TOS fans. Was TNG's 'Relics' respectful or disrespectful of TOS?

[Captain Robert April]

I think that bit is reflective of the author's mindset, in this case one Peter David.

From what I understand, he completely misreads Jellico anyway, so this isn't surprising.

 

[paudemge]

One thing i didn't like and it didn't really start here, was saying that Scotty always grossly overestimated the time it would take to fix something when talking to the captain. 'How else can i be a miracle worker'
During TOS i always thought Scotty gave his best estimate.

 

[Noname Given]

Well gee, the same people who decided that Geordi should be impatient with Scotty were the ones who decided that:

a) The star of the show - Picard - should like and respect him;
b) Scotty should save the day;
c) The production should spend money to recreate the TOS bridge because it would be really, really cool.

That pretty much settles the question of what the writers' attitudes toward TOS were. There aren't many people on this BBS who are as admiring of or knowledgable about the original "Star Trek" as were the majority of writers, artists and other production people who worked on TNG.

That some fans find so much to complain about in this regard is not a shortcoming of the show.

Aside from all of that, "Relics" gave James Doohan his one and only opportunity to really be the star and central character in a "Star Trek" production. Bless the folks at TNG for that.

I'll agree,largely respectful overall; but I kind of felt they turned Scotty into a bit of an 'old fool' occasionally, that I didn't care for; and having him utter some new technobabble about needing a 'proper phase lock' when refering to the events in The Naked Time - when in fact they simply stated "You can't mix matter and anti-matter cold'; and he was simply trying to raise the anti-matter tempurature as high as possible, etc didn't sit well with me as I always hated TNG style techno babble.

As for 'rebuilding the bridge' - come on - for that episode it was a corner of the turbo lift; and a small portion of the engineering station. The rest was a still shot of the bridge gren-screened from This Side of Of Paradise.

Overall, and to this day, I don't think the production staff of TNG held the characters or stories from the original Star Trek in such high regard. You just need to look at the crap they spewed forth in the feature film Star Trek: Generations a little over a year later to see that (imo).

 

[Brutal Strudel]

One thing i didn't like and it didn't really start here, was saying that Scotty always grossly overestimated the time it would take to fix something when talking to the captain. 'How else can i be a miracle worker'
During TOS i always thought Scotty gave his best estimate.

That bugged the shit out of me, too--I thought it was a clumsy and dull bit of extraneous "continuity" that completely mis-read the character and the point of the joke in TSFS. Of course Scotty didn't multiply his repair estimates in TOS, he was just trying to cheer up his CO whom he knew needed it. I was all of 14 when I first saw the movie and I grasped that subtle concept.

RDM--unlike either of the Beebs--loved and respected TOS but then so do the people who write bad Mary Sue fanfics. I like RDM in general--DS9 is my favorite of the spin-offs (I have few complaints about "Trials & Tribble-ations": I like it more than TOS episode it riffs on) and I love NuBSG--but this episode played like really bad fanfic. I have the same problem with Peter David.

 

[Mike Okuda]

As for 'rebuilding the bridge' - come on - for that episode it was a corner of the turbo lift; and a small portion of the engineering station. The rest was a still shot of the bridge gren-screened from This Side of Of Paradise.

Sorry you didn't like parts of the episode, but I thought Ron Moore did a wonderful job of paying tribute to a beloved character.

And I can personally vouch that re-creating that part of the bridge was a huge amount of work. Richard James (our production designer) was under considerable pressure to re-use the Enterprise-A bridge set. Richard (and our visual effects team) exercised considerable ingenuity to make it possible to use the original bridge.

 

[CaptainStoner]

I'm rewatching it now, as we speak. Geordi's attitude towards Scotty in the episode got me thinking. Is LaForge's attitude indicative of the writer's attitude towards TOS? Everyone (except Picard) treats Scott as though he is, well, a relic, and a useless old man. What do TOS fans think of this episode? Does it honour, or belittle the original series?

It's a great Star Trek episode, the underlying theme being on aging. It fits LaForge also, he's always been a nice guy on the outside, but more business when there's a crunch. Geordi always seemed a character that was a little too honest for his own good, which made him more likeable.
One of my favorite TNG episodes. Love the 'turning point' scene with Scotty on the old bridge, definetly a magic moment. The old engineering set footage might have made some more sense in a way, but seeing him on the old bridge was awesome.
I think they also had Kirk's chair for Scotty to sit on, with his bottle of green stuff.

