Andrew Probert and Rick Sternbach: The New Enterprise

[Santaman]

I'm just saying, poorly admittedly, that refitting the new Enterprise to the original would hardly be less believable than the original to the TMP Enterprise, at least in terms of plausibility. If you can accept that the TMP Enterprise is the same ship as the original, then I don't see why you can't make the leap from the New Enterprise to the original. It wouldn't be any more serious of a reconstruction at all.

I think thats the point where I have to disagree with you, the TMP refit shares a lot of lines with the original design while the Rebootprise shares absolutely none, I think thats the big issue here, well at least thats the way I see it, i guess this will go into the infamous "I have to agree to disagree with you." basket.

 

[ST-One]

I'm just saying, poorly admittedly, that refitting the new Enterprise to the original would hardly be less believable than the original to the TMP Enterprise, at least in terms of plausibility. If you can accept that the TMP Enterprise is the same ship as the original, then I don't see why you can't make the leap from the New Enterprise to the original. It wouldn't be any more serious of a reconstruction at all.

I think thats the point where I have to disagree with you, the TMP refit shares a lot of lines with the original design while the Rebootprise shares absolutely none, I think thats the big issue here, well at least thats the way I see it, i guess this will go into the infamous "I have to agree to disagree with you." basket.

Which lines would that be?
The bigger, more rounded secondary hull?
The interconnecting dorsal?
The bridge module?
The lower sensor-dome?
The shape of the saucer-rim? Hell, the whole saucer?
The pylons, maybe?
Or the shuttle-bay area?
The deflector?
Perhaps the impulse-engines?

 

[dougkeenan]

Or the shuttle-bay area?

Have we seen the shuttle-bay area yet? I'm looking forward to that!

 

[ST-One]

Or the shuttle-bay area?

Have we seen the shuttle-bay area yet? I'm looking forward to that!

This is about the (exterior) differences between the TOS and the Refit-Enterprise

 

[Manticore]

I'm just saying, poorly admittedly, that refitting the new Enterprise to the original would hardly be less believable than the original to the TMP Enterprise, at least in terms of plausibility. If you can accept that the TMP Enterprise is the same ship as the original, then I don't see why you can't make the leap from the New Enterprise to the original. It wouldn't be any more serious of a reconstruction at all.

I think thats the point where I have to disagree with you, the TMP refit shares a lot of lines with the original design while the Rebootprise shares absolutely none, I think thats the big issue here, well at least thats the way I see it, i guess this will go into the infamous "I have to agree to disagree with you." basket.

Which lines would that be?
The bigger, more rounded secondary hull?
The interconnecting dorsal?
The bridge module?
The lower sensor-dome?
The shape of the saucer-rim? Hell, the whole saucer?
The pylons, maybe?
Or the shuttle-bay area?
The deflector?
Perhaps the impulse-engines?

Thank you for helping me with my point. The refit Enterprise and the original Enterprise are similar only in rough shape and proportion. More similar in that regard than the new Enterprise and the original? Perhaps, but once you get to a certain point of divergence, the difference basically becomes academic.

 

[dougkeenan]

Or the shuttle-bay area?

Have we seen the shuttle-bay area yet? I'm looking forward to that!

This is about the (exterior) differences between the TOS and the Refit-Enterprise

Yes it is. Do we have a clear picture of the clamshell yet? I'm looking forward to that!

 

[Santaman]

I'm just saying, poorly admittedly, that refitting the new Enterprise to the original would hardly be less believable than the original to the TMP Enterprise, at least in terms of plausibility. If you can accept that the TMP Enterprise is the same ship as the original, then I don't see why you can't make the leap from the New Enterprise to the original. It wouldn't be any more serious of a reconstruction at all.

I think thats the point where I have to disagree with you, the TMP refit shares a lot of lines with the original design while the Rebootprise shares absolutely none, I think thats the big issue here, well at least thats the way I see it, i guess this will go into the infamous "I have to agree to disagree with you." basket.

Which lines would that be?
The bigger, more rounded secondary hull?
The interconnecting dorsal?
The bridge module?
The lower sensor-dome?
The shape of the saucer-rim? Hell, the whole saucer?
The pylons, maybe?
Or the shuttle-bay area?
The deflector?
Perhaps the impulse-engines?

In short, when I see the original or the refit then its instantly: "Ah Enterprise."

When I see the Rebootprise then its instantly: "Not the Enterprise.

Thats all I can say about it.

 

[starburst]

When I see the Rebootprise then its instantly: "Not the Enterprise.

Thats all I can say about it.

The thing is, and this is based on what I have read about it as I was born years after, that is the same reaction many felt when they saw the TMP ship, to them that was not and could not be the Enterprise.

I wonder how many now are among those who are saying the TOS & TMP designs are the same ship and the new one looks nothing like it.

I guess it depends on if you want it to, many I get the feeling just dont want to accept the new ship, others who are open minded like me can see it as the Enterprise. This looks more like my Enterprise than the others, even though I was a child of the TNG era the TOS show was the one I (remember) watching first and became interested in.

