HEROES 3x03 "One Of Us, One Of Them" Discuss and Grade

[A Clockwork Lim]

Someone is still going to have to explain to me how painting the future is a power.

It made sense in Season 1 because the dude WAS A PAINTER!

Seeing the future? That can be a power. Painting is not a power.

Like I said in my previous post; it's painfully obvious that the writers just wanted the original powers back on the show. It sucks, but that's pretty much the only decent explanation to be had for Hip African Painter Dude, Angela the Dreamer, and the Mad Caterpiller.

 

[TheArsenal]

They've set up that it might be a manipulative lie early on, so there'd be no cheapness or idiocy in going through with that angle. Some fans just ran with the possibility way too enthusiastically between episodes, rather than waiting and seeing how it played out in the next episode.

Agreed. Whether it turns out to be the Power of Persuasion or just the plain old talent of persuasion, it is something Ma has been shown to put into use. And we the viewer have been duly notified, in a couple of different ways, that this "you are my son" business may be a manipulation.

 

[diankra]

What's the next "shocking secret" that they're going to trot out and then rescind when the PR value wears off? Nathan reveals that he's Jesus! Arthur Petrelli turns out to be Peter's son and therefore his own grandfather! Noah gets a sex change and becomes Noelle Bennett! Oops, just kidding! We were lying about all of it! Suckers!!!

Not Nathan... Peter's got time travel and the ability to come back to life after dying, so all that's missing is for someone to convince him he has to do it to keep the timeline intact.
The bizarre thing is I could almost see that as a do-able plot device because of the way it would twist Nathan's newly religious mind...

 

[Trekker4747]

Anyone notice that when Claire's mom tried to light up a cigarette they were Morleys?

 

[Icy_Penguigo]

Anyone notice that when Claire's mom tried to light up a cigarette they were Morleys?

I smell a crossover!

And what a sad, strained corssover it would be!

 

[Trekker4747]

Well, I liked this episode and I also really like Daphne/"Speedster Chick."

Hiro's turning into a big dislikable idiot, though.

Seeing Sylar being... "good" and working with Noah was cool and interesting.

Overall, a good episode. This season is going much better than last season.

I wonder if Peter gets to have that sonic-voice power as well as the fire power of the other guy and whatever power the black man had.

And since he shared a room with himself do each of their powers square exponentially?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well you'd have to wonder what's going on with Adam + Claire mixing it up inside Peter. I mean if he's twice as immortal as Adam and Claire, then shouldn't he be getting younger? Or does he have to "turn on" even such a passive power?

Did anyone laugh their ass off when Ali Larter killed The Greatest American Hero? Poor William Kat's legacy was standing in the way of their destiny in the real world about who was the greatest American hero, so they had to put him in his place for the good of the franchise.

 

[Hanover Fiste]

Did anyone laugh their ass off when Ali Larter killed The Greatest American Hero?

Yes. Also wondered if anyone else in the world would appreciate the irony of that.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Actually it's the pilot that implies that her power was something that would make robbery very easy for her. She was picked-up for shoplifting

I'd say that the fact that she was picked up is indication that she does not have a power that would make robbery very easy for her. She just got caught engaging in common shoplifting.

Hmmmm.....maybe he didn't want him to die. Maybe he wanted Nathan to think it was a miracle, to rethink his life. Dying and coming back gives you pause--Peter would know that from first hand experience. I would apologize about how I cursed the writers if that were the case. However, are the writers that smart? Am I giving them too much credit?

Another possibility for Future Peter's motivations is that Nathan suffers a horrible fate in that future, and Peter figures that he's sparing his brother after a fashion.

It would explain how in the hell Peter could be so nonchalant about shooting him, which I never bought in the first place.

He was far from nonchalant--remember the montage scene outside Nathan's hospital room when the doctors were trying to save him?

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Another possibility for Future Peter's motivations is that Nathan suffers a horrible fate in that future, and Peter figures that he's sparing his brother after a fashion

I could get behind that. I just want them to deal with it. I was expecting fallout. I'm getting tired of not seeing it. One brother shooting the other should have been a major focus.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Actually it's the pilot that implies that her power was something that would make robbery very easy for her. She was picked-up for shoplifting

I'd say that the fact that she was picked up is indication that she does not have a power that would make robbery very easy for her. She just got caught engaging in common shoplifting.

