Why it is important some people are unhappy
- Thread starter AudioBridge
- Start date
DING! DING! DING! WE HAVE A WINNAH!!!!!!
Thus, Star Trek becomes and anthology show, where the episodes have absolutely no relation to one another, the rules set down in one segment don't apply to the next, and the characters and settings just happen to look alike from one show to the next; purely coincidental.
OMG! Kinda like what's happened for the last 42 years?!?!?! No way!
Yet again, another 'defense' of the new movie that's pretty much insulting the franchise thus far... Really, it does bring home the "Star Trek for people who hate Star Trek" meme pretty solidly, doesn't it?
Tell you guys what. Since you lot apparently hate all Star Trek prior to Abram's involvement, please mail me all your Star Trek related shit. I hate to see it wasted, but I also hate to think that it's causing you such grief to exist. I'm sure I can find 'classic' Trek material good homes.
Eh, not really.
Yet again, another 'defense' of the new movie that's pretty much insulting the franchise thus far... Really, it does bring home the "Star Trek for people who hate Star Trek" meme pretty solidly, doesn't it?
If you're looking for things to reinforce your initial failed premise it might be twisted to read that way.
Yet again, another 'defense' of the new movie that's pretty much insulting the franchise thus far... Really, it does bring home the "Star Trek for people who hate Star Trek" meme pretty solidly, doesn't it?
Tell you guys what. Since you lot apparently hate all Star Trek prior to Abram's involvement, please mail me all your Star Trek related shit. I hate to see it wasted, but I also hate to think that it's causing you such grief to exist. I'm sure I can find 'classic' Trek material good homes.
You have no basis for your argument. I never once said I hate Star Trek, infact I have posted in several threads how I like all of Trek, as opposed to those who actually do hate or strongly dislike certain movies or series or episode. I love every single one even with their problems.
I simply recognize the fact that this franchise has constantly stepped on it's own feet when it comes to continuity AND pretty much hitting the reset button after each episode and returning to status qou, much like the fashion CRA brought up.
I have still failed to live up to your expectations as a hater of Star Trek, I do apologize.
Well, then please explain why every single defense of this movie always seems to be put into terms of "well, look at how much Trek has always sucked"?
So, tell me, let me pin it down, what do you really like about Trek? Because for the life of me, I haven't seen a single element of Trek's 40 year history that some of you haven't poured feces all over in order to defend Abram's work.
What I really see aren't Star Trek fans, they're 'next thing' fans. And, mark my words, some of the same people who are quasi-religious about defending this movie in the most vitroloic way possible, will be dumping on it the moment a sequel, new series, or what have you, is announced.
I am a true scotsman.
No one has said it always sucked. I mean why would people come to a fan board and discuss Trek if it sucked. HOW could it have survived for 42 years and have been bad? What is being said is that some people think Star Trek is flawless. Which is also far from the truth. The first series hardly had internal consistency, that came later as the fans clamored for more and more from Gene and the rest after the show was taken off the air. That happened when FSA started printing material for role-playing. The internal consistency of the show did not exist when it made its initial run. The writers thought more about writing a good story and most times steamrolled over "Canon" The only things we came away with were bits and pieces of our favorite characters who in the end didn't actually deal with any of the consequences of what they did each week. I mean the first time we see any repercussions of someones actions in Star Trek is in TWOK.
Nobody is Shitting on TOS, but most intelligent fans who don't latch on to every little thing about it as gospel realize that fiction is malliable and legends (Which is what star trek has become a Modern Legend tale with your legendary hero (Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, and evne Archer) always go through Transformations as each new generation takes and tells them. The original version of Red Riding Hood is something I pointed to in a past thread. In the original, A MORALITY Tale, Red DIES, She gets eaten by the wolf as a warning for young pretty girls not to trust sweet talking men. In future tellings by new writers she lives, in fact her, a woodsman, and her grandmother outsmart wolves more than once. This is what Abrams is doing for Trek, he's retelling the LEGEND of Trek for a new generation. It's not the next BIG THING. It's how liturature and storytelling survive and expand. It how culture grows. In the slightly over 200 years America has been around it hasn't developed much culture and the culture it does have is disposable. Star Trek is one of the few things Americans have as a cultural accompishment.
But if we allow it to Stagnate, if we impead its growth by not allowing the myth to be retooled and retold it won't spread in to our future. It will slowly fade away. Others have pointed to Shakespear and have shown how even his works (Some great, others not so) have been reset and retold and yet each telling is still as powerful.