Just a few thoughts, not trying to step anyones toes your opinion is your opinion as is everyone elses

 

[SonicRanger]

The thing is, and this is based on what I have read about it as I was born years after, that is the same reaction many felt when they saw the TMP ship, to them that was not and could not be the Enterprise.

Absolutely. Upon seeing photos of the refit, fans were screaming that it was blasphemous to have rectangular "Klingon" nacelles on the Enterprise.

I guess it depends on if you want it to, many I get the feeling just dont want to accept the new ship, others who are open minded like me can see it as the Enterprise.

Exactly right.

 

[Santaman]

I never claimed it was a logical process, I'm a technician not a Vulcan..

 

[ancient]

Why anyone insists on not noticing the difference is completely beyond me.

I notice the difference. I just accept it. Would I have prefered something closer to the original? Yes. Do I prefer the original? By far. But I understand why they did what they did, and this new ship has the potential to be pretty cool in its own right.

I think that what bothers me is that there are 'fans' who are dismissive of other fans having an emotional attachment to the Gray Lady, as they are dismissive of anyone who just thinks that - barring any other issues - that the new ship is just plain ugly.

I don't like to play the whole 'your opinions about my opinions offend me' game, personally.

Even saying "I don't like the new ship, though I know why they felt they needed to update it" is enough to declare an emotional jihad. (See the XI forum for a plethora of examples.)

I don't think so. Hell, I've said that, and I'm still a bit on the fence - some days I like it, some days it still looks like crap. I've never been attacked for that, and I don't think anyone else has been either.

Personally, I really don't like the ship, but I'm more than sick of the so-called 'fans' who are saying, with a straight face, that I'm an awful, terrible person who should simple DIE in his old age because I can't wholly embrace the 'new' flavor of Kool-Aid today.

Say what? It's this kind of hysterical drama that provokes scorn.

The thing is, and this is based on what I have read about it as I was born years after, that is the same reaction many felt when they saw the TMP ship, to them that was not and could not be the Enterprise.

Absolutely. Upon seeing photos of the refit, fans were screaming that it was blasphemous to have rectangular "Klingon" nacelles on the Enterprise.

True, it's better to wait until the movie actually comes out to judge fan reaction.

 

[starburst]

True, it's better to wait until the movie actually comes out to judge fan reaction.

I think thats the thing, we have so far seen one photo where it looks really wierd, and then a couple of quick clips in the trailer where it looks alot better (to me anyway)...untill we see alot more I think people are jumping on the its gorgeous or hideous band wagons too quick, so I couldnt agree with you more and even then its down to personal perspective.

 

[ST-One]

I think thats the point where I have to disagree with you, the TMP refit shares a lot of lines with the original design while the Rebootprise shares absolutely none, I think thats the big issue here, well at least thats the way I see it, i guess this will go into the infamous "I have to agree to disagree with you." basket.

Which lines would that be?
The bigger, more rounded secondary hull?
The interconnecting dorsal?
The bridge module?
The lower sensor-dome?
The shape of the saucer-rim? Hell, the whole saucer?
The pylons, maybe?
Or the shuttle-bay area?
The deflector?
Perhaps the impulse-engines?

In short, when I see the original or the refit then its instantly: "Ah Enterprise."

When I see the Rebootprise then its instantly: "Not the Enterprise.

Thats all I can say about it.

Which is a (somewhat) understandable position.
But then you shouldn't have said that they share a lot of lines, when in actuality they don't.

 

[Captain Robert April]

The contours of the original's primary and secondary hulls are extremely similar to their TMP counterparts; it's the neck that tends to throw most folks' estimates off, but just figure on a new neck and everything matches up quite well.

The Ulgyprise, on the other hand, isn't even close.

 

[ST-One]

The contours of the original's primary and secondary hulls are extremely similar to their TMP counterparts; it's the neck that tends to throw most folks' estimates off, but just figure on a new neck and everything matches up quite well.

No.

 

[Captain Robert April]

The saucers sure line up well, assuming that the diameter was increased from TOS to TMP, which is the general assumption.

And you completely ignored the bit about taking out the neck and lining up the lower hulls themselves, just like you are ignoring how JJ's version doesn't match up in any way, shape, or form.

 

[ST-One]

The saucers sure line up well, assuming that the diameter was increased from TOS to TMP, which is the general assumption.

And you completely ignored the bit about taking out the neck and lining up the lower hulls themselves, just like you are ignoring how JJ's version doesn't match up in any way, shape, or form.

It doesn't match up at all (and actually I don't care as I think the TMP-refit is the superior version anyway).
And I couldn't even care less that the new Enterprise looks even more different than the TOS-Enterprise.

 

[Captain Robert April]

For a major upgrade, that's not far off.

Of course, the case can also be made that they merely replaced the entire secondary hull, in which case how well everything lines up, or not, becomes completely irrelevant.

 

[ancient]

Since the internal arrangement of the engine hull and the saucer seem to be completely different, I think they replaced both hulls.

And the nacelles. And all three connecting pylons.

They did, however, keep the bowling alley pretty much the same. Them engineers. They love to change things.

 

[Cyrus]

I like it. Very sleek.