point equates to suicide. But really, if she was emotionally limited completely for the entire 4 years she was on the show, was she ever human and reasonable and informed enough to make any decisions about her life that the state (as in caring fro the intellectually retarded and young orphans) should step in to make sure she doesn't harm herself with bad decisions? Totally Tuvix. Janeway would have had right to veto the procedure if she cared to, or speed it along if she believed Borg programming was keeping the human she would become hostage.

Before the cortical implant was removed could (good) sex had tapped an appropriately large emotional reaction that her mplant would have pushed her into a coma and begin trying to kill her again?

Gods. She had to be chaste.

This is the difference between men and women. A male balck widow spider knows that it can only have an orgasm if it's mate rips it's head off and considers this to be totally worth it. Humans play dice with their dick constantly. but shagging equals death as a one hundred percent certainty if you're doing ti with someone you "care" for?

No wonder she opted for the wooden Indian and earlier dim Kim.

AH!!!!!!!

The doctor isn't real!!!

The Doctor when he was using Seven for a mule, was all horny for Megan Ghalligar and all homoreviled when her brother said that it was he who wanted to get his leg over...

no coma.

No near death experience.

Maybe his "emotions" were not processed in the same way as Sevens? or maybe he has no emotions because he's only a machine designed to believe he thinks and feels for the amusement of his crew?

 

[Tomalak]

I watched this again last night, after I stumbled across the video when I was cleaning out the loft.

Watched in isolation, it's not a bad episode, but as a finale to the series, there's not much going on. Admiral Janeway is much cooler than Captain Janeway, even though she has no right to be changing history just to bring back Seven of Nine. What were the 29th century time fleet up to?

The Chakotay/Seven stuff is just strange.

By far the worst bit is Harry Kim's "inspirational" speech in the ready room. It's painfully written, but Garrett Wang manages to make it sound like a parody of Star Trek.

They dumped Jennifer Lien for this guy?

 

[JB2005]

I watched this again last night, after I stumbled across the video when I was cleaning out the loft.

Watched in isolation, it's not a bad episode, but as a finale to the series, there's not much going on. Admiral Janeway is much cooler than Captain Janeway, even though she has no right to be changing history just to bring back Seven of Nine. What were the 29th century time fleet up to?

The Chakotay/Seven stuff is just strange.

By far the worst bit is Harry Kim's "inspirational" speech in the ready room. It's painfully written, but Garrett Wang manages to make it sound like a parody of Star Trek.

They dumped Jennifer Lien for this guy?

Meh i can't believe they rejected my idea of replacing Harry Kim with an Apple Tree wearing a comm-badge, imagine the story possibilities...course there would have been the detractors:

"Time Magazine call's Apple T. Ree's Acting wooden."

 

[ProwlAlpha]

I don't think any of the crew should have made it home, well at least duke it out with the Borg sphere in Earth's orbit, and both vessels doing a flaming streak across the atmosphere.

 

[PhoenixIreland]

Has anyone ever asked them why they never showed the crew at home for the last two episodes?

 

[Guy Gardener]

looking at your avatar PheonixIreland...

I'm wondering how impromptu that buzzing of the Golden gate Bridge was? I mean did Tom just go mental when they got home and he buzzed San Fransisco for kicks not giving a damn about the antistarship phaser batteries? Or did they fill out ten thousand boxes of paperwork to be allowed an approved parade route through incredibly controlled airspace because are we sure that all those explosions are fireworks?

Sulu crashed through the Bugger in The Voyager Home right? The Interstellar Heritage Committee would be kicking hine kinds of shit to keep that bridge safe form idiot space jockeys.

 

[Dac]

Sulu crashed through the Bugger in The Voyager Home right? The Interstellar Heritage Committee would be kicking hine kinds of shit to keep that bridge safe form idiot space jockeys.

The Breen also blew it up only a couple of years prior to Voyager returning home.

Them Starfleet engineers dont 'alf like to get busy rebuilding a bridge for a mode of transport which has been obsolete for all of 200 years...

...Oh fuck I just remembered Nemesis....*hits reset button.*

Them Starfleet engineers dont 'alf like to get busy rebuilding a bridge for a mode of transport which has been obsolete for all of 200 years...

...Oh fuck I just remembered Nemesis....*hits reset button.*


Them Starfleet engineers dont 'alf like to get busy rebuilding a bridge for a mode of transport which has been obsolete for all of 200 years...

...Oh fuck I just remembered Nemesis....*hits reset button.*


Them Starfleet engineers dont 'alf like to get busy rebuilding a bridge for a mode of transport which has been obsolete for all of 200 years...

...Oh fuck I just remembered Nemesis....*hits reset button.*


Them Starfleet engineers dont 'alf like to get busy rebuilding a bridge for a mode of transport which has been obsolete for all of 200 years...

...Oh fuck I just remembered Nemesis....*hits reset button.*

Them Starfleet engineers dont 'alf like to get busy rebuilding a bridge for a mode of transport which has been obsolete for all of 200 years...

...Oh fuck I just remembered Nemesis....*hits reset button.*


Them Starfleet engineers dont 'alf like to get busy rebuilding a bridge for useless historical properties!

Phew, thought i'd never get out of that...

 

[PhoenixIreland]

looking at your avatar PheonixIreland...

I'm wondering how impromptu that buzzing of the Golden gate Bridge was? I mean did Tom just go mental when they got home and he buzzed San Fransisco for kicks not giving a damn about the antistarship phaser batteries? Or did they fill out ten thousand boxes of paperwork to be allowed an approved parade route through incredibly controlled airspace because are we sure that all those explosions are fireworks?

Sulu crashed through the Bugger in The Voyager Home right? The Interstellar Heritage Committee would be kicking hine kinds of shit to keep that bridge safe form idiot space jockeys.

