Robert McCall TMP spockwalk sketches

[trevanian]

Came across some stuff that even I hadn't seen before at McCall's site (he is selling these, TGT!)
http://www.mccallstudios.com/original-sales.html

 

[GodThingFormerly]

...and you had to alert me to their existence the day after I purchased that damned ivory backscratcher?! But seriously, for charcoal studies they look fantastic.

TGT

 

[trevanian]

...and you had to alert me to their existence the day after I purchased that damned ivory backscratcher?!

TGT

Teeg, you tusksucker!

That's what you get for missing staff meetings.

EDIT - actually, I only just came across it. I was looking for some HD caps of 2001 and mccall's moonbase poster from 2001 and just happened to hit it big.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

This is yet another aspect of the DE that scorched my buns. Trumbull had to drop most of the McCall/Negron concepts from the Spock EVA sequence due to time constraints, and that would have been the perfect opportunity to recreate them from the original artwork and have Jerry Goldsmith rescore the - presumably longer - scene, in much the same manner as film preservationist Robert A. Harris brought Maurice Jarre back to rescore the 1989 restoration of Lawrence of Arabia.

TGT

 

[Indysolo]

This is yet another aspect of the DE that scorched my buns. Trumbull had to drop most of the McCall/Negron concepts from the Spock EVA sequence due to time constraints, and that would have been the perfect opportunity to recreate them from the original artwork and have Jerry Goldsmith rescore the - presumably longer - scene, in much the same manner as film preservationist Robert A. Harris brought Maurice Jarre back to rescore the 1989 restoration of Lawrence of Arabia.

TGT

Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated. There was no re-scoring done on Lawrence.

Think about music.

Neil

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Non sequitur. Your facts are uncoordinated. There was no re-scoring done on Lawrence.

I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in that 1989 Entertainment Tonight segment about the theatrical premiere of the restored LoA, but even if I am imagining this, so what? Jerry Goldsmith was a still alive and working when Sharpline Arts convinced PHE to let them vandalize ST:TMP and there is no physical law stating that a film composer cannot expand a music cue twenty years after he originally wrote it.

TGT

 

[Indysolo]

...there is no physical law stating that a film composer cannot expand a music cue twenty years after he originally wrote it.

Unless of course the cue in question is the brilliant "Spock Walk". And of course you're forgetting another little thing: Jerry Goldsmith didn't work for free and neither would the musicians or the engineers involved. Yes, I know he was a great artist and shouldn't be motivated by such things as money and reality, but such is life. What you are proposing would have blown The Director's Edition budget in no time flat. And since Jerry's score is the one in-arguably great thing about all versions of the film, it would be sensible to allocate the funds to things that definitely needed to be fixed.

Goldsmith was interviewed for The Director's Edition and was happy with it, especially since the methodology for shortening some scenes was to cut the music first and then match the picture to it.

Neil

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Unless of course the cue in question is the brilliant "Spock Walk". And of course you're forgetting another little thing: Jerry Goldsmith didn't work for free and neither would the musicians or the engineers involved. Yes, I know he was a great artist and shouldn't be motivated by such things as money and reality, but such is life.

When have I ever proclaimed that Hollywood professionals shouldn't be paid their going rates for any project, including film restorations/completions?

What you are proposing would have blown The Director's Edition budget in no time flat.

True. Fein & Matessino were obliged to decline the project based on the ridiculous $500,000 budget PHE offered them, most of which apparently didn't even reach the DE itself.

And since Jerry's score is the one in-arguably great thing about all versions of the film, it would be sensible to allocate the funds to things that definitely needed to be fixed.

I would have expected that as well, but then we got superfluous crap like replacing the "departure angle" view of Earth, adding a travelpod to the SOC and ruining 23rd century San Francisco.

Goldsmith was interviewed for The Director's Edition and was happy with it, especially since the methodology for shortening some scenes was to cut the music first and then match the picture to it.

What relevance does that have to my post? I proposed extending the Spock EVA sequence in accordance with Robert McCall's original artwork, not trimming it.

TGT

 

[Indysolo]

Fein & Matessino should have declined the project based on the ridiculous $500,000 budget PHE offered them, most of which apparently didn't even reach the DE itself.

That's borderline slander, isn't it?

Goldsmith was interviewed for The Director's Edition and was happy with it, especially since the methodology for shortening some scenes was to cut the music first and then match the picture to it.

What relevance does that have to my post? I proposed extending the Spock EVA sequence in accordance with Robert McCall's original artwork, not trimming it.

Reading your posts there always is a bit of negativity attached and it seemed like you were implying that Goldsmith was not involved with it. If I was projecting your deep-seated hatred a little too much into your written words, I apologize.

