The rape of space...

[RobertScorpio]

Seeing how mankind has been for the past 5000 years, I see no hope that we will ever, peacefully, explore space like they do in Star Trek. I see a future more like ALIENS where we are just up there mining for whatever it is we mine for in these futuristic movies....

I think STAR TREK's main attraction is this hopeful future where we are all one big happy planet and we love each other. But I just don't see that..ever.

Now...then the question comes to this. If the future we are heading for is one where we just go out there to exploit the resources of space, is that all bad? Especially If that is in our nature?

I keep hearing that mantra that 'only civilizations that have matured and see the value of life and are not superfical will come to see that exploitation of resources cant be the reason to even invest all the time and effort"...hooey!!! You could have made that same argument when we started to explore our own world. But in every case, exploitation of resources was what funded those explorations. To find alternate trade routs...to find more Gold...to bring faith to them-there heathens...

"Well, just because we are like that, doesn't mean that all life is like that in outer-space." Really? Until we find such life then either conclusion is viable. Because in STAR TREK's own future it is clear that there is such life out there that wants to explore and rape the resources of space, or militerize it. The Klingons/Romulans are not just out there planting flowers....

Sooooooooooooooooooooooo...in conclusion. It isn't a question, to me, whether or not mankind will go up to MARS and, hundreds of years from now, have raped it and left land-fields of our litter up there (Diapers and all)...it is our destiny. That's what we do. The question is what is wrong with that? We're doing it to this world and, really, do most people outside of Greenpeace really care that much?

The fact you (and I) are on this website using your CARBON STAMPING computers/internet tech and eating food from plastic wrappers made from oil as you pollute the atmosphere with your farts and eat food from farting cows and drive cars that put out fumes reveals your vote...doesn't it?

Exploitation is fine....

And as Sisko said..."I can live with that..."

So will mankind explore space..or exploit it under the guise of exploring it?

Rob

 

[cultcross]

Unless you are planning to have non-consensual sex with space, 'rape' is an inappropriate word.

 

[Hermiod]

^It's not RobertScorpio's term. Kira used it to describe the Cardassian's treatment of Bajor - strip-mining the planet - during the occupation.

 

[Deckerd]

There's nothing in 'space' to exploit. There are lumps of stuff spinning around in it but they're a long way off so the only ones with any chance of being exploited are the ones nearest to us.

 

[cultcross]

^It's not RobertScorpio's term. Kira used it to describe the Cardassian's treatment of Bajor - strip-mining the planet - during the occupation.

Same applies to her then. I apologise if it offends, but I find the casual use of 'rape' to refer to things like poor resource management to be inflammatory and unnecessary.

 

[RobertScorpio]

^It's not RobertScorpio's term. Kira used it to describe the Cardassian's treatment of Bajor - strip-mining the planet - during the occupation.

Same applies to her then. I apologise if it offends, but I find the casual use of 'rape' to refer to things like poor resource management to be inflammatory and unnecessary.

Yeah...if i could change that to something else I would....sorry if it offended you..

Rob

 

[iguana_tonante]

...gives the term "gaping vagina" a whole new level of meaning.

 

[cultcross]

^It's not RobertScorpio's term. Kira used it to describe the Cardassian's treatment of Bajor - strip-mining the planet - during the occupation.

Same applies to her then. I apologise if it offends, but I find the casual use of 'rape' to refer to things like poor resource management to be inflammatory and unnecessary.

Yeah...if i could change that to something else I would....sorry if it offended you..

Rob

No worries, just a pet hate, ignore me

 

[RobertScorpio]

There's nothing in 'space' to exploit. There are lumps of stuff spinning around in it but they're a long way off so the only ones with any chance of being exploited are the ones nearest to us.

Eventually we will exploit all the planets and moons here in our system...but if they had technology tomorrow that could take us to other worlds out there? We'd be out there either to bring back what we find out there or to plant our flag and take our ideas out there....why else go???

Rob

 

[Mistral]

I have long pointed out that we have finite resources here on Earth. I have also been a staunch believer in the idea that we live in a system of (?)9 planets and countless moons that are uninhabited. If no one is using them-shouldn't we? There are resources out there-let's go get'em! As a push to the exploration to space, the idea of getting stuff out of our neighbors makes sense. No one is using the resources-why shouldn't we?

