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Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forward?

Are you ok with change?

  • I don't mind this movie rebooting Star Trek, I'm ok with change

    Votes: 88 58.3%
  • I want strict continuity following this movie, no changes to the known ST universe

    Votes: 35 23.2%
  • I don't care either way, I am just going to watch the movie for entertainment

    Votes: 28 18.5%

  • Total voters
    151
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Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

Yes, that includes ignoring any of the cast members who may apporach me at a convention I attend.
I can only tolerate so much about Abrams-Trek.
The funny part is this movie opens the day after my 31st birthday. That just rubs salt in the wound even more. I kind of wish it did come out of Christmas this year.
Well, I'm happy for you. If a movie can bug you that much, it probably means that you have no real worries in life. :techman:
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

Of course it's based on Star Trek. Every incarnation of Trek since 1969 is. Weren't you paying attention?

Most of the people involved in writing this new film are fans of the series and even some of the "good" novels. They grew up on the show.

Just like you and me. Except they're not narrow minded jerks.

He implied that this movie is one and the same as TOS.
Quit being so anally retentive. I did no such thing. That you made a faulty inference from what I STATED (oops, did I forget to write "era"? That was implied--pay attention) is your problem, not mine.

Of course, you completely side-stepped the main point I was making and focused on a tiny portion of it to misconstrue what I meant--are you running for office or something?

Let me say it again, using simple language. Don't. See. The. Movie. There, is that so difficult? YOU may not want to see what Abrams has to offer, but there are many of us who do--and you have no greater claim to "true fandom" than any of us. And, really, why do you continue to post about a movie you've already decided is shit, that you will NOT go see and whose existence offends your sensibilities? Are you a masochist? Or do you simply have a need to bloviate? (I suspect the latter) Clearly there is NO way to satisfy your personal wishes about the direction Trek should take, so why don't you just sit back and watch your re-runs ad infinitum? Save yourself the aggravation and energy.
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

If the old universe isn't being added to, then it's been shifted off to second class status. They'll add nothing to it. They'll just be glad to take money from people for new releases of old recordings...

Recordings depicting a continuity that's been abandoned and won't be added to any more.

In the meantime they may well be adding to the new. That puts the original in second class status, and you know that as well as I do.

Yes, it will not be added to anymore. That's called "ending". Is Casablanca "second class" because it has an ending and there will never be further adventures of Rick and Ilsa? Or if need something that is more of a series - is The Lord of the Rings "second class" because it has an ending and there will never be further adventures of Frodo? Is the Silver Age of DC Comics "second class" because there will never be further adventures of Superman in that particular continuity and there have been 22 years of a new continuity? Do these stories disappear? Do people lose the ability to appreciate them?

No.

Your claim that by something being ended it is somehow denigrated either needs more explanation, or is simply a gut reaction on your part.

"All good things..."? Then why are they still using the title "Star Trek"? Why would the visual aspect have to be changed to tell an interesting story? Hmmm?

Because it's a reboot, which, as I explained, means recombining material that has been created in that universe. The visual aspect may or may not have anything to do with telling an interesting story, but I would assume eventually having updated tech that allows for technological advances made since 1966 will open up some story possibilities, either in this story or in a following one.



My dear, dial back the condescension. I read what you wrote and I responded to your assumptions. Your assumption - no more stories in this continuity means losing something. My response - no it doesn't because you still have all those stories. 42 years worth. I don't understand the greediness that requires yet more in that continuity.




Did you see Voyager? Enterprise? Generations?

It has been hampering their creativity for about 15 years now, which is why Star Trek during that time has been as compelling as Harry Potter fan fiction written by 12 year olds.



It is the Star Trek universe they want to write about. And they want to do it by being able to freely recombine elements from across its 42 years worth of material. Something they cannot do if they are beholden to every line of dialogue thrown out by writers working quickly to produce a weekly tv series who weren't even trying to write things that were consistent.



I'm giving opinions, just like you are. I assume we can have a civil, intelligent discussion, though your attitude in this response is accusatory, and rather nasty.



Apparently, following this story, there won't be.



Not when the bridge design looks like a tv set from the 1960s with a tech design which makes no sense given contemporary technology. That is relegating Star Trek to a bygone era. If it is to have life and continue into the future as a science fiction series, it needs an update.



I'm not. I said Star Trek assumed its history and actual history remained the same up until 1966. "Assignment:Earth" took place in 1968. If you're going to be anal about continuity it is helpful to actually know it.