But remember, it's not "Star Trek - The Robert McCall Picture". Just because he had many ideas for the movie doesn't mean they all had to be used. And these sketches look like very early ideas that were refined into what we got in the final film.

Neil

 

[GodThingFormerly]

That's borderline slander, isn't it?

My source at PHE would have had little reason to lie about the studio's suspicions.

Reading your posts there always is a bit of negativity attached and it seemed like you were implying that Goldsmith was not involved with it. If I was projecting your deep-seated hatred a little too much into your written words, I apologize.

When have I ever expressed anything but the greatest admiration for Jerry Goldsmith? It wasn't his fault that Fein, Matessino and Dochterman didn't have the first clue about how to approach ST:TMP's completion and apotheosis.

But remember, it's not "Star Trek - The Robert McCall Picture". Just because he had many ideas for the movie doesn't mean they all had to be used. And these sketches look like very early ideas that were refined into what we got in the final film.

Doug Trumbull noted in Cinefex #1 that McCall came up with "literally dozens of large-scale paintings" for the EVA sequence. He also stated in the next paragraph that the effects crews were under such incredible time pressure by that point that their operating slogan became "crop it, flop it, or drop it". I think this sufficiently indicates that what finally got on the screen in 1979 was only a fraction of what the original filmmakers intended to show us.

TGT

 

[Christopher]

Goldsmith was interviewed for The Director's Edition and was happy with it, especially since the methodology for shortening some scenes was to cut the music first and then match the picture to it.

Indeed, Goldsmith originally wrote the V'ger flyover cues with the possibility of cutting in mind, which is why they have a lot of repetitive portions that could easily be trimmed. It was always intended that those sequences could be trimmed down in the final cut as Wise refined the pacing, but the locked premiere date forced them to release a rough cut of the film to theaters. The DE was basically finishing the job the way it was meant to be finished 22 years earlier, and the cuts made to Goldsmith's cues were just the kind of cuts he designed them to accommodate.

Fein & Matessino should have declined the project based on the ridiculous $500,000 budget PHE offered them, most of which apparently didn't even reach the DE itself.

That's borderline slander, isn't it?

Oh, heavens, no.

It's in print, so it would be libel.

 

[trevanian]

I wonder when somebody is going to go back to Wise's notes from 79 and recut the movie the way he ACTUALLY wanted it, not the way SharpLine seems to have conned him into thinking he wanted it. TMP may wind up like Welles' TOUCH OF EVIL, where people revisit it periodically trying to get it the way it was intended (though at least on TOUCH it seems like the folks involved are actually making progress with each new version.)

You have Wise interviews from the era indicating drydock is a minute too long, so I guess that is one place where you have to cut into the Goldsmith score as well (too bad there isn't as much repetition in the score there, huh?)

You also have John Dykstra saying that Wise was unsatisfied with the exterior wormhole sequence, the cuts of the ship in the wormhole, so I guess there's another chance to put a lower-rez Ent into a 'scope pattern.

Maybe to avoid offending certain folks, we should cut the line about making god in our own image too (oops, they already did that for the DE, didn't they.)

 

[trevanian]

Fein & Matessino should have declined the project based on the ridiculous $500,000 budget PHE offered them, most of which apparently didn't even reach the DE itself.

That's borderline slander, isn't it?

It is hard for me to figure where they spent the money, even though what they were allotted was ludicrously low given the kind of restoration that was needed. A few bad, mediocre or okay vfx shots, a lousy lifted-from-cd sound mix, alleged cleaning of the film ... it doesn't look much improved to me.

They spent 20 times this fixing up the original SW in 97, which was actually in as bad a shape as TMP, but you can see the results (I'm not talking about the JabbaCrap, I'm talking about restoring the film quality on the original end of things.) Considering trekproduct is something they can keep coughing out and generating profit from, it seems more than shortsighted to do a quarter-assed job (more like an ass-crack job, they have no cheek) that is so modest in its aspirations.

 

[cardinal biggles]

I guess that's the difference between Trek and Wars as franchises. Say what you want about Special Editions and the prequels, but the whole thing is by and large the product of one man: George Lucas. It also helps that Lucasfilm retains ownership of the six films, giving Lucas the freedom to do what he wants and spend as much money as he wants restoring them (yay!) as well as mucking around with them (Han shot first!).

Trek, on the other hand, has long been a corporate product with the top man on the totem pole being as replaceable as everyone else. That thinking has shown in the way Paramount low-balled the movie budgets starting with TWOK as a way to maximize profits, as well as the almost cynical way they double- and triple-dip on home video releases, with price points set astronomically high, yet they're confident that their captive audience of Trekkies will open their wallets yet again and gobble it all up (and they do). Why spend $10 million fixing up a movie when you can just spend $500,000 and most of the fans will stare slack-jawed in amazement, not aware of what could have been?