Now the real crux here is we have people who HAVE NOT EVEN SEEN THE MOVIE YET Telling us how much it already sucks. And most of the "Well Trek has always sucked" Answers you've seen come after one of those. It's a two way street and I'm sorry the people who really hate this project and won't bend an inch because they think they are the high keepers of Trek Lore came in and started first (In every instance I've seen) and go on ad nauseum with their vitriol and prattle about unimportant things they have a big OCD boner over.
Now I personally am of the camp of "GO SEE IT FIRST, THEN BITCH ALL YOU WANT IF YOU HATE IT." I can handle that. I've handled that with people over in the TF Fandom who don't like the Live action version of the franchise, you know why? They actually went and checked it out and most of them attack what they hated about the movie, (Some still Bay Bash, but hey they do peg his storytelling style down pretty good so I just chuckle he is mister 'splodsion. )
Until the movie comes out and I see it's flaws for myself I'm going to defend it as something that deserves a chance, and I will pick away at what was rediculous in Trek when the hatemongers decide to keep being rediculously stubbon pseudo-intellectuals. If the Movie Sucks, I will be one of the first ones to say "Yeah you were right," Then one of them goes "I told you so." But right now I don't have that information. DO you, know Vance you just do unending attacks on a man because he likes Star Wars a little bit more than he likes Star Trek.
The bottom-line is Trek needs the pot stirred or it's done, good or bad Abrams is stirring the pot, we may get a tasty soup or he may just have been washing his socks. We will find out in May...
I agree with you.
I like your post except this part
Even if the movie is bad, which is quite possible of course, it still will not mean that all the irrational hatred, that was based on very little info months before the movie even premiered and people actually saw it, was justified and correct.
Again, the logic of 'you have to see the movie to decide if you're going to see the movie' falls kinda flat, donnit? My comments are squarely based on what we've seen that I don't like. A brief summation...
Manboi Kirk
Giant Space Drill
Dumbass "Drive a three-hundred year old car off a Cliff" teaser
Uhura Gratuitously Topless
Bad sex scene with Kirk's 4" penis
Ugly 'hero' vessel
Yet another time travel plot
Manually spot-welding a ship on the ground
Nonsensical Revlon/iPod Store Explosion bridge
To be completely honest, from what I've seen of the movie, there's honestly nothing about it that really appeals to me. There is, at this point, no level of interest I have in this film, since it's utterly failed to sell to me. To me, it's every stupid thing on the Sci-Fi channel given a half-billion dollar budget then thrown up on the screen.
Could I be wrong? Sure, but I can always see it AFTER the movie's on disc, right?
Now, does this make me an evil and terrible person? Apparently it does, as a couple of people here are actually trying to get me (and others) banned for voicing my concerns.
But, you'll notice, at no point have I said "must adhere to canon" or "we want the 1960s back", ever. What I am saying, honestly, is that, in my opinion, what we've seen of the movie has made me retch.
But you assume that anyone who so much as voices a minor concern over any element is 'irrational hatred' and attack accordingly. Honestly, you already owe a lot of people an apology, regardless of how the movie really does turn out.
No...you assume wrongly that I assume what you say.
There are people who voice intelligent, logical negative opinions or concerns about Trek XI and I read their posts with interest.
And there are those who post irrational bull over and over and over again and obsess about minor unimportant details , trolling every single thread. Like a certain Captain or a certain Master for example.
It was to those I was referring with my post you quoted.
I owe nobody an apology.
And if you think I like 100% of what I've seen so far and have no concern you are greatly mistaken.
I like many things, I dislike some and I fully intend to give it a chance in May before I fully make up my mind.
No.
Who would those people be, and based upon what information or evidence do you make that assertion?
Don't answer me in this thread.
Don't talk about it any more in any thread, in fact. Put it in a PM or an e-mail and send it to Bonz and to Spaceman Spiff. Copy me, if you like (or don't -- I'll leave that up to you) but if you're going to make a claim like the one you've made here, you'd better be ready to back it up with facts -- and the sooner, the better.
Vance, to address some of your "concerns"
Chris Pine, 2008 - 28. CLose enough for me. A bit pretty perhaps, but whatever.
Why do you hate Star Trek so much?
Oh, sorry, that was me copying one of your lines.