Because the same setting we had before produced 15 years of crappy stories.




I have no attachment to the visuals one way or the other. As I explained in my first post I generally reimagine them in my head anyway. Why are you so completely attached to a particular design that you can't stomach a change - especially when there's been design changes between TOS and S:TMP, between S:TMP and TWOK, between all of that and TNG, DS9 and so on and so forth?


Yes it does, BY beginning it anew. The former version is thereby called "non-existant" as far as the new stories are concerned. This is called "ignoring and denying".

How can you claim the original is still considered as valid when it's being simultaneously overwritten?

As I explained, it's being recombined. There will be plenty of familiar material, but put together in new patterns. I don't find this to be denying the original material, but using it in a more freely creative way.

Your claims are empty and invalid.

You've even contradicted yourself.

You've failed to prove your point.

Totally.

I'm sorry you feel that way. No, I didn't contradict myself. And I didn't really expect to convince you of anything - that is not my purpose in posting here. Rather I am looking to have interesting discussions with other Star Trek fans.
What part of overwritten don't you understand. Continuity does not restrict creativity. Canon may be another issue. Voyager and Enterprise had different production values and designs from TOS which is why they didn't work.
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

JJ Abrams
"For me, the costumes were a microcosm of the entire project, which was how to take something that's kind of silly and make it feel real. But how do you make legitimate those near-primary colour costumes? How do you make legitimate the pointy ears and the bowl haircut? It's ridiculous and as potentially cliched as it gets. How do you watch Galaxy Quest and then go make a Star Trek movie?"

THIS is the guy who got the job of reviving Star Trek?
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

JJ Abrams
"For me, the costumes were a microcosm of the entire project, which was how to take something that's kind of silly and make it feel real. But how do you make legitimate those near-primary colour costumes? How do you make legitimate the pointy ears and the bowl haircut? It's ridiculous and as potentially cliched as it gets. How do you watch Galaxy Quest and then go make a Star Trek movie?"

THIS is the guy who got the job of reviving Star Trek?

Yup!

Don't like it?

Too bad.

Stay out of this forum, then.
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

What part of overwritten don't you understand. Continuity does not restrict creativity. Canon may be another issue.

What do you think the difference is between continuity and canon?

And I completely understand "overwritten". As has been said by other posters, what that results in is two different versions of the same story, and there's nothing at all offensive about that. Now we'll have two different versions of the TOS era, in the way of Le Morte D'Arthur by Mallory, The Once and Future King by White, and The Mists of Avalon by Bradley - all of which are fantastic versions of the King Arthur story. White "overwrote" (or created a new version of) Mallory. Bradley created a new version from White and Mallory. Even Mallory was creating a new version from the writers of the Middle Ages. This is how stories are told, how they have always been told and how they will always be told.


Voyager and Enterprise had different production values and designs from TOS which is why they didn't work.

You think Voyager and Enterprise failed because of their designs? They failed because they were insipid and a big part of the reason they were insipid was because the writers were trapped in a tired and incoherent fictional history that allowed for no risk-taking.

I can't understand how a show that was all about breaking boundaries and voyaging into the unknown can have produced fans who are get so spitting mad about ... the unknown.
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

JJ Abrams
"For me, the costumes were a microcosm of the entire project, which was how to take something that's kind of silly and make it feel real. But how do you make legitimate those near-primary colour costumes? How do you make legitimate the pointy ears and the bowl haircut? It's ridiculous and as potentially cliched as it gets. How do you watch Galaxy Quest and then go make a Star Trek movie?"

He's completely right, of course.

Although looking at it now, I think maybe he could have backed off from such close replications of the TOS uniforms. Fond as I am of them, they come across as rather cartoonish in this heightened context.
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

You think Voyager and Enterprise failed because of their designs? They failed because they were insipid and a big part of the reason they were insipid was because the writers were trapped in a tired and incoherent fictional history that allowed for no risk-taking.

DS9 failed to about the same extent as "Voyager," and most fans seem to think that it was something other than insipid.

"Star Trek" failed because there was just too much of it, for free, for too long and because it's ultimately all very much alike.
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

Any writer who can't write within the confines of an established backstory has no business writing for a series. Doesn't matter if it's Star Trek or How I Met Your Mother.