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Maybe to avoid offending certain folks, we should cut the line about making god in our own image too (oops, they already did that for the DE, didn't they.)

It would take a remarkably obtuse asshole to be offended by a concept that has been proposed by great philosophical and literary figures ranging from Xenophanes of Colophon to William Butler Yeats. Arthur C. Clarke even weighed in on subject in his 1965 non-fiction collection, Voices from the Sky - Previews of the Coming Space Age:

"The rash assertion that 'God created man in His own Image' is ticking like a time bomb at the foundations of many faiths."

That line, coincidentally, formed the basic plot of Ben Bova's 1981 LitSF novel, Voyagers.

Why spend $10 million fixing up a movie when you can just spend $500,000 and most of the fans will stare slack-jawed in amazement, not aware of what could have been?

Ouch.

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit Prozac.

TGT

 

[cardinal biggles]

It's not too hard to be cynical about the way Paramount has treated Trek over the years; the good stuff (and I know we have vastly different definitions of that ) seems to be in spite of Paramount's involvement rather than because of, and the corporate parent more often than not seems to hinder the very franchise they want to make shitloads of money from.

 

[Maurice]

Speaking of the DE's limited "improvements", Doug Drexler's blog makes it appear that it's he and Mike Okuda who redesigned San Francisco for the DE.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Speaking of the DE's limited "improvements", Doug Drexler's blog makes it appear that it's he and Mike Okuda who redesigned San Francisco for the DE.

I knew that Drexler had extended a pseudopod into the SF sequence since my brief and uninspired e-mail exchange with Matessino back in early 2001, but Okuda? I must say that whatever regard I had for the gentleman has by this point more or less completely evaporated. BTW, aside from my countless objections to the way the cityscape was designed and executed for the DE, the San Drexkuda (complete with the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge) seen in this screencap no longer corresponds with Matthew Yuricich's painting of the city peninsula and Marin County as seen from orbit in this screencap (orient the image in your brain so that the top left corner of the frame is south and and the bottom right corner is north), which clearly shows the absence of the Bay Bridge along with Alameda County, which will presumably vanish into the depths of the Hayward Fault during a major seismic event that will occur at some point between now and 2279. Gene Roddenberry was apparently rather enamored with the idea of California's Central Valley reverting to an inland sea (as John Saxon's Dylan Hunt noted in Planet Earth), so I am somewhat surprised and disappointed that Okuda didn't take GR's intentions into account. Incidentally, if you look closely just to the right of the SOC's main truss in this screencap from the 720p24 bootleg of ST:TMP, you can see the Pacific side of the "Colma Strait" which rendered the San Francisco peninsula an island, just as both Harold Livingston and Gene Roddenberry described it in their respective In Thy Image teleplays.

TGT

 

[Maurice]

^^^Angel Island's gone, too! I never connected that with San Francisco because the coastlines are virtually unrecognizable. Must've been some seismic event to sink Burlingame and the hills between it and Pacifica, and yet leave the Golden Gate Bridge standing.

If the bridge is where I think it is in the screencap. I could probably figure out what's new and old land fairly easily.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Angel Island's gone, too!

Along with Belvedere Island and the Tiburon peninsula. Yuricich took that into account when painting the view north through the skytram terminal entrance in this screencap.

I never connected that with San Francisco because the coastlines are virtually unrecognizable. Must've been some seismic event to sink Colma and the hills between it and Pacifica...

The Colma Formation is mostly just unconsolidated sand, so it wouldn't take that much of a shock to destabilize. Presumably the remains will be dredged out and a bridge (equipped with Planetran tubes a la the Golden Gate, naturally) built to reconnect San Francisco Island with San Mateo or whatever region will form the opposing shore.

...and to fill in the bay between the city and Alcatraz!

I must disgree. It appears to me that the "bight" visible on the left in this screencap would be caused by the liquefaction and collapse of the landfill upon which was (stupidly) built the Marina District during a future quake, not by the land extending north into the Bay.

On the plus side, being landlocked, the eyesore that is Fishman's Wharf would stop being a tourist trap....

Actually, all of the city's piers were consolidated into a single structure anchored at what is approximately China Basin in order to free the coastline for beach and parkland development as proposed in 1939 by industrial designer Walter Dorwin Teague, but the placement of the SOC blocks it from view.

If the bridge is where I think it is in the screencap. I could probably figure out what's new and old land fairly easily.

TrekBBS.com member aridas sofia sketched over that screencap an outline of the present day peninsula when I brought this to his attention a couple of months ago.

Oh, and this is how San Francisco/Coruscant by the Bay is going to be presented in ST:XI:

It's uncannily like J.J. Abrams is a fellow resident of Russian Hill (and member of RHN) with identical concerns about highrise development turning SF into another Miami. No, seriously.

TGT