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

^It's not RobertScorpio's term. Kira used it to describe the Cardassian's treatment of Bajor - strip-mining the planet - during the occupation.

Same applies to her then. I apologise if it offends, but I find the casual use of 'rape' to refer to things like poor resource management to be inflammatory and unnecessary.

The word in its archaic form does mean: to seize and take by force; despoil.

The other denotative and connotative meaning of the word, as has already been pointed out by cultcross, should've been taken into consideration by the OP when starting this thread. Moreover, to exploit the resources and mine them is a far cry from seizing by force or plundering. Because in this case the "exploitation of space" being discussed here is the utilization of resources.

I doubt that if we go above and beyond that we'll be taking planets by the dozen and strip mining them from the local inhabitants, if there are any. I have to side with Octavia Butler on that one -- if there be life out there, then it will not be us as the conquerors but, rather, the conquered.

 

[RobertScorpio]

^It's not RobertScorpio's term. Kira used it to describe the Cardassian's treatment of Bajor - strip-mining the planet - during the occupation.

Same applies to her then. I apologise if it offends, but I find the casual use of 'rape' to refer to things like poor resource management to be inflammatory and unnecessary.

The word in its archaic form does means: to seize and take by force; despoil.

The other denotative and connotative meaning of the word, as has already been pointed out by cultcross, should've been taken into consideration by the OP when starting this thread. Moreover, to exploit the resources and mine them is a far cry from seizing by force or plundering. Because in this case the "exploitation of space" being discussed here is the utilization of resources.

I doubt that if we go above and beyond that we'll be taking planets by the dozen and strip mining them from the local inhabitants, if there are any. I have to side with Octavia Butler on that one -- if there be life out there, then it will not be us as the conquerors but, rather, the conquered.

Couldn't disagree more. We will exploit as we go, and take by force either from each other, or other 'life', what we want..that is our way. We are masters at it...always have been..

Rob

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Same applies to her then. I apologise if it offends, but I find the casual use of 'rape' to refer to things like poor resource management to be inflammatory and unnecessary.

The word in its archaic form does means: to seize and take by force; despoil.

The other denotative and connotative meaning of the word, as has already been pointed out by cultcross, should've been taken into consideration by the OP when starting this thread. Moreover, to exploit the resources and mine them is a far cry from seizing by force or plundering. Because in this case the "exploitation of space" being discussed here is the utilization of resources.

I doubt that if we go above and beyond that we'll be taking planets by the dozen and strip mining them from the local inhabitants, if there are any. I have to side with Octavia Butler on that one -- if there be life out there, then it will not be us as the conquerors but, rather, the conquered.

Couldn't disagree more. We will exploit as we go, and take by force either from each other, or other 'life', what we want..that is our way. We are masters at it...always have been..

Rob

Then I suppose your choice of word -- to despoil -- was appropriate to your view of humanity's manifest destiny in space.

 

[Neroon]

This actually seems to be a discussion more suited for the "Science and Technology" forum.

 

[Bad Bishop]

Seeing how mankind has been for the past 5000 years, I see no hope that we will ever, peacefully, explore space like they do in Star Trek. I see a future more like ALIENS where we are just up there mining for whatever it is we mine for in these futuristic movies....

I think STAR TREK's main attraction is this hopeful future where we are all one big happy planet and we love each other. But I just don't see that... ever.

I don't foresee the day that Earthmen will acquire or invent faster-than-light transportation, and then go off into the universe and become the bigshots on the block.

Let's say that extraterrestrial intelligence exists in surprising abundance. If so it is reasonable to assume that most space-faring civilizations will be vastly older than ours. As I understand it, our solar system is much younger than many others in the galaxy, and this means that many alien civilizations may have a huge head start on us. If Earthmen ever travel the stars they will probably be shocked to find that they are the kindergarteners out there.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Seeing how mankind has been for the past 5000 years, I see no hope that we will ever, peacefully, explore space like they do in Star Trek. I see a future more like ALIENS where we are just up there mining for whatever it is we mine for in these futuristic movies....

I think STAR TREK's main attraction is this hopeful future where we are all one big happy planet and we love each other. But I just don't see that... ever.

I don't foresee the day that Earthmen will acquire or invent faster-than-light transportation, and then go off into the universe and become the bigshots on the block.

