I finished Buffy!

[Mr Light]

I actually thought Buffy became a shrill bitch in S4 and never stopped afterwards. In the first three years she was just about my favorite character, funny and witty and not TOO whiny. After that she just became awful. Her relationship with Riley... her domineering of Dawn... and of course the ultimate travesty her "relationship" with Spike in S6. Shudder.

 

[DigificWriter]

To the thread starter: Glad you enjoyed the series. Buffy is one of my all-time favorite TV series ever, and, even at its worst, the series was and is STILL better than almost anything else that is or was on TV.

On S7: I will probably never understand how people can rate Season 7 so highly; yes, the season had a lot of great concepts, but the execution of said concepts really leaves something to be desired... and no, I'm not the only person who holds this opinion. But I digress.

 

[RoJoHen]

On S7: I will probably never understand how people can rate Season 7 so highly; yes, the season had a lot of great concepts, but the execution of said concepts really leaves something to be desired... and no, I'm not the only person who holds this opinion. But I digress.

It's definitely not without its flaws, but I just really liked how they seemed to use the season to get back to "basics" of Buffy. There's more focus on the slayer legacy, the solitude that goes along with it. They bring back the focus on the Hellmouth, and I loved the return of the high school setting. Buffy's job made a lot more sense than the damn burger joint.

I dunno. Maybe it just seemed a lot better compared to Season 6, which I thought was a total shitfest. I'd be interested to rewatch the first few seasons to see how it compares to Season 7.

 

[Skywalker]

Buffy ends with season five, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[RoJoHen]

Eh, I wouldn't like that to be the end either. Not epic enough. A character like Buffy deserves a much bigger bad guy for her final adventure.

 

[DigificWriter]

RoJoHen: Like I said, S7 had a lot of great concepts, but they weren't executed correctly, which ultimately made the season suffer. There were also gross inconsistencies in terms of character development, overall story progression, carry over from previous seasons, and story decisions that didn't make sense or weren't thought out correctly.

Also, for what it's worth, Season 6 is not nearly as bad as people think it is. To me, it's a vastly underrated season. Yes, the characters go to some pretty dark places and become somewhat unrecognizable, but that's part of what makes the season, IMO, so brilliant; it's the BtVS equivalent to the ANGEL episode 'Epiphanies', except that the ephiphanies are covered in 22 episodes as opposed to just one.

 

[RoJoHen]

The characters in Season 6 were fine. I had no problems with what they were going through or the dark places they went.

But Warren, Jonathon, and Andrew as the Big Bad? Buffy workiing at the burger place? LAME.

Although I did like what they did with Andrew in Season 7,

 

[CorporalClegg]

Eh, I wouldn't like that to be the end either. Not epic enough. A character like Buffy deserves a much bigger bad guy for her final adventure.

In Glory's defense, she did come with solid theme-play and undertones for the story attached. Non of the others did that.

Plus, she was a riot.

And I'd argue season five was the most epic of them all. It was the one time in his career Whedon tried to be a writer and not just a storyteller. For what it's worth, I think he did a good job of it.

 

[RoJoHen]

^It's possible I was too busy hating Dawn to notice how good the rest of the season was.

I did like Glory, though. She was definitely a fun villain.

 

[Mr Light]

For those unaware, the original plan was to end the series with Season Five. Remember that bit where Glory mind-wipes Tara and Willow goes Dark but gets better and then Tara gets better? The original plan was that Glory kills Tara, Willow goes all Dark Phoenix, kills Glory, and the final battle which kills Buffy is against Dark Willow. The end. I think that's how it was supposed to go. I wonder if this is why S6 is so godawful... they had to stretch the ending of S5 over 1.5 seasons.

 

[Rii]

I loved S6, it's probably my favourite season behind S3. Of course, it's like comparing flavours of ice cream.

Regarding S7, I'm disappointed that they weren't able to use Tara opposite Willow in "Conversations With Dead People". It would've been painful to be sure, but without Tara that whole thread seems lacking.

 

[DarkProphet]

I also didn't like the fact that there was no final battle between The First and Buffy. The First is supposed to be like a final boss of the entire series. What a shame.

The characters in Season 6 were fine. I had no problems with what they were going through or the dark places they went.

But Warren, Jonathon, and Andrew as the Big Bad? Buffy workiing at the burger place? LAME.

