Even I have standards ("A Night in Sickbay")...

[cooleddie74]

^
On the bright side, Archer's greenness, ineptitude and clumsiness can always be chalked up to being one of the earliest starship captains in Starfleet. Were, say, Kirk or Sisko to act this way it'd be a lot more annoying and glaring and out-of-character for a fleet and service that is supposed to be a lot more experienced, tested and professional by their times.

 

[angie]

cooleddie---the point I tried to make!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Captain X]

And the point I already soundly struck down. There are still a number of things going against Archer as presented by the writers. Even with absolutely no experience in deep space exploration (ignoring all the contacts UE was already established to have made), he still had his training and experience as a senior officer. Officers are expected to conduct themselves professionally and according to the regulations that govern their organization. This is especially true for the commander of Earth's first deep space exploratory vessel because he or she would be in essence representing Earth. Stands to reason you'd want the best person you had to offer to do that then, right? Archer was definitely not the best Earth had to offer, and he very rarely conducted himself in a professional manner. In fact, he rarely conducted himself in a manner reflecting that he had an once of common sense, particularly in this episode. People need to recognize the difference between inexperience and incompetence. Archer doesn't get a pass for being a dumb ass just because he was "the first captain" (which he wasn't, btw, since there were other older ships in Starfleet). This doesn't even take into account the experienced Vulcan officer he had serving on his ship, whose advice he continually spurned despite having requested she stay on as his first officer. Good leaders know how to utilize their resources, and T'Pol was a valuable resource he continually let go to waste.

Seriously cooleddie74, go back over this thread from the beginning and look at the points that have been made by myself and others. There is no excuse for the Archer to have acted the way he did in this episode.

 

[KendraW]

i get the idea behid this episode, the whole thing where archer is learning to become a great captain, he's the first and makes mistakes, and all that! the evolution towards captains like picard (my personal favorite)

This is an example of the problems in trying to make a captain make a genuine, adult and considered screw up but still not that big a mistake that he loses all credibility respect and his job. and ANIS is the story we got. it was total shite. problem is, Like alot of people were saying it's not a mistake of an inexperienced captain but a total fool. I can't think of anyone that would make such a blunder.

the problem is the whole idea of primitinve captain growing, learning, evolving is hard to do becuase how much more correct can our, (us I mean, people today,) ideas get, if you know what i mean.

Like we are trying to show a dude transform his moral codeish thing to coincide to what we already believe today as being the ideal behaviour. am i making sence? There is no higher code because we are at the height of it because we're living the future. so any evolving must place the character behind in order to have him grow to our lvl. so unless we think that in the trek future humans de-evolved their way of thinking so that it could again reach what WE believe is correct behaviourly speaking this makes no sence.

Ugh! god im sooo shite at getting my ideas across!! im confusing myself here lol.

Ok i get it again. right so after WW3... this is actually possible, maybe enterpries should have been a more severly predudiced and backward place. like it was back in the 60ies, it could then actually explain archers bechaviour and ultimately would have lead in to TOS alot better too. I think they tried to touch on that But the writers wanted us to like the captain and crew and so thats gonna conflict. so they should have just scraped the idea instead of feeding us the crap that was ANIS. because now we can't excuse archers bahaviour becuase the universe this is set is set in one where the people appear to be as socially uptodate as we are today.

I'm also one of thoes peeps that really wanted Archer to succeed and constantly disappointed and it did get right on my wick.

i think it was also meant as a fun romp, unfortuantly it was more embarrasing and plain stupid than anything else.

 

[Trippy]

unfortuantly it was more embarrasing and plain stupid than anything else.

Embarassing sort of sums up my opinon on the episode. I also call it character assasination. No worries though, Trip had his episode in Precious Cargo and T'Pol had hers in Bounty. And I still liked all three characters after their respective terrible and embarassing episodes!

Then again, when the show originally aired, I stopped watching after ANIS and didn't tune in again 'till the premiere of Season Three...caught Season Two when the dvds came out.