Let's say that extraterrestrial intelligence exists in surprising abundance. If so it is reasonable to assume that most space-faring civilizations will be vastly older than ours. As I understand it, our solar system is much younger than many others in the galaxy, and this means that many alien civilizations may have a huge head start on us. If Earthmen ever travel the stars they will probably be shocked to find that they are the kindergarteners out there.

Or it could be the other way. We could go out and be on-par, or if not more advanced than the others. Right now we just don't know. But IMO when we go, we will find exploitation going on and we will just go along with what is being done...and eventually fight over it...we love to fight. And I think they will like to fight too...

I just hope they have hot looking chics...

Rob

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

^Unfortunately, the majority of our TV-SF, especially the American space opera ones, have shown an Anglo-Saxon imperialistic notion of space travel, which I feel is influencing some of the opinions in this thread.

 

[RobertScorpio]

^Unfortunately, the majority of our TV-SF, especially the American space opera ones, have shown an Anglo-Saxon imperialistic notion of space travel, which I feel is influencing some of the opinions in this thread.

Well...all you have to do is read history. Which I do...most of the time. And when reading world history, no matter who's view you take; man kind exploits his surroundings. He always has. From cutting down trees to build houses or boats or killing animals to make weapons or killing others who are 'in your way'. The west..the east..and the FAR east..have all done this.

To say that other species in space wouldn't is a bit too much since, as far as I know, we have no data either way. But I know our history....and thats good enough for me to know that it wont be pretty.

Rob

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

^Unfortunately, the majority of our TV-SF, especially the American space opera ones, have shown an Anglo-Saxon imperialistic notion of space travel, which I feel is influencing some of the opinions in this thread.

Well...all you have to do is read history. Which I do...most of the time. And when reading world history, no matter who's view you take; man kind exploits his surroundings. He always has. From cutting down trees to build houses or boats or killing animals to make weapons or killing others who are 'in your way'. The west..the east..and the FAR east..have all done this.

To say that other species in space wouldn't is a bit too much since, as far as I know, we have no data either way. But I know our history....and thats [sic] good enough for me to know that it wont be pretty.

Rob

I hold a minor in History, with an emphasis in Ancient Civilizations and Asian Cultures. I have READ history. And knowing history, to presume that we'll be on the top of an alien culture we encounter, is the same arrogant presumption that many of the Anglo-Saxon cultures had when encountering "primitives." Didn't work out so well for Magellan as I remember. Lapu-Lapu... look him up.

However, the universe is billions of years older than this spinning rock and to assume that, if there is other sapient life out there, we will be the conquerors is just an overinflated sense of importance in the grand fabric of things.

Will it be violent? No doubt. But in the end, I think we'll be the "primitives" slaughtered by the dozens.

Yes, man consumes. And yes, man will consume resources he finds in space. But I don't think we will be the imperialistic space-faring race if we encounter another space-traveling culture.

Moreover, there were also other Earthbound cultures that lived off the land without "raping" it before the influence of agriculture, the mechanization of society, and the brutalization of western imperialist.

Jared Diamond argues that maybe agriculture may have been the worst mistake of our society. Why? He says it created a deep class system where none really existed in hunter-gather societies. Moreover, he argues, it brought malnutrition, epidemic disease and starvation. (see:http://www.scribd.com/doc/2100251/Jared-Diamond-The-Worst-Mistake-in-the-History-of-the-Human-Race)

It's a far cry from utilizing one's surroundings to make due and live to being space conquerors. There are also other factors involved to consider, not just the actions taken in history, but the context in which they happened -- technology, social mores, population and scarcity.

It's fine to say "all you have to do is read history," but you also have to look beyond the names, dates and places. You also have to study the context of the actions taken. Sure, man's has utilized resources throughout history, but why? How? For what purpose? And to what affect and effect?

To say man has always done it and always will is a far too general an argument and an easy statement to make. Far too easy.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Will it be violent? No doubt. But in the end, I think we'll be the "primitives" slaughtered by the dozens.

There is absolutely no way to prove this; either way.

Oh and as for primative man raping the land? My point is simple; had primative man known how to rape the land then he would have. My point is that primative man and modern man are more alike than you think. Just look how guns were taken up so easily by native Americans and you will see quite clearly that mankind will do what it takes to survive...and if raping the world can make my tribe better than your tribe then so be it...in fact, that is pretty much why we are where we are and how we are how we are....

Rob