I never said I hated Trek, It opened my mind to possibilities, in terms of what we were capable of through our science, and hopefully - hopefully - what we can achieve as a society in the future if we hold on and become better people. Some of that means being prepared to change. It was great. Past tense. It's been damaged and run into the ground. It can't be more damaged, as a starting point for a new production team, than it already is.
Stop and think for a moment. You go to college, get the knowledge, start making movies and TV shows. Some years later, Paramount calls and says, "Look we want you to make stuff for us. what will it cost?" And you say, "LEt me take Trek out of storage", and they say, "Okay". What's youir next step? Think hard about it. Give us an answer.
And as Starship Polaris said upthread, untuil we are in that position, we can't really say 'what should be done'. Things need to change, it's the 21st Century, you know.
You prepared to change, Vance, or stay stuck in the past? You have the DVDs, stay there with them, never see anything new. As for me, and a lot of people here, we'd rather turn our faces to the future.
If I think the film sucks, I'm on record as saying I'll come back and say so. I hope you're big enough to go and see it and come back here and say it was good if you think it is.
William Shatner, 1965 - 34
Chris Pine, 2008 - 28. CLose enough for me. A bit pretty perhaps, but whatever.
Don't see the problem. It's a plot point.
And it's not like we restore and use 300 year old machines now. It's not all that much of a stretch.
William Ware Theiss costumes. 'Nuff said.
Show me a screen grab of Kirk's dick. You're being gratuitously offensive.
I'm not overly happy with it, but I'm willing to wait.
Time travel done well is good. Don't deny it.
Yeah, like supertankers are never spot-welded on the ground.
Again, I'll wait and see. I don't understand why, from a few photos and glimpses you're so crazy about this. A bridge has to a clean, functional, uncluttered environment. Maybe a bit bright, but a well lit stage is neeede dfor good film.
Why do you hate Star Trek so much?
Oh, sorry, that was me copying one of your lines.
I never said I hated Trek, It opened my mind to possibilities, in terms of what we were capable of through our science, and hopefully - hopefully - what we can achieve as a society in the future if we hold on and become better people. Some of that means being prepared to change. It was great. Past tense. It's been damaged and run into the ground. It can't be more damaged, as a starting point for a new production team, than it already is.
Stop and think for a moment. You go to college, get the knowledge, start making movies and TV shows. Some years later, Paramount calls and says, "Look we want you to make stuff for us. what will it cost?" And you say, "LEt me take Trek out of storage", and they say, "Okay". What's youir next step? Think hard about it. Give us an answer.
And as Starship Polaris said upthread, untuil we are in that position, we can't really say 'what should be done'. Things need to change, it's the 21st Century, you know.
You prepared to change, Vance, or stay stuck in the past? You have the DVDs, stay there with them, never see anything new. As for me, and a lot of people here, we'd rather turn our faces to the future.
If I think the film sucks, I'm on record as saying I'll come back and say so. I hope you're big enough to go and see it and come back here and say it was good if you think it is.
Manboi is how he LOOKS and how he carries himself. Kirk has always been a masculine model. Chris Pine is a .. well.. manboi. He's not masculine, he's metro.
It is. I just personally think it's an outrageously stupid one. But, again, I'm stating my opinions here... I can still do that, right?
Trailer picture, where he's licking all over the Orion cadet. He's not nude, but he's obviously... into the scene, shall we say?
Not manually, and not like this. Tankers, and most other 'wet navy' vessels are seam welded robotically now. Spot welding is an anachronism now, much less on a 23rd century starship.
Crazy? I just don't LIKE it. Simple as that. It's very much the 'faddy style over function' problem that I see all over the sci-fi channel.
I love Star Trek. I actively dislike this movie that pretends to be Star Trek.
Change for the sake of change gave us Hitler, Lenin, the Ayatollah, Mao, Pol Pot, Chavez, Castro, and so on. Change, alone, is never enough. It's what you're changing into that matters.
You've got it in your head that I'm wanting 1966 all over again, but considering that I wasn't even a SPERM at that point, I'm not too enthused by the idea. The problem isn't that I'm "afraid of change", or "close-minded", it's simply I do not like the changes being made. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.
I actively dislike this movie that pretends to be Star Trek.
You're assuming it does. Again, not having seen it you have decided something about it no one can know unless they do.
I'm glad to hear it brother.
