starfleet navy?

[Cmdr Sho]

Why would starfleet need a planetary navy?

 

[Kaziarl]

I wasn't aware they had one specifically. Although if they did I would imagine it would be similar to how the current navy has infantry, communications, medical, R&D etc. and it was just another subset.

 

[USS Kongo]

Why would starfleet need a planetary navy?

To keep an eye on those pesky whales that Jim Kirk brought back from the 20th century in The Voyage Home.

Sean

 

[sbk1234]

I'd think it would function more like the Coast Guard. Seeing more to the safety side of nautical issues. Or maybe even like a local harbor patrol or something, but on a planetary scale.

 

[Fury]

Tom Paris apparently considered joining in the Federation Naval Patrol

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Federation_Naval_Patrol

 

[Cmdr Sho]

i see it as point less... why have that when a starship would be better or even a shuttle...

 

[Sci]

i see it as point less... why have that when a starship would be better or even a shuttle...

Presumably because the person in question loves the sea.

Though why there would be a Federation-wide organization for oceans is beyond me. Surely that's the sort of duty that could be handled by the Member planets themselves without needing Federation help -- the equivalent of a state issue rather than a federal issue.

 

[Kaziarl]

i see it as point less... why have that when a starship would be better or even a shuttle...

Presumably because the person in question loves the sea.

Though why there would be a Federation-wide organization for oceans is beyond me. Surely that's the sort of duty that could be handled by the Member planets themselves without needing Federation help -- the equivalent of a state issue rather than a federal issue.

The coast guard is state by state, but what many people don't know is that is a branch of the navy. The National Guard is a branch of the army, but for the most part they are run at state level as well, not federal level. Although the federal government can request service from them, it's the Governor of the state that is their boss.

 

[The Wormhole]

I always viewed this "Federation Naval Patrol" as an organization devoted to exploring oceans on various planets. That's just speculation on my part.

Would be nice if the matter gets elaborated on someday. Future movies, TV series, hell even if Pocket Books did something about this Federation Naval Patrol. Hey. if they could bring Trip back from the dead...

 

[Colonel Midnight]

The coast guard is state by state, but what many people don't know is that is a branch of the navy. The National Guard is a branch of the army, but for the most part they are run at state level as well, not federal level. Although the federal government can request service from them, it's the Governor of the state that is their boss.

Sorry, but the U.S. Coast Guard, at least, is NOT a part of the Navy, nor is it 'state by state'. (I would suspect the 'U.S.' part of our full title might give it away? Maybe you're thinking 'Baywatch'?? )

We're under the Department of Homeland Security as the 5th branch of the U.S. military services. There's a reason why we're not part of the Navy -- posse comitatus, in a nutshell.

I'll give you points for trying, though...

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Chaos Descending]

The coast guard is state by state

No it isn't.

but what many people don't know is that is a branch of the navy.

No it isn't. It's part of the US Department of Homeland Security. It's not even a part of the Navy Department or the Department of Defense. During wartime it can be "loaned" to the Navy, but it not at all a part of the Navy.

The National Guard is a branch of the army, but for the most part they are run at state level as well, not federal level. Although the federal government can request service from them, it's the Governor of the state that is their boss.

Yeah, this is mostly true.

EDIT: Colonel Midnight, your post had not yet been posted when I began typing mine.

 

[Kaziarl]

The coast guard is state by state, but what many people don't know is that is a branch of the navy. The National Guard is a branch of the army, but for the most part they are run at state level as well, not federal level. Although the federal government can request service from them, it's the Governor of the state that is their boss.

Sorry, but the U.S. Coast Guard, at least, is NOT a part of the Navy, nor is it 'state by state'. (I would suspect the 'U.S.' part of our full title might give it away? Maybe you're thinking 'Baywatch'?? )

We're under the Department of Homeland Security as the 5th branch of the U.S. military services. There's a reason why we're not part of the Navy -- posse comitatus, in a nutshell.

I'll give you points for trying, though...

Cheers,
-CM-

The coast guard is state by state

No it isn't.

but what many people don't know is that is a branch of the navy.

No it isn't. It's part of the US Department of Homeland Security. It's not even a part of the Navy Department or the Department of Defense. During wartime it can be "loaned" to the Navy, but it not at all a part of the Navy.

The National Guard is a branch of the army, but for the most part they are run at state level as well, not federal level. Although the federal government can request service from them, it's the Governor of the state that is their boss.

Yeah, this is mostly true.

EDIT: Colonel Midnight, your post had not yet been posted when I began typing mine.

Yes, it is. The Coast Guard reports to the secretary of the navy. Look it up.

 

[Sci]

i see it as point less... why have that when a starship would be better or even a shuttle...

Presumably because the person in question loves the sea.

Though why there would be a Federation-wide organization for oceans is beyond me. Surely that's the sort of duty that could be handled by the Member planets themselves without needing Federation help -- the equivalent of a state issue rather than a federal issue.

The coast guard is state by state,

Um, no, it's not. You're confusing the United States Coast Guard with the US National Guard, I think. The USCG is an exclusively federal agency.

but what many people don't know is that is a branch of the navy.

Again, no. During peacetime, the USCG is a branch of the United States Department of Homeland Security. Only during declarations of war is it transferred to the Department of the Navy.

The National Guard is a branch of the army, but for the most part they are run at state level as well, not federal level.

Well, sort of. Each state organizes an Army National Guard service that is part of the United States Army Reserve and is part of the state militia. Each state also organizes an Air National Guard service that's part of the United States Air Force Reserve and part of the state militia. Many states also maintain their own State Defense Forces that operate under the states' sole authorities.