 

[Captain Robert April]

My understanding, and I'm sure Mike will correct me if he's still paying attention, was that the helm was a fan recreation and loaned/rented to the production, whereas the command chair was the original...which was, in the eyes of the studio, stolen property and reclaimed on the spot, much to the chagrin of the poor shmuck who just thought he was helping out the show by bringing it in for the episode.

 

[Semah]

One thing i didn't like and it didn't really start here, was saying that Scotty always grossly overestimated the time it would take to fix something when talking to the captain. 'How else can i be a miracle worker'
During TOS i always thought Scotty gave his best estimate.

KIRK
Your timing is excellent, Mr.
Scott. You've fixed the barn door
after the horse has come home.
How much refit time till we can
take her out again?

SCOTTY
Eight weeks, sir.
(as Kirk opens
his mouth)
But you don't have eight weeks so
I'll do it for ya in two.

KIRK
(considers)
Mr. Scott. Have you always
multiplied your repair estimates
by a factor of four?

SCOTTY
Certainly, sir. How else can I
keep my reputation as a miracle
worker?

 

[Mike Okuda]

My understanding, and I'm sure Mike will correct me if he's still paying attention, was that the helm was a fan recreation and loaned/rented to the production, whereas the command chair was the original...which was, in the eyes of the studio, stolen property and reclaimed on the spot, much to the chagrin of the poor shmuck who just thought he was helping out the show by bringing it in for the episode.

Both the helm console and the captain's chair were rented to us by Steve Horch, who has worked for years as a prop maker, creating many cool gadgets for our episodes. I believe that "Relics" was his first professional job in the film industry. The studio later bought those items from Steve for use in a museum exhibit.

 

[CaptainStoner]

I miss my old chair.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

One thing i didn't like and it didn't really start here, was saying that Scotty always grossly overestimated the time it would take to fix something when talking to the captain. 'How else can i be a miracle worker'
During TOS i always thought Scotty gave his best estimate.

KIRK
Your timing is excellent, Mr.
Scott. You've fixed the barn door
after the horse has come home.
How much refit time till we can
take her out again?

SCOTTY
Eight weeks, sir.
(as Kirk opens
his mouth)
But you don't have eight weeks so
I'll do it for ya in two.

KIRK
(considers)
Mr. Scott. Have you always
multiplied your repair estimates
by a factor of four?

SCOTTY
Certainly, sir. How else can I
keep my reputation as a miracle
worker?

KIRK
Your reputation is secure.

Sounds like a joke to me, one Kirk fully understood.

 

[Red Ranger]

When did they ever save the universe?

I did add, "as we know it." There were the massive changes to the timeline in "City on the Edge of Forever", that amoeba that ate life and would have replicated to fill the universe, the events of "Assignment: Earth", and a few others that are more debatable, like V'Ger, Nomad, and the events of Star Trek IV.

Admittedly, only the amoeba thing might have been widely known out of the first three, but one would still think that saving even "just" Earth on three separate occasions would warrant being remembered!

The amoeba thing reminds me of the New Frontier novels where Admiral Jellico laughs about how Starfleet thought Kirk made stuff up like the giant amoeba and all the Starfleet Admiralty would laugh at his reportst thinking they were whoppers. Might be the opinion of 24th century Earth Starfleet about some of the TOS missions.

Let's not forget The Doomsday Machine. The planet killer may not have been able to destroy the universe, but it was on its way to the most densely populated region of known space, and would have killed billions if Enterprise, with the help of Commodore Decker, not stopped it. -- RR

 

[Captain Robert April]

My understanding, and I'm sure Mike will correct me if he's still paying attention, was that the helm was a fan recreation and loaned/rented to the production, whereas the command chair was the original...which was, in the eyes of the studio, stolen property and reclaimed on the spot, much to the chagrin of the poor shmuck who just thought he was helping out the show by bringing it in for the episode.

Both the helm console and the captain's chair were rented to us by Steve Horch, who has worked for years as a prop maker, creating many cool gadgets for our episodes. I believe that "Relics" was his first professional job in the film industry. The studio later bought those items from Steve for use in a museum exhibit.

Well, there we go.

So, just what is the story regarding the original chair? Did the studio know about the whereabouts of it at the time of "Relics"? I know it didn't go up for auction on eBay until long after.