Ya think when they're writing for Lost that they just toss their "canon" to the four winds because it's in the way? That's one of the most backstory instensive shows on the air, which is one of the big reasons why this whole thing is so frustrating: HE KNOWS BETTER!
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

What part of overwritten don't you understand. Continuity does not restrict creativity. Canon may be another issue.

What do you think the difference is between continuity and canon?

And I completely understand "overwritten". As has been said by other posters, what that results in is two different versions of the same story, and there's nothing at all offensive about that. Now we'll have two different versions of the TOS era, in the way of Le Morte D'Arthur by Mallory, The Once and Future King by White, and The Mists of Avalon by Bradley - all of which are fantastic versions of the King Arthur story. White "overwrote" (or created a new version of) Mallory. Bradley created a new version from White and Mallory. Even Mallory was creating a new version from the writers of the Middle Ages. This is how stories are told, how they have always been told and how they will always be told.


Voyager and Enterprise had different production values and designs from TOS which is why they didn't work.

You think Voyager and Enterprise failed because of their designs? They failed because they were insipid and a big part of the reason they were insipid was because the writers were trapped in a tired and incoherent fictional history that allowed for no risk-taking.

I can't understand how a show that was all about breaking boundaries and voyaging into the unknown can have produced fans who are get so spitting mad about ... the unknown.
Yea, but in the King Aurther tales they didn't change the swords into six shooters. History and design are two different things.
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

JJ Abrams
"For me, the costumes were a microcosm of the entire project, which was how to take something that's kind of silly and make it feel real. But how do you make legitimate those near-primary colour costumes? How do you make legitimate the pointy ears and the bowl haircut? It's ridiculous and as potentially cliched as it gets. How do you watch Galaxy Quest and then go make a Star Trek movie?"

THIS is the guy who got the job of reviving Star Trek?

Yes, he's a condescending jerk.
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

What part of overwritten don't you understand. Continuity does not restrict creativity. Canon may be another issue.

What do you think the difference is between continuity and canon?

And I completely understand "overwritten". As has been said by other posters, what that results in is two different versions of the same story, and there's nothing at all offensive about that. Now we'll have two different versions of the TOS era, in the way of Le Morte D'Arthur by Mallory, The Once and Future King by White, and The Mists of Avalon by Bradley - all of which are fantastic versions of the King Arthur story. White "overwrote" (or created a new version of) Mallory. Bradley created a new version from White and Mallory. Even Mallory was creating a new version from the writers of the Middle Ages. This is how stories are told, how they have always been told and how they will always be told.


Voyager and Enterprise had different production values and designs from TOS which is why they didn't work.

You think Voyager and Enterprise failed because of their designs? They failed because they were insipid and a big part of the reason they were insipid was because the writers were trapped in a tired and incoherent fictional history that allowed for no risk-taking.

I can't understand how a show that was all about breaking boundaries and voyaging into the unknown can have produced fans who are get so spitting mad about ... the unknown.
Yea, but in the King Aurther tales they didn't change the swords into six shooters. History and design are two different things.
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

Is it possible that mayb they have decided why Star Trek doesnt appeal to a mainstream audience (or any audience for it to be on TV or at the cinema for that matter) is that it is slightly outdated....hence them updating it, after all alot has changed since the 60s, 70s, 80s and even the late 90s and the early 00's.

From what I am seeing they are trying to rewrite (yes I know thats what your moaning about) the franchise and give it new life, how many times during TOS alone did they contradict themselves to GR 'canon' was ever evolving and he was changing things to perfect his ideas like any artist would (Lasers became Phasers for example).

Now you may argue that this was his right and Abrams or anyone else has no business doing this, but then alot of people dont think Lucas has a right doing anything with a universe he created.

Yea, but in the King Aurther tales they didn't change the swords into six shooters. History and design are two different things.
they did in Romeo and Juliet...bad example:rommie:
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

Is it possible that mayb they have decided why Star Trek doesnt appeal to a mainstream audience (or any audience for it to be on TV or at the cinema for that matter) is that it is slightly outdated....hence them updating it, after all alot has changed since the 60s, 70s, 80s and even the late 90s and the early 00's.

From what I am seeing they are trying to rewrite (yes I know thats what your moaning about) the franchise and give it new life, how many times during TOS alone did they contradict themselves to GR 'canon' was ever evolving and he was changing things to perfect his ideas like any artist would (Lasers became Phasers for example).

Now you may argue that this was his right and Abrams or anyone else has no business doing this, but then alot of people dont think Lucas has a right doing anything with a universe he created.

