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The Sobering Effect of the Star Trek XI Trailer

Well, Cogs, I'm with you all the way. Though my own views on this film are far harsher. However, I'll refrain from jumping into that right now.

I do want to address one idea you brought up: the original TOS actors were like friends to us. How true. And like you said, these aren't our friends.

The truth is, what bothers me most about this whole thing is that, even if the film does very well, Star Trek will only be back in a temporary fashion. By this I mean that this cast will not have the staying power of Shatner and Co. They're not going to inhabit these roles for another 40 years. They're going to maybe make the inevitable trilogy and then move on to other roles, should this film be a success.

And if it isn't, there won't be any sequels, so these actors will split up and move on to other work.

This is why I think a re-casting is a fundamentally flawed idea. You can't really do it with the TOS cast. A lot of people have brought up the Bond franchise, the Batman franchise, and other franchises that have seen re-casting work. But NONE of those ever once saw an actor or set of actors stay in place for four decades. That's a tremendous legacy that can never be equalled or surpassed.

I'm sure an apologist will pop in and say, "so what?" (probably Dennis Bailey) But that doesn't change the fact that Trek is now no longer a family legacy experience. It's now truly a series franchise to be whored out. And while Paramount did this by rushing the post-TNG series into being, those series still managed to last longer than three movies and four to six years and contained new characters and a shared continuity.

My point: I just don't see a reason to get invested in this new Trek. I'd be getting invested in maybe three films, and then what...more re-casting? And Trek truly becomes just any other series of films like Bond or Batman?

I think not. Star Trek TOS exists on my DVD shelf and contains three seasons and six feature films.

And I'm just fine with leaving it at that.

Sometimes, not having to have more of a good thing is itself a very good thing.

\S/

In another thread someone talked about modern audiences preferring to have their movies spoon-fed to them. And he was wrong about that.
Modern, flexible audiences can adapt and enjoy new versions of old stories or franchises.
Your display of intellectual inflexibility shows that you can't.
You and all those like you are actually the ones who want to be spoon-fed with the ever-same tasting, ever-same looking product.

First off all, don't you dare pretend you know one damn thing about my intellectual flexibility. I'm fairly certain it's light-years ahead of your own, proof of which is the fact that I can actually understand someone else's point.

My point is not that I want the same "ever-tasting, ever-same looking product" (bad English, BTW). It's quite the opposite, which you obviously didn't have the sense to realize.

I don't want, as Cary so well said, ANY more TOS. It was done and done damn near perfectly, and I'm happy to leave it at that.

What I would've preferred, as many Trekkers here have said over the last few years, are new stories set in the TOS timeframe. The TNG era had its run, and it was pretty good, though not everyone agrees on which series was the best.

But there's still a verdant pasture of Trek potential waiting to be sown and reaped, namely, the TOS era. Set a new movie there, or a new series, with new and different characters in familiar settings. But tell the stories differently, as Abrams clearly has a knack for.

But don't "re-invent" something that doesn't need it. TOS is one such thing. I could see Bond needing re-invention, even The Batman or other superheroes, but not TOS.

If Abrams was making a new Star Trek film set during the TOS era with new characters and situations, I'd be all for it, assuming it was well written, acted, and made, AND that it respected the continuity that's come before.

However, he's tossing continuity out the window and "re-inventing" iconic characters.

They don't really need further stories, outside of the novels.

However, the universe is a big place, and so a TOS film or series would've been great and could've truly introduced a whole new fan base to Trek, while at the same time keeping the old ones.

As it is, Abrams will have alienated the original fan base in the hopes of securing a new one. It's a risky gamble, and I have the feeling he's going to lose.

\S/
 
Oh, and by the way, I'm entitled to believe all of this. Your almost fascist like assertions that I have to want to let this new Trek XI buttfuck me with it's awesomeness doesn't change that fact.

\S/
 
As it is, Abrams will have alienated the original fan base in the hopes of securing a new one. It's a risky gamble, and I have the feeling he's going to lose.

\S/
Why do people keep saying this?

This is the correct version


As it is, Abrams will have alienated SOME of original fan base in the hopes of securing a new one. It's a risky gamble, and I have the feeling he's going to lose.

Just as we who like the look of this don't represent your viewpoint, you don't represent ours.
 
The more I think about the trailer and the new film, the more excited I get. I too feel TOS is the essence of Trek, the values, the characters, the wonder and the fun. That is something that cannot be taken away and is still being discovered by fans around the world. The new film is a way to take these wonderful characters and ideas and make them new again for millions of new fans who may then go back and view the older Trek productions. I think this will happen if the film is good OR bad.
The new film may very well be the New Coke of Trek. Loved by some, reviled by many. But everyone still drank and remembered Coke. I really think that Trek on the whole is as powerful an "pop" culture icon as Coke and ultimately will only be helped by the attention this film is bringing. Reboots can be wonderful things. Batman Begins effectively erased the craptacular Batman films of the past, that now are just a footnote in the character's history. While I don't think the new film will have the power of the Dark Knight, it may very well treat the Trek franchise as a serious subject for the mass media's attention and lead to more projects. Thus I cannot wait for this film and the future it may bring.

