Endgame as it was first intended...

[Octavia]

Just that Braga was planning Seven to be an ultimately tragic character.

Maybe TATV was his revenge for not being able to kill off Seven?

I just ignore TATV as though it never existed...

Now you see, to me she did end up being a partly tragic character, due to that stupid emotion chip which made no sense whatsoever.

But I don't think I'm using "tragic" in the same sense as Braga was.

 

[freak]

I so do agree about the damn time travel thing. It gives me a migrane! I think the idea of them NOT getting home would have been really interesting. But I soooo felt it inside my gut that they WOULD get home, but not at the expense of Admiral Janeway.

 

[exodus]

I stopped watching Enterprise when I realized Porthos was my favorite character but from what I've heard a major character (not Porthos) was killed off.

I stopped watching Enterprise when I realized Porthos was my favorite character but from what I've heard a major character (not Porthos) was killed off. It raised quite a ruckus.

I stopped watching Enterprise when I realized Porthos was my favorite character but from what I've heard a major character (not Porthos) was killed off. It raised quite a ruckus.

Aw shit! Not again!

(Look at my avatar. )

"All HANDS, ABANDON SHIP!! ABANDON SHIP!!"

 

[Praetor]

"Uh, we had a slight malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?"

 

[exodus]

"Uh, we had a slight malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?"

*blasts console*

"Boring converstation anyhow."

 

[Rii]

Until characters like Kira & Janeway, Trek was mostly a boys club as far as fanbase.

Do you have anything to back this up? I'd be interested in the numbers.

 

[JustKate]

^ I would be, too. I was around in the days of TOS, I liked Trek, and so did my mother (and she still does), and neither of us is or was male. Quite possibly we were the exceptions, but maybe we weren't quite as exceptional as Exodus seems to be indicating.

My guess would be that the majority of the fanbase was and is male, but majority=51 percent or more, so there could have been a fairly sizeable minority even in the days when Kirk first hit the screen. But maybe not. I just don't know.

And of course it also depends how you define "fanbase."

 

[exodus]

Until characters like Kira & Janeway, Trek was mostly a boys club as far as fanbase.

Do you have anything to back this up? I'd be interested in the numbers.

Look around you, go to conventions, get ratings and demographic numbers.

There has always been more males watching sci-fi than women. How many female lead characters have there ever been in sci-fi? Even Ellen Ripely wasn't a main focus hero until the second Alien film. It was thru James Camron's help with Ripley & Sara Connor that women became condenders as action heros in sci-fi.

 

[Rii]

Until characters like Kira & Janeway, Trek was mostly a boys club as far as fanbase.

Do you have anything to back this up? I'd be interested in the numbers.

Look around you, go to conventions, get ratings and demographic numbers.

Conventions have their own potentially complicating social factors, and although I've never attended one I don't believe there are series-specific conventions.

There has always been more males watching sci-fi than women.

This certainly seems to be the case, I'm not interested in the raw numbers so much as I am your assertion of a difference in the gender balance of DS9 and VOY fans relative to TOS, TNG, and ENT fans.

How many female lead characters have there ever been in sci-fi? Even Ellen Ripely wasn't a main focus hero until the second Alien film. It was thru James Camron's help with Ripley & Sara Connor that women became condenders as action heros in sci-fi.

Your implication appears to be that there's a direct correlation between the characterisation of women in sci-fi and the level of interest women have in it. I grant that it's unlikely that an explicitly misogynist show would garner much of an audience amongst women (and hopefully not much of one amongst men either) but beyond that I'm not at all convinced of this. I suspect more fundamental factors at work.

 

[Tomalak]

I doubt there's been a real study of gender and Trek viewership, but you only have to look at scheduling and advertising to know it's intended to hit the 18-35 male demographic. Star Trek Voyager was probably the most girl-friendly series however, at least in my experience.

Buffy definitely had a lot of appeal to women, as does Battlestar Galactica, both series with strong female characters.

 

[kimc]

I doubt there's been a real study of gender and Trek viewership, but you only have to look at scheduling and advertising to know it's intended to hit the 18-35 male demographic.

I have to agree that's been the "desired demographic" for the shows and they've yet to tap into the potential brought by the rest of us (unlike BSG, etc.) In fact, I had a neighbor in her sixties who used to watch TOS with her kids. She also had a nice set collection of Trek captain plates in her living room. I doubt she ever attended a convention though.

 

[Praetor]

That's really cool. I think that's part of it for some older viewers - for example, I watched the movies, DS9 and VGR with my father and we sort of bonded over them. He couldn't tell you a lot about them, and he's only been to one convention with me when I was little, but I'd say he's a fan. He'll occasionally drop a reference.

 

[JustKate]

I never have gone to a convention, and I've been a Trek fan since the 1960s. (I think my mother has gone once though - she went in costume as a kai, if I recall correctly. Mom is sooooo cool.) Maybe I will someday, but if your definition of "fan" requires attendance at conventions...well, you're missing out on a lot of people who really love Star Trek.

 

[Thor Damar]

I never have gone to a convention, and I've been a Trek fan since the 1960s. (I think my mother has gone once though - she went in costume as a kai, if I recall correctly. Mom is sooooo cool.) Maybe I will someday, but if your definition of "fan" requires attendance at conventions...well, you're missing out on a lot of people who really love Star Trek.

I have to also say that I wouldn't go to a convention, there's just to many bad stereotypes banded around for my own comfort I'm afraid to say. And the closest that I would ever come to wearing a costume is perhaps wearing a badge of the Cardassian sigil.

I love the Star Wars quotes, that's easily the funnest moment in that film.

 

[Tomalak]

I can't say I've ever been, or would want to go to a convention. Seeing the actors on stage or signing a photograph just doesn't hold much appeal for me.

 

[Praetor]

When I went, wearing Starfleet shirt uniform and all, I was 11 (I think) and even then I felt like I was stretching the boundaries of cool a bit too much.

The nicest thing about the one I went to was the merchandise. So much stuff, so little money...

So about that 'Endgame'...

Does anyone here actually like it as filmed?

 

[Tomalak]

I can certainly understand that. I went to the Star Trek exhibition when it was in London in the mid-nineties, and I think I spent most of my time in the shop looking at all the amazing toys.

Never did get that Bajoran phaser!

 

[Thor Damar]

When I went, wearing Starfleet shirt uniform and all, I was 11 (I think) and even then I felt like I was stretching the boundaries of cool a bit too much.

The nicest thing about the one I went to was the merchandise. So much stuff, so little money...

So about that 'Endgame'...

Does anyone here actually like it as filmed?

Only the bit where the Borg Unicomplex and the Borg Queen go up in flames.

"Must have been something you assimilated..."

 

[JustKate]

Nope, not me.

I think some people on this forum have in the past indicated that they were at least "OK" with Endgame ("OK" is in quotes because I think that was the actual term used by at least one poster)...There might have been a poll, but then again, maybe not. It was perhaps 3-4 months ago?

 

[Praetor]

I don't remember for sure whether there was a poll. If not, there should be.

While I find it watchable in a popcorn sort of way, when I really deconstruct it, it's not very good or in character. It's almost as jarring as ENT's 'TATV' and IMO is only saved by its entertainment quality, which drops in certain scenes. I actually found the future in some ways more interesting than the actual plot, and might have preferred if the episode had been staged as a flashback from that time. I was interested in novelist Paris and diplomat Torres and daughter Miral. Crazy Tuvok didn't even bother me that much. Of course, not unlike AGT, there are things that I would change - such as Chakotay and Seven. Their relationships, their deaths. Yech.