Although the federal government can request service from them, it's the Governor of the state that is their boss.

Not exactly. The President can press state National Guard services into federal service as part of the National Guard system, though their commanders-in-chief are normally the state Governors. It's the State Defense Forces that cannot be called into federal service.

Yes, it is. The Coast Guard reports to the secretary of the navy. Look it up.

I just did, and the United States Coast Guard disagrees with you.

Notice the heading at the top of their website:

"United States Coast Guard
U.S. Department of Homeland Security"

 

[Kaziarl]

Presumably because the person in question loves the sea.

Though why there would be a Federation-wide organization for oceans is beyond me. Surely that's the sort of duty that could be handled by the Member planets themselves without needing Federation help -- the equivalent of a state issue rather than a federal issue.

The coast guard is state by state,

Um, no, it's not. You're confusing the United States Coast Guard with the US National Guard, I think. The USCG is an exclusively federal agency.



Again, no. During peacetime, the USCG is a branch of the United States Department of Homeland Security. Only during declarations of war is it transferred to the Department of the Navy.

The National Guard is a branch of the army, but for the most part they are run at state level as well, not federal level.

Well, sort of. Each state organizes an Army National Guard service that is part of the United States Army Reserve and is part of the state militia. Each state also organizes an Air National Guard service that's part of the United States Air Force Reserve and part of the state militia. Many states also maintain their own State Defense Forces that operate under the states' sole authorities.

Although the federal government can request service from them, it's the Governor of the state that is their boss.

Not exactly. The President can press state National Guard services into federal service as part of the National Guard system, though their commanders-in-chief are normally the state Governors. It's the State Defense Forces that cannot be called into federal service.

I was in the military, specificaly the national guard. I know my chain of command, and i know how the military is organized. my sergeants made sure we knew this and considered it basic knowledge

 

[Sci]

I was in the military, specificaly the national guard. I know my chain of command, and i know how the military is organized. my sergeants made sure we knew this and considered it basic knowledge

Where you in the Army National Guard or Air National Guard?

But either way, they apparently didn't tell you how the Coast Guard is organized, considering that the USCG website is contradicting you.

 

[Kaziarl]

I was in the military, specificaly the national guard. I know my chain of command, and i know how the military is organized. my sergeants made sure we knew this and considered it basic knowledge

Where you in the Army National Guard or Air National Guard?

But either way, they apparently didn't tell you how the Coast Guard is organized, considering that the USCG website is contradicting you.

And yet they still report to the secretary of the navy... hmm... how interesting...

 

[Sci]

I was in the military, specificaly the national guard. I know my chain of command, and i know how the military is organized. my sergeants made sure we knew this and considered it basic knowledge

Where you in the Army National Guard or Air National Guard?

But either way, they apparently didn't tell you how the Coast Guard is organized, considering that the USCG website is contradicting you.

And yet they still report to the secretary of the navy... hmm... how interesting...

According to Title 10 of the United States Code, the United States Coast Guard only answers to the Secretary of the Navy when the Coast Guard has been transferred into the Department of the Navy during times or war or during such times as when the President may direct it to be so transferred.

From the United States Code:
(a) Whenever the Coast Guard operates as a service in the Navy under section 3 of title 14, the Secretary of the Navy has the same powers and duties with respect to the Coast Guard as the Secretary of Homeland Security has when the Coast Guard is not so operating.
(b) While operating as a service in the Navy, the Coast Guard is subject to the orders of the Secretary of the Navy, who may order changes in Coast Guard operations to make them uniform, to the extent he considers advisable, with Navy operations.

Title 14 concurs:

Upon the declaration of war if Congress so directs in the declaration or when the President directs, the Coast Guard shall operate as a service in the Navy, and shall so continue until the President, by Executive order, transfers the Coast Guard back to the Department of Homeland Security. While operating as a service in the Navy, the Coast Guard shall be subject to the orders of the Secretary of the Navy who may order changes in Coast Guard operations to render them uniform, to the extent he deems advisable, with Navy operations.

In other words, the United States Coast Guard is normally a division of the Department of Homeland Security and answers to the Secretary of Homeland Security. Only when the President has issued an executive order transferring them to the Department of the Navy are they such, and only then do they answer to the Secretary of the Navy.

 

[Colonel Midnight]

^ Thank you, Sci... I didn't feel like typing all that.

As my fellow classmates and I were taught at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy, the reality is actually something like this:

Q: What is the Coast Guard, Swab?
A: That hard nucleus of superior leaders that the Naaaavy forms about in times of war for guidance, Sir!

(Usually accompanied by a hacking cough or spit during the long, stretched 'Navy' part!)

This is in jest, in case anyone can't figure it out. No offense to my USN brethren or those in DoD, of course. (You're all allowed a few mistakes in life. )

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[-Brett-]

Why would starfleet need a planetary navy?

For defense, presumably.

Seems to me that if your planet's invaded, having a bunch of heavily armed, mobile bases could only be a good thing.

 

[Sci]

Why would starfleet need a planetary navy?

For defense, presumably.

Seems to me that if your planet's invaded, having a bunch of heavily armed, mobile bases could only be a good thing.

Not really. If your planet's been invaded, then presumably the enemy would be more than capable of sinking an ocean-bound ship from orbit, or at least from the air. The only real hope there would be that your ship is somehow able to evade detection -- but that seems highly unlikely, especially since the Federation doesn't allow cloaking technology.

A planetary naval patrol would almost certainly still be necessary, though, just like you'd always need to have a police force. After all, there's nothing stopping piracy on the high seas, and you'll need someone out there to help regulate traffic on the seas (since it seem unlikely to me that ocean-going traffic would just disappear).