...let's see what's out there!
 
Superman said:
The truth is, what bothers me most about this whole thing is that, even if the film does very well, Star Trek will only be back in a temporary fashion. By this I mean that this cast will not have the staying power of Shatner and Co. They're not going to inhabit these roles for another 40 years. They're going to maybe make the inevitable trilogy and then move on to other roles, should this film be a success.

The Trek actors played many other roles in the 40 years you are referencing. Or did you miss TJ Hooker? Invasion of the Body Snatchers? They are not equivalent to the characters. It is very unwise to confuse the art with the artists. Captain Kirk is an idealized character, symbolic of courage and leadership. Shatner, from what I understand, is a horrible ass. I'm pretty good with the idea of uncoupling Kirk from him.

And if it isn't, there won't be any sequels, so these actors will split up and move on to other work.

Even with sequels, I'm pretty sure they'll do other roles.

This is why I think a re-casting is a fundamentally flawed idea. You can't really do it with the TOS cast. A lot of people have brought up the Bond franchise, the Batman franchise, and other franchises that have seen re-casting work. But NONE of those ever once saw an actor or set of actors stay in place for four decades. That's a tremendous legacy that can never be equalled or surpassed.

I'm sorry, I really don't get this. Round about TVH all the actors ceased taking their roles seriously and started playing parodies of the characters. To talk about how their "legacy" should be honored is serious hyperbole. They are just people getting paid to do a job - that's why they did cons all these years. The characters are much, much more than the actors.

My point: I just don't see a reason to get invested in this new Trek. I'd be getting invested in maybe three films, and then what...more re-casting? And Trek truly becomes just any other series of films like Bond or Batman?

It's so much more about the writing than anything else. That's why these characters could live in the animated series, in books, in comics. Recast it a dozen times - if the stories are good. I'd rather see Kirk and Spock be Arthur and Lancelot, recast and living in stories for a hundred years, than die because they have to be forever identified with the actors who were first cast in the roles.

The new film may very well be the New Coke of Trek. Loved by some, reviled by many. But everyone still drank and remembered Coke. I really think that Trek on the whole is as powerful an "pop" culture icon as Coke and ultimately will only be helped by the attention this film is bringing.

No offense, but I find the equating of stories with a commodity rather distasteful. I want more from my stories than a blast of caffeine and sugar. I'm not so sure this story is going to deliver more than that.

Reboots can be wonderful things. Batman Begins effectively erased the craptacular Batman films of the past, that now are just a footnote in the character's history.

That is untrue. As with all continuing series, the good stories are remembered and the bad ones fall by the wayside. Most of the world long ago forgot about Batman & Robin, but many, many people still love Burton's Batman, and probably always will because it is an entertaining, stylish movie. Now they can enjoy both that movie and Batman Begins. If this movie sucks, it will be forgotten, just like awful TOS episodes like "That Which Survives". Any series is going to have high points and low points - people still read Le Morte d'Arthur because it's good. Not too many people pick up Chretien de Troyes' "Cliges" 'cause it's a snore and so its story never really stuck in the Arthurian canon. This is just the way stories accumulate.
 
But don't "re-invent" something that doesn't need it. TOS is one such thing. I could see Bond needing re-invention, even The Batman or other superheroes, but not TOS.

Why wouldn't TOS need it but Bond would?

If Abrams was making a new Star Trek film set during the TOS era with new characters and situations, I'd be all for it, assuming it was well written, acted, and made, AND that it respected the continuity that's come before.

And why couldn't Casino Royale just have followed the adventures of 002 instead of Bond.

However, he's tossing continuity out the window and "re-inventing" iconic characters.

They don't really need further stories, outside of the novels.

This doesn't make any sense at all.
Why could TOS stories only be told in novels now but not in movies?

As it is, Abrams will have alienated the original fan base in the hopes of securing a new one. It's a risky gamble, and I have the feeling he's going to lose.

I'm a Trek fan since I first saw 'Who mourns for Adonais?' over 21 years ago, and this new Trek isn't alienating me as a fan now.
 
First off all, don't you dare pretend you know one damn thing about my intellectual flexibility.

Since you bring it up as a topic of conversation...I've read enough of your posts here (and other things) to have a clear understanding of its limits.

The majority of the "original fan base" is behaving pretty positively about this movie so far, so it's unlikely that Abrams has anything to worry about on that score.

Generally speaking, posted responses from fans range from seventy to eighty percent positive (some wildly so, some with reservations) about ten percent skeptical and ten or twenty percent negative - depending on the board, topic or poll. That does not indicate a big problem.