I thought at the time that she was attention seeking, that she wanted to get caught. However if Angela could see the future and knew she would be caught and what the immediate and long term ramifications of that capture would be, then she had to get caught to drive Peter and Nathan together there and then at that vital moment to start off the tumbling dominoes to create the future as we...

Or: "They're all going to be dead in a couple days, so it's not really stealing."?

In chess you sacrifice pawns to capture more powerful pieces and/or eventually win the game. She scarified her dignity to... Did the writers have a plan? How long do we assume that they knew what her ability was?

What was Charles Devaeaux's powers? They were certainly dream related, and he argued with Angela over the course of the future... Maybe she can take powers too and she took his?

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

I never said she used her power in the pilot, only that the implication was that her power was something that made robbery very easy for her, explaining why she wanted to feel the rush again.

I really doubt that her empathic dreaming, as presented, would help very much in such a career either. It's all symbolic. In the scenes we've seen with her, none of them have appeared to be literal. So it wouldn't do a very good job of casing a joint, finding out where security will be, learning the combination to a safe, or any of the other solid information she'd need. At least not without spending an exuberant amount of time doing it, researching, and puzzling things out.

I mean, sure, it's easy to say "we never learned what her power was, so it could have been anything." That's exactly the point. But it doesn't fit smoothly with what little we do know from the show. You have to do some serious rationalizing and hammering square pegs into round holes to make it work. Which is why I was pretty disappointed in it and pretty much most of what they've set up with the stories for this season.

 

[3D Master]

I never said she used her power in the pilot, only that the implication was that her power was something that made robbery very easy for her, explaining why she wanted to feel the rush again.

I really doubt that her empathic dreaming, as presented, would help very much in such a career either. It's all symbolic. In the scenes we've seen with her, none of them have appeared to be literal. So it wouldn't do a very good job of casing a joint, finding out where security will be, learning the combination to a safe, or any of the other solid information she'd need. At least not without spending an exuberant amount of time doing it, researching, and puzzling things out.

I mean, sure, it's easy to say "we never learned what her power was, so it could have been anything." That's exactly the point. But it doesn't fit smoothly with what little we do know from the show. You have to do some serious rationalizing and hammering square pegs into round holes to make it work. Which is why I was pretty disappointed in it and pretty much most of what they've set up with the stories for this season.

But if her power made robbery easy for her, she wouldn't have gotten caught, now would she? Indeed, back then we didn't even know the heroes are the second generation. Back then we went under the assumption they were the first. So I see no reason why Angela's robbery in the pilot had anything to do with any power of her at all. So there was no implication one way or the other.

In fact, something that might fit much better, is that she went to do the robbery without any of her power(s?), to get the thrill back of not knowing if she were going to succeed or not. This would rather fit with both precognitive dreams, and any other power she might have or have had.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I was thinking on the toilet... Peter used to dream about flying. I assumed that was dreams about the past, y'know suppressed memories and the such breaking through, but that was obviously what Angela was talking about this week when she said that Peter got his ability to see the future from her, which is not to be confused with Issac or Hiros abilities to "see" the future... So maybe they did have a plan for Angela?

 

[Hermiod]

A thought on this - in season two when Nathan and Matt were investigating the murder of Hiro's father and Angela's involvement, Nathan found the photo of the Company founders and remembered that Bob had visited their house from time to time.

Sure, Peter appears to be considerably younger than his brother (Pasdar is 46, Ventimiglia is 31) but perhaps Peter also encountered them from time to time. This would mean that Peter, knowingly or unknowingly, would have access to their abilities - thus explaining how Peter could have had Linderman's ability to heal others.

However, when Claude was training him how to access previously stored abilities it was made clear that Peter does so by remembering how the "donor" makes him feel. If Peter is unaware of having absorbed an ability, he should not be able to access it because there would be no emotional connection.

But again, that still doesn't work because Peter was able to access abilities randomly after the Haitian removed his memories.