Although I did like what they did with Andrew in Season 7,

What about Dark Willow? I thought she was the most menacing Big Bad in the series. I loved the last few episodes of season 6.

 

[CorporalClegg]

For those unaware, the original plan was to end the series with Season Five. Remember that bit where Glory mind-wipes Tara and Willow goes Dark but gets better and then Tara gets better? The original plan was that Glory kills Tara, Willow goes all Dark Phoenix, kills Glory, and the final battle which kills Buffy is against Dark Willow. The end. I think that's how it was supposed to go. I wonder if this is why S6 is so godawful... they had to stretch the ending of S5 over 1.5 seasons.

I think the first time I read about this I spent a week banging my head on my desk. Not only would it have been utter awesomeness, it would've negated to seasons of lame mediocrity.

 

[Kryton]

The reason S6 is "so godawful" (which I disagree with in general) is because of the amount of time focused on both writing and producing OMWF.

That, combined with Angel and developing Firefly took a lot of Joss's time and efforts and refocused them at the time.

 

[DS9Continuing]

1
In Glory's defense, she did come with solid theme-play and undertones for the story attached. Non of the others did that.

Plus, she was a riot.

And I'd argue season five was the most epic of them all. It was the one time in his career Whedon tried to be a writer and not just a storyteller. For what it's worth, I think he did a good job of it.

Interesting.

I'd like you to elaborate on what you mean here, if you wouldn't mind.

I also didn't like the fact that there was no final battle between The First and Buffy. The First is supposed to be like a final boss of the entire series. What a shame.

But the First isn't that kind of villain. Kind of the whole point of the character is that it can't do anything itself - its only power is in persuading other people to do things on its behalf. So if you don't allow it to persuade you, it can't do anything. That is Buffy's victory against it - that she took matters into her own hands and refused to play the First's game.

There can be no physical battle against the First, because it's not a corporeal entity.

 

[RoJoHen]

I also didn't like the fact that there was no final battle between The First and Buffy. The First is supposed to be like a final boss of the entire series. What a shame.

The characters in Season 6 were fine. I had no problems with what they were going through or the dark places they went.

But Warren, Jonathon, and Andrew as the Big Bad? Buffy workiing at the burger place? LAME.

Although I did like what they did with Andrew in Season 7,

What about Dark Willow? I thought she was the most menacing Big Bad in the series. I loved the last few episodes of season 6.

I did like Dark Willow a lot, but she was only there in the very end of the season. If the whole season had been like that, I would have liked it a lot better. Sadly, a few episodes at the end of the season can't salvage the rest for me.

 

[RoJoHen]

I also didn't like the fact that there was no final battle between The First and Buffy. The First is supposed to be like a final boss of the entire series. What a shame.

But the First isn't that kind of villain. Kind of the whole point of the character is that it can't do anything itself - its only power is in persuading other people to do things on its behalf. So if you don't allow it to persuade you, it can't do anything. That is Buffy's victory against it - that she took matters into her own hands and refused to play the First's game.

There can be no physical battle against the First, because it's not a corporeal entity.

But it was going to be! There were hints dropped the whole season.

That said, I didn't even necessarily need a physical fight between Buffy and The First, just something more than Buffy's "Get out of my face!"

 

[Kelthaz]

But the First isn't that kind of villain. Kind of the whole point of the character is that it can't do anything itself - its only power is in persuading other people to do things on its behalf. So if you don't allow it to persuade you, it can't do anything. That is Buffy's victory against it - that she took matters into her own hands and refused to play the First's game.

Although that's actually debatable. Some of us believe that Buffy played right into The First's game by killing off the slayer line. Sure, The First will have to wait about 80-100 years for that, but he's patient. The century wait also plays into Fray.

 

[Colin Xavier]

But the First isn't that kind of villain. Kind of the whole point of the character is that it can't do anything itself - its only power is in persuading other people to do things on its behalf. So if you don't allow it to persuade you, it can't do anything. That is Buffy's victory against it - that she took matters into her own hands and refused to play the First's game.

Although that's actually debatable. Some of us believe that Buffy played right into The First's game by killing off the slayer line. Sure, The First will have to wait about 80-100 years for that, but he's patient. The century wait also plays into Fray.

Is the Slayer line now dead? In the show it is stated that "every single girl who can be a slayer, will be a slayer" which probably includes girls conceived after the events of the episode.

 

[Ethros]

just something more than Buffy's "Get out of my face!"

Which took me over a year I think to realise was a pun