Tons of New Kelvin Info! (Including crew pics)

Just an opinion -- never stated as more. I'll probably state it again if it seems apropos. That I think he's a pretty homely guy from the description should be explanation enough, just as ST-One's statement vis a vis a 1960s Kirk expresses his opinion.

 

Well, Pine isn't as feminine looking as Shatner was at that age, but he seems to be a good enough actor to overcome that.

 

Hmm. You know, I now might understand the confusion -- I wasn't referring to Pine in my description of "ugmo" but to the morph of Kevin Bacon and Matt Damon. While I do think Pine has a slightly shrunken head, like a gymnast, I wouldn't call him an ugmo, at least not at this point. And while he only looks like Shatner in superficial ways, I will say that in the trailer he does have more of a young Kirk vibe than I would have expected.

 

hold on a second, since when did William Shatner look feminine?

 

That comment does not compute, since Starfleet belongs to the UFP.

That's like saying the USS Nimitz belongs to the Navy, not the United States of America.

 

around the time he started wearing a wig and a girdle.

 

Well it does belong to the Navy doesn't it?

Would you say that the planes on an Aircraft Carrier were Navy Planes or American Planes?

Star Fleet started before the UFP was formed, whilst it certainly serves the UFP I always think of it as it's own entity separate from the UFP.

 

You misunderstand the relationship. The UFP is a political entity, Starfleet is a military/exploratory tool. Just like todays armed forces and other state funded organisations like NASA etc.

In no way can it be considered separate.

 

Well, separate enough not to use national insignia and identifiers, not when it has its own comparable symbols available.

Similarly, it is rather seldom that one sees the words "United States" or the US flag on any USAF hardware, even though the nation is prominently present in two letters out of the four. And the USN doesn't paint Stars and Stripes on its submarine hulls, even though this would be a means of displaying the national symbol when the vessel is submerged or about to submerge, and would be far more impressive than the midget flags sometimes flying on the sails of the surfaced subs. Indeed, the USN is somewhat exotic in choosing to fly the national flag at all, rather than a dedicated naval ensign.

Starfleet is quite a close parallel to the USAF and USN in this respect, I'd think. Indeed, the "nation" of UFP is probably present in the letters "USS" already, these expanding to something like "UnitedFederationofPlanets Starfleet Starship". There's little need to carry the "national" flag in addition, and indeed no ship so far has displayed it; that many ships feature the text "United Federation of Planets" on their pennants is a nice gesture, but doesn't need to be carried over to all the spacecraft serving in that organization.

As for the circular UFP logo, it should be noted that this is not seen on the side of the dockyard building in the trailer. Instead, the Starfleet Command logo, with the prominent delta symbol rather than the starmap as the main motif in the center circle, is seen there.

Timo Saloniemi

 

I do understand but as Star Fleet pre-dates the UFP it used to be quite separate, so it can in some be considered to be separate from an historical point of view.

At least in my mind it is.

 

I mainly brought up this up to point out that the "heritage" striping/detailing seems to be missing from this movie, and therefore creating a barren aesthetic (in my lonely little opinion).

Unless in this movie does have the corrupted/altered timeline where Starfleet does exist, but not the UFP (at least yet).

 

The UFP was supposed to have been created at the end of ENT (gonna love the reaction to that).

I still dont buy that the striping has anything to do with the UFP, its the Starfleet pendant, and I agree without it there is something missing to the secondary hulls of both the Enterprise and Kelvin (same as the NCC-1701's on the Enterprise saucer underside).

To me these things being missing look far more wrong than the Enterprise looking different or the Kelvin having just one nacelle.

 

I agree, the hull looks much nicer with the striping.

 

Well..............there was a comment by Abrams (or the writers) that "there is one canon violation that will have some fans screaming" - or something close to that effect.

 

Could be anything, could be the "Enterprise built on earth" one...who knows but the UFP has already been referenced on some signs so dunno if that could be it, I recon its that the Enterprise delta emblem is the Starfleet symbol, people will go mad with that.

 

...Except us purists who have always known that the delta was a Starfleet rather than Enterprise symbol, because people from outside Kirk's ship wore it in TOS episodes.

I doubt Abrams counts Roddenberry's assorted utterances or random chapters of The Making of Star Trek as "canon" that the fans would "scream" about, really.

Timo Saloniemi

 

And the delta shield emblem was also on UESPA's 2067 Friendship One warp probe launched just four years after Cochrane broke the warp barrier and First Contact.

It might be hard to make out on some photos and schematics of the probe, but in the episode of the same name(VOYAGER)a blue delta shield tilted on its side with a UN-style Earth map inside was emblazoned on the sides of the probe.

 

Seen here:

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/7x21/friendshipone_004.jpg

 

You know, I'd point out here that the nacelle portion bears a striking resemblance to a navy jet fighter of the late 1950's/early 60's, eg. second generation jet fighter craft.

I've been talking about visual metaphors here and there in other threads. This strikes me as a way to "date" this portion of the film...eg. if one sees TOS as a product of the mid-60's, and this portion of the film occurs prior to TOS (eg. earlier in the 23rd century), then you wind up with a ship that pays homage to the late 50's/early 60's.

Eg. by way of analogy the Kelvin aesthetic and technology is to the TOS Enterprise as a 1950's/early 60's fighter jet engine is to that of a slightly later era IRL.