Since it took a few days to get back to earth (they went slow) maybe Tom got so giddy over the baby and the getting home thing and thought "were the returning heros, we destroyed the borg and daddys a big shot admiral...what are they gonna do about it?"...zoom.....duck...dive

 

[Guy Gardener]

The baby would have been 16 in the original timeline when they finally got to earth where that snapshot was taken, and they'd all perhaps been in realtime conversation with home for years.

 

[Praetor]

Sulu crashed through the Bugger in The Voyager Home right? The Interstellar Heritage Committee would be kicking hine kinds of shit to keep that bridge safe form idiot space jockeys.

The Breen also blew it up only a couple of years prior to Voyager returning home.

Them Starfleet engineers dont 'alf like to get busy rebuilding a bridge for a mode of transport which has been obsolete for all of 200 years...

...Oh fuck I just remembered Nemesis....*hits reset button.*

Them Starfleet engineers dont 'alf like to get busy rebuilding a bridge for a mode of transport which has been obsolete for all of 200 years...

...Oh fuck I just remembered Nemesis....*hits reset button.*


Them Starfleet engineers dont 'alf like to get busy rebuilding a bridge for a mode of transport which has been obsolete for all of 200 years...

...Oh fuck I just remembered Nemesis....*hits reset button.*


Them Starfleet engineers dont 'alf like to get busy rebuilding a bridge for a mode of transport which has been obsolete for all of 200 years...

...Oh fuck I just remembered Nemesis....*hits reset button.*


Them Starfleet engineers dont 'alf like to get busy rebuilding a bridge for a mode of transport which has been obsolete for all of 200 years...

...Oh fuck I just remembered Nemesis....*hits reset button.*

Them Starfleet engineers dont 'alf like to get busy rebuilding a bridge for a mode of transport which has been obsolete for all of 200 years...

...Oh fuck I just remembered Nemesis....*hits reset button.*


Them Starfleet engineers dont 'alf like to get busy rebuilding a bridge for useless historical properties!

Phew, thought i'd never get out of that...

 

[PhoenixIreland]

The baby would have been 16 in the original timeline when they finally got to earth where that snapshot was taken, and they'd all perhaps been in realtime conversation with home for years.

I meant assuming they did it again in the new timeline.

 

[teya]

There was one more thing in Endgame that didn't make a lot of sense to me. Seven's emotional damper.

The Doctor turned it off so she could have a fuller (ie adult) relationship with Chakotay. But it was an "emotion" damper not a "love or pleasure" damper. So that would mean all her emotions were turned on. Love is only a part of it, there is anger, envy, hate, fear. She would have had problems with just the simple irritation of living with 140 other individuals.

Brit

Except that she already had quite obviously experienced emotion--anger, guilt, anxiety, fear, grief, remorse, shame. Which made the entire concept of the dampener ridiculous.

 

[Tachyon]

I rather liked the idea of Seven dying in the finale. It would have been unexpected to say the least.

 

[exodus]

There was one more thing in Endgame that didn't make a lot of sense to me. Seven's emotional damper.

The Doctor turned it off so she could have a fuller (ie adult) relationship with Chakotay. But it was an "emotion" damper not a "love or pleasure" damper. So that would mean all her emotions were turned on. Love is only a part of it, there is anger, envy, hate, fear. She would have had problems with just the simple irritation of living with 140 other individuals.

Brit

Except that she already had quite obviously experienced emotion--anger, guilt, anxiety, fear, grief, remorse, shame. Which made the entire concept of the dampener ridiculous.

I can only assume they meant not to the point where it would be physical, like full out crying or extreme depression.

I think about it; with all the lives Seven helped destroy as a Borg, shouldn't she feel stronger emotions about it than guilt? Shouldn't we expact her emotionally to be like Janeway was in "Night". Such severe depresssion and remorse, she'd lock herself way for while coming to grips with it. Seven never even sought counceling for the horrors she commited. Even when Seven did "feel" something, she often played it close to the chest, never wearing her heart on her sleeve.

 

[exodus]

I rather liked the idea of Seven dying in the finale. It would have been unexpected to say the least.

It should have been Tom.

Tom is the one character almost everybody seems to like. Killing him would have a severe emotional impact on the fan base and gives us something to really talk about.

 

[teya]

There was one more thing in Endgame that didn't make a lot of sense to me. Seven's emotional damper.

The Doctor turned it off so she could have a fuller (ie adult) relationship with Chakotay. But it was an "emotion" damper not a "love or pleasure" damper. So that would mean all her emotions were turned on. Love is only a part of it, there is anger, envy, hate, fear. She would have had problems with just the simple irritation of living with 140 other individuals.

Brit

Except that she already had quite obviously experienced emotion--anger, guilt, anxiety, fear, grief, remorse, shame. Which made the entire concept of the dampener ridiculous.

I can only assume they meant not to the point where it would be physical, like full out crying or extreme depression.

I think about it; with all the lives Seven helped destroy as a Borg, shouldn't she feel stronger emotions about it than guilt? Shouldn't we expact her emotionally to be like Janeway was in "Night". Such severe depresssion and remorse, she'd lock herself way for while coming to grips with it. Seven never even sought counceling for the horrors she commited. Even when Seven did "feel" something, she often played it close to the chest, never wearing her heart on her sleeve.

She talked about her remorse--it being a useful, although uncomfortable emotion--in "Memorial." I agree that we didn't see much of her private time, but we didn't see much of the rest of the crew's either--unless they needed it for a plot device (a la Janeway in "Night").

But because she doesn't wear her heat on her sleeve, doesn't mean she doesn't feel. Not all people wear their hearts on their sleeve.