 

[Captain X]

T'Pol had hers in Bounty.

And The Seventh, and Harbinger, and Damage...

 

[KendraW]

you know thats interesting... why are we so forgiving of T'Pol's written character compared to Archer?

 

[Captain X]

I'm not, but with ANiS the focus is primarily on Archer, as is most of the series for that matter. He is the "star" after all.

 

[commodore64]

Kendra, I think people are more forgiving of Trip's character than either T'Pol or Archer put together. Trip makes a few big time mistakes (besides Precious Cargo) and for some reason it's chalked up as "charming" or "human." One of the great mysteries of this board.

 

[KendraW]

i have a kind of woha and wtf meter that goes off and thats how i judge the characters and episodes and between the three of them I'd say trip set it off the least. oddly that i disliked him so much in the beginning.

I just realised that I do my lvl best to excuse and forgive T'Pol's character flaws in just about every situation and yet I can't seem to forgive Archer any of his and I really love SB in QL. maybe he'll just always be sam beckett for me and i cant get over him doing anything else lol

 

[Captain X]

Kendra, I think people are more forgiving of Trip's character than either T'Pol or Archer put together. Trip makes a few big time mistakes (besides Precious Cargo) and for some reason it's chalked up as "charming" or "human."

Such as? Cogenitor is about the only one I can think of of hand, but by all means, let's make this about Trip again even though the episode we're discussing is about Archer.

 

[trj]

why do people insist on dragging tucker into this?by the way in precious cargo that was archers bad,he let 2 numbskulls in a cargo vessel make a fool of him

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

There was a post upthread that mentioned other characters in the context of being featured in episodes that didn't necessarily show them in a good light.

We can get back on topic to ANiS, if there is more you feel compelled to say. But if the discussion is drifting toward a comparison of the characters' acceptance/rejection by viewers, that's a subject for a new thread.

 

[cooleddie74]

cooleddie---the point I tried to make!!!!!!!!!!

That's why I'm here!

Well...for stuff like this...and the free gaming tokens and pizza.

 

[Penguin]

What I didn't like about ANIS, among other things, was the constant harping on the Sexual Tension of Archer toward T-Pol and dr Phlox constantly bringing it up. He wouldn't let it alone.

Se we had two silly scenes, one of Archer holding t-Pol's hand and the other in Decon where Archer is kissing T-Pol. Needless.

I rate ANIS right along with TATV

 

[angie]

Funny that is what I enjoyed about ANIS and since it was featured in the previews I assume it contributed to the ep being one of the most watched of the series run.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Most Watched to Best equals not. ANIS is episode forbidden.

 

[Captain X]

Not to mention the huge drop off in ratings the week afterwards - all those people tuned in to see naked T'Pol and all they got was a minute of wet dream and a bunch of sophomoric Freudian slips in an episode that sucked so horribly they elected not to tune in for the next episode. But then we've had this argument umpteen times now.

 

[Penguin]

Believe scen in Decon of Archer kissing T-Pol highlighted the lack of chemistry between the Characters (and the Actors)

In the Scene T-Pol (Jolene) only looked Archer in the face one time the rest of the scene she was loooking down. the kiss was brief and without any passion.

There was absolutley NO chemistry between the characters (and seemingly none between the actors.)

So the sexual tensions was one sided.

Frankly, thought ANIS would have been better without this aspect in it. Didn't help the episode one bit and certainly didn't develope the relationship between Archer and T-Pol

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Welcome to the forum, Penguin.

Because you're new here, you may not be aware that we've had dust-ups in the past regarding discussions of relationships between characters on Enterprise. As a consequence, it's important to respectful of the opinions of others when it comes to discussing relationships here.

Keep in mind that there are members here who do see a chemistry between Archer and T'Pol, be it a friendship vibe or something more, and that interpretation is as valid as yours. It would be helpful if you would dial back your judgmentalism a little.

That goes for other posters here as well, and not just about relationships. I am aware this episode engenders extreme emotional responses, but c'mon. Chill. It's a TV show, mmmkay?