Even I have standards ("A Night in Sickbay")...
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number6
Vice Admiral
Because his father designed the engine.
Sorry I forgot how much better Captain Trip would have been what was I thinking
How was he to have prepared for these diplomatic missions when he had only met with Vulcans who didn't seem to have been helpful except for giving their database.No one on Earth had met with these cultures.The writers put Archer in these situations and would have put any captain in them it is important to remember.
How was he to have prepared for these diplomatic missions when he had only met with Vulcans who didn't seem to have been helpful except for giving their database.No one on Earth had met with these cultures.The writers put Archer in these situations and would have put any captain in them it is important to remember.
Captain X
Rear Admiral
My, what a compelling qualification for command...
Except no one said anything about Trip being in command.
It's called training. They have training in diplomacy even now.
Which really doesn't mean all that much. Even common sense could've prevented tard mistakes like he made in ANiS.
I've already gone on record as saying it wouldn't have mattered which character was in command, because the writers would have written them to be just as arrogant and incompetent, because they apparently had no idea what leadership was supposed to be like.
What, and rob us of Mayweather's unique voice?
number6
Vice Admiral
"Pedal to the Metal!!!"
Ah, Travis. We remember him well. Because his face is about all he ever made an impression with.
Well said, Angie, even if I'm not sure everybody has understood it
.As for Starfleet being military, I have some doubts myself. I don't think they are strictly military organization, even if they have some military-like training. Their goal, at least at the beginning, is certainly not a military one.
Captain X
Rear Admiral
That's because it's just a jab at Tucker fans and has nothing to do with Archer's alleged incompetence. I hate to break it to you or her, or anyone else, but my thinking Archer is a failure as a captain has nothing to do with my being a Trip fan. I've even said more than once that it would not matter who was written as the captain, they would have been written just as poorly as Archer was, and just as poorly as Janeway was before him. What makes me think this? Aside from the aforementioned Janeway example ("the captain is always right, even when she's wrong"
), every other character shown to be in command (Lorian, T'Pol, and yes, even Trip) has been presented in pretty much the same way. In fact, the only time they weren't poorly presented was when they weren't being made to either make Archer look better, or when they were only temporarily in command. This tells me that the writers didn't really know what leadership looked like, so they pretty much went along with the idea that the captain is always right no matter what because he's wearing four pips on his uniform.Historically the military has had plenty to do with exploration. Even now the USN operates plenty of research vessels. But the thing that makes Starfleet a military more than anything is how it responds to threats. Even ignoring the obvious militarism in the other series that take place later, you still have an armed ship with a military command structure engaging in armed conflict numerous times, and at one point taking an overtly military action in response to an attack on their planet. You also have other Starfleet ships attacking Klingon ships that are violating Earth space and in defense of Enterprise. Civilian research vessels aren't even armed, and they certainly don't participate in military actions beyond moving troops or cargo.
That's because it's just a jab at Tucker fans and has nothing to do with Archer's alleged incompetence. I hate to break it to you or her, or anyone else, but my thinking Archer is a failure as a captain has nothing to do with my being a Trip fan. I've even said more than once that it would not matter who was written as the captain, they would have been written just as poorly as Archer was, and just as poorly as Janeway was before him. What makes me think this? Aside from the aforementioned Janeway example ("the captain is always right, even when she's wrong"
Ah, I see, it's not Archer per se that gets your goat, it's the writer's imagining of what makes a commander that shivers your timbers.
Arrrr, ya scallywag.
Hmmmm.....
Well said, Angie, even if I'm not sure everybody has understood it
As for Starfleet being military, I have some doubts myself. I don't think they are strictly military organization, even if they have some military-like training. Their goal, at least at the beginning, is certainly not a military one.
Admiral Forrest (who was a commodore in First Flight)
Captain Archer
Commander Tucker
Lieutenant Reed
Ensigns Sato (who was busted out of the service for assaulting a superior officer) and Mayweather
Kirk gets court-martialed
Admiral Kirk gets busted down to captain for disobeying orders.
Military command structure. Military justice. Ships bristling with weapons that aren't exactly available on the average family shuttlepod.
If it's not military, it's at least paramilitary (i.e. state police, Texas rangers). And from the Trek I've seen -- and I've seen 'em all -- this is a military organization. In either case, you obey orders and you conduct yourself with the discipline that was drummed into you from Day One.
Captain X
Rear Admiral
Aye, when the writers be makin' th' cap'n a Squiffy son of a biscuit eater instead o' a man or lass I can respect, they be needin' to walk the plank. Savvy?
It wouldn't have mattered what the character's name was or who played them, if the captain was presented the way Archer was, they would still be a bad captain.
It wouldn't have mattered what the character's name was or who played them, if the captain was presented the way Archer was, they would still be a bad captain.
uhh
there are other species on earth besides the vulcans.
the interspecies medical exchange has been established.
they are already in contact with and trade with other alien cultures within 30 light years of earth.
there would have been lots of opportunity for archer to get diplomatic training.
and once again it would have made sense for him to have recieved it since enterprises mission was one of exploration and of contacting other species.
plus what he did on that planet was just poor manners period.
a good dog owner just dosnt let his dog run free in a city.
especially without conferring with the owners of the property first.
A good dog owner also asks for permission to bring the dog to someone else's home. And I doubt that e-mailing Porthos's genome to the Kretassans was adequate notice they would be welcoming to their planet an "alien" that would be running around leaving stinky messes for them to clean up.
Could have been worse, though. Archer could have given Porthos a dog biscuit in front of them.
We don't know how many or which type, or that anyone outside of the medical area interacted with them.
I think they are differentiating between experience and training. I have been trained in how to write queries for Oracle about 9 years ago, but I have since had no experience in doing so -- no practical application. See the difference?
Experience -- as I've said before -- always trumps "training."
RobertScorpio
Pariah
A Night In Sickbay is one of the few episodes I actually remember..and I though it was okay...not great...but as bad as Precious Cargo? No way...
Rob
Rob
What species were on Earth?The crew looked to T'Pol and/or the database and to my knowledge except Travis no one mentioned interacting with any other species. Archer seemed surprised when he met Phlox. And why would Archer have been included in any diplomatic talks if there were any?
Captain X
Rear Admiral
Yeah, I'm real sure Earth wouldn't take the opportunity to learn anything about any of the aliens they invited to participate in their program or establish any kind of diplomatic relationship with them first.
Experience helps, but a lack of experience doesn't excuse an obvious lack of training. Even if you've never done anything before, if you've been trained to do it, you should still have a fairly good idea how to do it. Not to mention the common sense factor here, which I note has been ignored.
I'm sure if I really wanted to, I could look this up on Memory Alpha, but we know that Earth had a diplomatic relationship with Denobula. We also know in Terra Prime that Peter Weller's character was bitching about all the aliens running around on Earth, and we even got to see some nameless aliens working up on the moon. So they had something to work with as far as expanding on existing diplomatic training.
So? Either that's bad writing or it shows ignorance on Archer's part.
Aside from getting some, you know, experience at dealing with aliens before he heads out to explore and seek out more of them, gee, I can't imagine why. Not that anyone mentioned that, but it would be a pretty good idea to give him some practical application of what he learned in the classroom, since he was supposed to be a trained diplomat and all.
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