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

But if her power made robbery easy for her, she wouldn't have gotten caught, now would she?

Only if she actually used it. As others have said, she wasn't actually interested in stealing anything. She just wanted the excitement of doing it. She wasn't worried about getting caught, she didn't care what it was.

Indeed, back then we didn't even know the heroes are the second generation. [...] So I see no reason why Angela's robbery in the pilot had anything to do with any power of her at all.

We didn't, the writer's did.

In fact, something that might fit much better, is that she went to do the robbery without any of her power(s?), to get the thrill back of not knowing if she were going to succeed or not. This would rather fit with both precognitive dreams, and any other power she might have or have had.

And like I said, it's easy to try to rationalize after the fact, not matter how goofy or illogical the rationalizations may be.

If she did have that type of power, she would have known who the killer and the threat-maker was in the second season. She wouldn't have been absolutely terrified of the death threats. She would have been able to handle it without breaking a sweat.

 

[FALCONX0N]

I don't think the precognitive dreams are a plot hole. In fact, in explains one, in my mind- -how the Company could have this entire plan set up, to blow up New York, with all these convoluted dominos and moving about of separate pawns, needing it to be done just after the election - -when Linderman would have found out about it when Issac painted the bomb going off, on the floor of his loft, which he, y'know, didn't give to Simone to sell to Linderman.

Sure, you could say that the original plan was just to get Nathan elected, and to that end Linderman was going about, and had heard about the bomb...somehow...and realized it was a neat idea. But in Peter's dream with Charles at the end of season 1, He and Angela hint that they know about the bomb then- -which always bugged me. Except with Mama Petrelli's dream abilities, she could have known about it, months, maybe even years in advance.

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

^ You mean aside from Charles Devereaux painfully obviously being the one with the power originally?

 

[3D Master]

But if her power made robbery easy for her, she wouldn't have gotten caught, now would she?

Only if she actually used it. As others have said, she wasn't actually interested in stealing anything. She just wanted the excitement of doing it. She wasn't worried about getting caught, she didn't care what it was.

Which eliminates the whole thing about "the robbery shows that her power makes robbery easy." If she just did it for the excitement, with or without power, it has nothing to do with the power. And thus, you can't say, "her power originally had something to do with the robbery."

Indeed, back then we didn't even know the heroes are the second generation. [...] So I see no reason why Angela's robbery in the pilot had anything to do with any power of her at all.

We didn't, the writer's did.

What the writers know doesn't matter. The writers write the show for us, essentially. There's no point of making Angela's power have anything to do with the robbery, if we, the viewers, don't even know she has a power.

In fact, something that might fit much better, is that she went to do the robbery without any of her power(s?), to get the thrill back of not knowing if she were going to succeed or not. This would rather fit with both precognitive dreams, and any other power she might have or have had.

And like I said, it's easy to try to rationalize after the fact, not matter how goofy or illogical the rationalizations may be.

What? How can you say my "rationalization" is goofy or illogical when you just used the very same "rationalization" to write of her with her robbery-helping power getting caught doing that robbery?

If she did have that type of power, she would have known who the killer and the threat-maker was in the second season. She wouldn't have been absolutely terrified of the death threats. She would have been able to handle it without breaking a sweat.

Just because you get dreams of the future, doesn't mean you get dreams about every future event ever, nor, obviously, are those dreams fool proof. The future can be changed, so what she saw in her dreams can be wrong. Just like her intentions to nuke New York, as she must have dreamt, and the painter painted, were changed and thus wrong. Thus, when someone intends to kill her, they might very well succeed. Hell, she might have dreamt they indeed succeeded, she be utterly terrified then.

^ You mean aside from Charles Devereaux painfully obviously being the one with the power originally?

Just because he had that power, doesn't mean others couldn't have that power as well, like Angela.

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

Sorry, but I'm not going to argue for the sake of arguing. Especially when you're just continually driving home pedantic points rather than overlooking the complete picture of said argument. I've explained that complete picture more than enough times already, so doing so is completely pointless, especially since it'll just lead you down this road again.

If you want to see my retorts to anything you've said, just use the scroll up wheel on your mouse to find them.