However, he's tossing continuity out the window and "re-inventing" iconic characters.

They don't really need further stories, outside of the novels.

This doesn't make any sense at all.
Why could TOS stories only be told in novels now but not in movies?

No, it doesn't make any sense. It's a rationalization to defend a bias.
 
Spock called it a decaying orbit. I'm not going to lecture to you since you likely know a lot about astronomy and orbital mechanics already. Suffice it to say, if the shuttle couldn't go high enough to get out of the atmosphere, or if the density of the Mutara Nebula was high enough to also be a drag, then you would need some sort of additional thrust to keep the shuttle in orbit.

All low orbit satellites burn some day. The Galileo could only attain an unfortunately low orbit.

They never achieved any kind of "orbit." To be an orbit the trajectory has to get you around the planet at least once, and we know that they didn't have the flight time for that. Spock would simply not use the word orbit in this context.

If you're using real science terms in SF, you have an obligation to know what they mean, and orbit does not mean "outside the atmosphere." Actually, you've got an obligation to know what your fake science terms mean too.

But this is exactly where I had meant to go with this anyway. We forgive TOS for this sort of thing, and I don't think later shows get cut the same slack.
 
We forgive TOS for this sort of thing, and I don't think later shows get cut the same slack.

I think it was because TOS wasn't defined by the science it presented unlike the later series.
 
Just saw the trailer for Wolverine (part of one of those surveys at the mall; got two dollars for my time :D ).

JJ's alleged Star Trek movie is in really deep trouble, because I don't see the ol' Canucklehead giving up the Number One slot at the box office without a major fight, and I don't think this turkey is up for it.

In other words, Wolverine looks damn good.
 
Just saw the trailer for Wolverine (part of one of those surveys at the mall; got two dollars for my time :D ).

JJ's alleged Star Trek movie is in really deep trouble, because I don't see the ol' Canucklehead giving up the Number One slot at the box office without a major fight, and I don't think this turkey is up for it.

In other words, Wolverine looks damn good.

I think Star Trek being sandwiched between Wolverine, Angels and Demons and Terminator: Salvation doesn't bode well. And god help us if it gets beaten in it's opening weekend by something like My Life in Ruins.
 
"MY Star Trek" is dead. But I can still go back and watch my old family 8mm movies. This new "Star Trek" isn't the same... and it's not even really related. It's just an imposter. And I doubt, very much, that it's going to spawn the amount of "family dedication" that the old one did... it's just the equivalent of an "Elvis Impersonator" for Star Trek.

Ironic that the guy doing his best to keep Star Trek alive in the closest thing to its original form, James Cawley, is an honest-to-Kahless Elvis impersonator (it's how he can afford his rather expensive hobby).
 
You know, Sam, I think you and I had the similar feeling after watching the trailer. I grew up in the 90s and call TNG, DS9, and the first few seasons of Voyager the golden era of Star Trek. Now I went back to watch Star Trek and enjoyed it very much but there was something I really love about the new trek I watched growing up. Watching this trailer and seeing Kirk and Spock go at it, or all the action, or the sex scenes, I started to actually miss the Trek I grew up with. I'm excited for the movie and I'm excited to see new Star Trek, but I have to wonder if I should really going in not expecting a Star Trek movie, but a movie to pass the Trek torch to a new generation, kind of like what TNG did. Perhaps if I go in with that mindset, I will have a much better viewing experiance. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong and the movie will absolutely knock my socks off (like Dark Knight this year) but I don't think my "Star Trek" is coming back. At least with the DVDs, I can still enjoy my Star Trek and let others have thier fun. In a way, it's the Best of Both Worlds for everybody.
 
In another thread someone talked about modern audiences preferring to have their movies spoon-fed to them. And he was wrong about that.
Modern, flexible audiences can adapt and enjoy new versions of old stories or franchises.
Your display of intellectual inflexibility shows that you can't.
You and all those like you are actually the ones who want to be spoon-fed with the ever-same tasting, ever-same looking product.

That same-tasting shit is what so many folks on this board lapped up avidly from the late 80s up until early this century, ModernTrek (or as I prefer to call the nonDS9 part of that, CRAP!) and THOSE people whoe lapped that up are the ones who seem to be so happy about the Abrams ...

More of the same, more more more ... why can't YOU folks be happy with a few excellent things instead of a 1000 mediocre ones? You can spread out, WATCH OTHER SHOW, DO OTHER THINGS, in addition to seeing the show you like. If 'my kind' is complaining about what they're seeing, it is because we don't want to see the same-tasting shit -- or GL/imperial tasting shit -- with a TOS tag and arrowhead logo slapped on it. There's going to be other good SF out there on occasion, and I'll be watching for it, hoping for something between real ST TOS and FIREFLY -- which actually is a pretty big range for a variety of storytelling, NOT THE SAME Berman-stamped (or likeBerman-stamped) THING.
 
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