 

[Semah]

I did add, "as we know it." There were the massive changes to the timeline in "City on the Edge of Forever", that amoeba that ate life and would have replicated to fill the universe, the events of "Assignment: Earth", and a few others that are more debatable, like V'Ger, Nomad, and the events of Star Trek IV.

Admittedly, only the amoeba thing might have been widely known out of the first three, but one would still think that saving even "just" Earth on three separate occasions would warrant being remembered!

The amoeba thing reminds me of the New Frontier novels where Admiral Jellico laughs about how Starfleet thought Kirk made stuff up like the giant amoeba and all the Starfleet Admiralty would laugh at his reportst thinking they were whoppers. Might be the opinion of 24th century Earth Starfleet about some of the TOS missions.

Let's not forget The Doomsday Machine. The planet killer may not have been able to destroy the universe, but it was on its way to the most densely populated region of known space, and would have killed billions if Enterprise, with the help of Commodore Decker, not stopped it. -- RR

Or Nomad, who was nigh-indestructible, and a wee bit capable of destroying everything and was about to head back to earth.

 

[The Sneeze Police]

I never, ever thought of it as disrespectful. I still remember my eyes welling with tears when Scotty & Picard where on the bridge.

I love differences in generations and how they work and interact...and this episode illustrated the beauty of people of different generations coming together to solve a crisis.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Much of TNG's reputation for being "anti-TOS" stems from the first two seasons (S1 more than S2) when Gene the Burn-Out was trying to distance the new show from it's origins for his own purposes. Once he was out of the producer's chair, things improved a LOT.

 

[Neopeius]

Relics is disrespectful to the watcher's intelligence. It's just so unbearably stupid in every possible way.

 

[A beaker full of death]

One thing i didn't like and it didn't really start here, was saying that Scotty always grossly overestimated the time it would take to fix something when talking to the captain. 'How else can i be a miracle worker'
During TOS i always thought Scotty gave his best estimate.

KIRK
Your timing is excellent, Mr.
Scott. You've fixed the barn door
after the horse has come home.
How much refit time till we can
take her out again?

SCOTTY
Eight weeks, sir.
(as Kirk opens
his mouth)
But you don't have eight weeks so
I'll do it for ya in two.

KIRK
(considers)
Mr. Scott. Have you always
multiplied your repair estimates
by a factor of four?

SCOTTY
Certainly, sir. How else can I
keep my reputation as a miracle
worker?

And it was a joke -- something the writers of Relics clearly didn't get.

And it was really, really cool to see Scotty back on that original bridge.

On that I agree.

 

[Red Ranger]

One thing i didn't like and it didn't really start here, was saying that Scotty always grossly overestimated the time it would take to fix something when talking to the captain. 'How else can i be a miracle worker'
During TOS i always thought Scotty gave his best estimate.

KIRK
Your timing is excellent, Mr.
Scott. You've fixed the barn door
after the horse has come home.
How much refit time till we can
take her out again?

SCOTTY
Eight weeks, sir.
(as Kirk opens
his mouth)
But you don't have eight weeks so
I'll do it for ya in two.

KIRK
(considers)
Mr. Scott. Have you always
multiplied your repair estimates
by a factor of four?

SCOTTY
Certainly, sir. How else can I
keep my reputation as a miracle
worker?

And it was a joke -- something the writers of Relics clearly didn't get.

And it was really, really cool to see Scotty back on that original bridge.

On that I agree.

I think the writers of Relics did get it, and they had Scotty pulling Geordi's leg. And they pulled the leg of some viewers. -- RR

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Jokes aside, there were kernels of truth to what Scotty was saying, as he later tried to explain to Geordi:

SCOTT
Starship captains are like children. They want everything right now and they want it their way... the secret is to give them what they need, not what they
want.

A good Chief Engineer has to be able to prioritize under any situation.

SCOTT
Where'd you get that idea?

Geordi looks out at him.

GEORDI
It's in the impulse engine specifications.

SCOTT
Regulation forty-two slash fifteen... "Pressure Variances
in IRC Tank Storage"?

GEORDI
Right.

SCOTT
Forget it. I wrote it.

Scott puts his head back in the console.

SCOTT
A good engineer is always a wee bit conservative... at least on paper. Just by-pass the secondary cut-off valve and boost the flow... it'll work.

Any good Engineer leaves himself room for a margin of error in his calculations.