Sisko and Vreenak...
- Thread starter 2 of 10
- Start date
We didn't see Sisko put up any fight after the "It's a fake" line as it switched to his narration of the events. For all we know he got into a shouting match with the Romulan senator for 10 minutes. For the narration it didn't really matter, the main point was that Sisko's lie had been found out.
...Also, odds are that Vreenak didn't need any analysis to decide that the rod was a fake. He assumed that from the outset, and no amount of convincing and no number of expert statements could ever have convinced him otherwise. The more Sisko argued, the less cooperative Vreenak would become.
Really, the rod was established to be almost impossible to forge convincingly because even "tiny imperfections" would make it a fake. So, a real rod would also be a fake to any predisposed analyst, since "tiny imperfections" could always be found or imagined!
Timo Saloniemi
Really, the rod was established to be almost impossible to forge convincingly because even "tiny imperfections" would make it a fake. So, a real rod would also be a fake to any predisposed analyst, since "tiny imperfections" could always be found or imagined!
Timo Saloniemi
^ Two good posts there. The long and short of it is that when Senator Vreenak speaks, his word is final.
"It's a FAAAAAAAKE!"
"But..."
"FAAAAAAAKE"
"Ca-"
"FAAAAAAAKE"
There's really no comeback to that amount of fakery.
"It's a FAAAAAAAKE!"
"But..."
"FAAAAAAAKE"
"Ca-"
"FAAAAAAAKE"
There's really no comeback to that amount of fakery.
Last edited:
I haven't seen the episode for a while, but doesn't it cut immediately after the line is spoken?
We have no idea what the ensuing conversation was like, surely.
We have no idea what the ensuing conversation was like, surely.
^It does indeed. We only hear Sisko's side of it in his log entry.
Of course, Garak, being one step ahead of Sisko the whole time, always knew Vreenak would discover the fake but he also knew that any imperfections in the forgery would be put down to the damage to the rod in the explosion.
Of course, Garak, being one step ahead of Sisko the whole time, always knew Vreenak would discover the fake but he also knew that any imperfections in the forgery would be put down to the damage to the rod in the explosion.
I know it's only a joke, and one that has taken on a life of its own, like the AotF joke or the Eav'oq joke.
But it always gets on my nerves when people pretend that the "It's a fake" line was this massive, outraged explosion that could be heard echoing all around the station. It was a furious hiss, quiet and intense, not a room-shaking bellow.
Someone here should post a pic of Vreenak hissing, "It's a faaaakkkee!" and Sisko yelling, "It's REEEAALLLL!"
It was done as an avatar some time ago.
I disagree with the OP saying Sisko should have disputed Vreenak about it being fake.
If Sisko disputed Vreenak about it being fake, then it's a 100% guarantee that Sisko is a lying fraudster.
However, with Sisko not disputing it, it leaves the shadow of doubt that maybe Sisko was misled to believe it was real and therefore did not lie on purpose. It leaves the impression that perhaps Sisko was lied to by others, but Sisko himself wasn't the liar. This gives Sisko plausible deniability in order to cover his own butt somewhat in the eyes of the Romulans (even though they may still have thought he did it).
Having said that, they should definitely do this, it would be frickin' amazing:
If Sisko disputed Vreenak about it being fake, then it's a 100% guarantee that Sisko is a lying fraudster.
However, with Sisko not disputing it, it leaves the shadow of doubt that maybe Sisko was misled to believe it was real and therefore did not lie on purpose. It leaves the impression that perhaps Sisko was lied to by others, but Sisko himself wasn't the liar. This gives Sisko plausible deniability in order to cover his own butt somewhat in the eyes of the Romulans (even though they may still have thought he did it).
Having said that, they should definitely do this, it would be frickin' amazing:
It was done as an avatar some time ago.
Someone actually did a video on Youtube but it's not there anymore!
I always thought this part of an otherwise brilliant episodes was overlooked massively. Vreenak could easily have been testing the waters with Sisko, and as soon as Sisko heard it, the look on his face was "Oh snap" which gave him away as soon as he walked through the door.
Instead of, "Oh shit, I'm found out," it might have been, "If you believe that's a fake, you're a fool, Senator." In other words, try to salvage some room for doubt. Given that Vrenak tested Sisko's mettle from the beginning, sparring with him over the replicated Romulan beverage, Sisko himself was an important arbiter or indicator of the worth of the material he would present. Vrenak isn't a technician, but a politician. A people reader. Sisko, not being a master spy, played the role as one who expected the rod to fail inspection. Vrenak walks in, says its a fake, and Sisko acknowledges that the jig is up.
The best that Sisko could hope for would be to have the rod taken back to Romulus to be further examined, and the material debated in the Senate. It would have given those against the Treaty leverage. Vrenak, being pro-treaty, would have been an important start. In any case, it proves the brilliance of the Garak's fallback plan.
The best that Sisko could hope for would be to have the rod taken back to Romulus to be further examined, and the material debated in the Senate. It would have given those against the Treaty leverage. Vrenak, being pro-treaty, would have been an important start. In any case, it proves the brilliance of the Garak's fallback plan.
I think one has to take into account the gravitas with which Vreenak 'said' it was a fake. It wouldn't have become one of the most beloved & legendary lines in TV history without that gravitas.
That gravitas IMO is to make it absolutely clear that Vreenak knew it was fake beyond any doubt, and there was no way to lie to convince him otherwise.
That gravitas IMO is to make it absolutely clear that Vreenak knew it was fake beyond any doubt, and there was no way to lie to convince him otherwise.
Yeah, the jig was up. No reason for Sisko to pretend otherwise at that point and risk insulting the intelligence of a senator further.
Of course the real reason he didn't put up a fight is that continuing the scene beyond what is there would have been narrative dead weight and nowhere near as memorable as what we got.
Of course the real reason he didn't put up a fight is that continuing the scene beyond what is there would have been narrative dead weight and nowhere near as memorable as what we got.
Similar threads