Yea, but in the King Aurther tales they didn't change the swords into six shooters. History and design are two different things.
they did in Romeo and Juliet...bad example:rommie:
TOS is more than one story or tale it is 79 stories. So negating them all is o.k. ?
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

You think Voyager and Enterprise failed because of their designs? They failed because they were insipid and a big part of the reason they were insipid was because the writers were trapped in a tired and incoherent fictional history that allowed for no risk-taking.

DS9 failed to about the same extent as "Voyager," and most fans seem to think that it was something other than insipid.

"Failed" in the context I was using it in was a critical assessment, not a commercial one. DS9 generally is critically well-regarded. Voyager and Enterprise - not so much.

"Star Trek" failed because there was just too much of it, for free, for too long and because it's ultimately all very much alike.

"All very much alike" is somewhat what I was getting at with insipid. Though I wouldn't really say Voyager and Enterprise were much like any Star Trek that came before, even as the producers seemed to be trying to replicate a formula. Sadly it was a formula they didn't understand. Previous to those two shows every Star Trek series was a major risk. It was a huge risk to put TNG out there, and it got as much, if not more, hostility as this movie is getting. DS9 was an even huger risk because it upended the Star Trek formula while using the same universe. Voyager started off with a risky premise, but retreated from it into the safest possible storytelling. Enterprise mostly just flailed about trying to be TNG, then trying to be TOS, then trying to just appeal to the lowest common denominator. There is still every chance in the world that Star Trek, which started as an off-the-wall out there SF series when no one was doing that sort of thing and which has now become the most profitable franchise of all time (yes, even more so than Bond), won't be able to take the risk that is the very core of what makes it good. We'll just have to see if they've still got those kind of balls over at Paramount.

xortex said:
Yea, but in the King Aurther tales they didn't change the swords into six shooters. History and design are two different things.

The Mists of Avalon made Morgana le Fey the heroine when she was traditionally the villain. The Once and Future King made King Arthur a frivilous, rather cowardly yougn boy when he'd traditionally been a stalwart king.

What do you think is the difference between history and design? It's impossible to have a discussion if you won't define your terms.
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

JJ Abrams
"For me, the costumes were a microcosm of the entire project, which was how to take something that's kind of silly and make it feel real. But how do you make legitimate those near-primary colour costumes? How do you make legitimate the pointy ears and the bowl haircut? It's ridiculous and as potentially cliched as it gets. How do you watch Galaxy Quest and then go make a Star Trek movie?"
THIS is the guy who got the job of reviving Star Trek?

Yes, he's a condescending jerk.

How so?
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

Star Wars is 6 stories which come together as one saga.

And I dont know, if they ignor all of them then its up to the person watching, if its a good story and I enjoy it wanting to see more then I wont mind them taking a fresh look on the universe, we will have to wait another 6 months.

Besides most of the arguments Ive seen here have nothing to do with the stories instead commenting on cosmetic changes to uniforms, sets, ships and aesthetics.

One thing Ive been thinking about more and more is do you really want to go watch (potentially) a series of movies where you know the outcome, for instance you know the Enterprise cant be destroyed as that happens in STIII, Kirk cant die as that happens in Generations etc. I for one will know that these people cant get seriously hurt or killed as I know what their fates are (although in the last Star Wars I found myself wanting Anakin to kill the Emperor even though I knew it wouldnt happen)
 
Re: Would you really care if Star Trek was rebooted anew from now forw

Is it possible that mayb they have decided why Star Trek doesnt appeal to a mainstream audience (or any audience for it to be on TV or at the cinema for that matter) is that it is slightly outdated....hence them updating it, after all alot has changed since the 60s, 70s, 80s and even the late 90s and the early 00's.

From what I am seeing they are trying to rewrite (yes I know thats what your moaning about) the franchise and give it new life, how many times during TOS alone did they contradict themselves to GR 'canon' was ever evolving and he was changing things to perfect his ideas like any artist would (Lasers became Phasers for example).

Now you may argue that this was his right and Abrams or anyone else has no business doing this, but then alot of people dont think Lucas has a right doing anything with a universe he created.

Yea, but in the King Aurther tales they didn't change the swords into six shooters. History and design are two different things.
they did in Romeo and Juliet...bad example:rommie:
TOS is more than one story or tale it is 79 stories. So negating them all is o.k. ?
Tos doesn't need new life. That is still going strong.
 
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