endgame, the best trek finale?
- Thread starter TheDoctor
- Start date
Human error, q2, author author, friendship one, Natural law, Homestead, renaisance Man?
The Borgette and the indian go camping and they probably don't have sex to keep warm and this is probably not the beginning of their relationship, Kathy meets her nephew and has a play date, the Doctor tries to leave and finds that no one but Kathy respects him even after he punked her, killing Joe Carey, Neelix leaving, the doctor punking the crew because they are idiots he can't trust...
How is that rounding off these people's stories of these people positively?
There is no journey and there is no destination.
The Borgette and the indian go camping and they probably don't have sex to keep warm and this is probably not the beginning of their relationship, Kathy meets her nephew and has a play date, the Doctor tries to leave and finds that no one but Kathy respects him even after he punked her, killing Joe Carey, Neelix leaving, the doctor punking the crew because they are idiots he can't trust...
How is that rounding off these people's stories of these people positively?
There is no journey and there is no destination.
Hell no. They were there for Admiral Janeway to die. It was all a suicide trip.
The Hansen's cloaky thing still worked, the tech it's based on is so intrinsic to how borg work that they can't adapt to it, otherwise it never would have worked again after the Hansen's were discovered 20 years later.
Hell, if the admiral just bought a single transwarp coil along with her, they managed to effect 30 thousand light years of travel out of the last one they stole. Frack the spacial drive on her shuttle was powerful enough to ferry back crew stuffed like sardines in with her back to earth and back to voyager in a couple dozen trips of 5 to 10 minutes.
There was no reason whatsoever to attack the Borg. In fact think back to the borg rebellion which became all much ado about nothing... Voyager should have tucked in under that Sphere's shields and gone home, but Admiral Janeway who knows the final fate of that sally, decided that was a stupid point to return to.
The Hansen's cloaky thing still worked, the tech it's based on is so intrinsic to how borg work that they can't adapt to it, otherwise it never would have worked again after the Hansen's were discovered 20 years later.
Hell, if the admiral just bought a single transwarp coil along with her, they managed to effect 30 thousand light years of travel out of the last one they stole. Frack the spacial drive on her shuttle was powerful enough to ferry back crew stuffed like sardines in with her back to earth and back to voyager in a couple dozen trips of 5 to 10 minutes.
There was no reason whatsoever to attack the Borg. In fact think back to the borg rebellion which became all much ado about nothing... Voyager should have tucked in under that Sphere's shields and gone home, but Admiral Janeway who knows the final fate of that sally, decided that was a stupid point to return to.
I couldnt agree more, Doc--EG is a GREAT finale. It's thrilling, epic, and deeply moving. And it plays like a two-part episode rather than a bland and overblown recap. It's also brilliantly acted. How any VOY fan can fail to be wowed by the Adm J/Captain J scenes, and esp the AdmJ/Captain J scenes bewilders me.
Bringing loved ones from all over the galaxy to be in one place because they somehow know that Voyager is about to appear? The crew's loved ones are scattered everywhere. The ship left from DS9, so does it return there, where Naomi's dad used to work, or the Badlands where they met the Maquis, or Earth, where some of the human crew's families might still live, or the starbase where Admiral Paris and Barclay are... or, where?
You can't tell me that every episode in season seven was integral (Two of them were, Tom and B'Elanna getting serious and Neelix leaving, every thing else was filler.) that one could have been side lined to create a three part Endgame, which carried on past what we saw to see if Janeway is court martialed and if the Maquis are pardoned and if the Equinox 5 are pardoned? Janeway going to get her dog off mark, and to erase his wife. Y'know stuff needed to be said.
I recall thinking how delightful it was to have so much time Crichton on Farscape was allotted to deal with the ramifications of his homecoming, because the producers had the good sense to allow Moya arrive half a season before cancellation.
The last 4 episodes of Babylon 5, maybe the last 6, seemed like a death rattle. It was almost half as distended as the final Lord of the Rings.
I recall thinking how delightful it was to have so much time Crichton on Farscape was allotted to deal with the ramifications of his homecoming, because the producers had the good sense to allow Moya arrive half a season before cancellation.
The last 4 episodes of Babylon 5, maybe the last 6, seemed like a death rattle. It was almost half as distended as the final Lord of the Rings.
The thing is the two Janeways at once was already done in "Deadlock".
It was like a videogame.
Overloaded with SFX, uber-technology and yet again MORE Borg.
"All Good Things" is probably the best finale.
Overloaded with SFX, uber-technology and yet again MORE Borg.
"All Good Things" is probably the best finale.
I found Endgame to be just one huge Deus ex Machina. It fit together all too neatly.
I've been reading a really loooong fanfic that re-imagines the final season. In that one, Chakotay and Janeway realize they love each other and can make a relationship work. They get married, Janeway gets pregnant (with twins!), and when they come across the Borg hub, they run in the opposite direction. The Chakotay/Seven relationship never happens, as Seven starts dating Ayala(?). As for them getting back to the Alpha Quadrant, they do manage that... by dashing through a wormhole while trying to escape a completely different species that wants to kill them. They don't even know where the wormhole leads, but they're willing to risk it because if they don't, they definitely will end up dead. So they end up in the Alpha Quadrant, but not on Earth's doorstep. They're still 15,000-20,000 lightyears from Earth, and they didn't come out in friendly territory. I'm not quite halfway through the story, so I don't know what will happen next, but I'm sure it will involve somebody coming along and accusing them of trespassing or whatever...
Actually, I interpreted that scene as simply her unfamiliarity with the whole process of eating. We take it for granted, but Seven's been out of practice for over 20 years. And notice how she holds the cutlery? She does it like a little kid would -- a little kid of the age Seven was when she was assimilated. She just needs to practice a bit, and the old behavioral patterns should return.How about that? Neelix had to teach her how to eat like she never ate before in her life...I found that odd.There are parts of her that do exist... She loves strawberries
Turnabout Intruder was never intended to be the series finale. They thought they were going on to a fourth season, so nobody had written a finale.
I've been reading a really loooong fanfic that re-imagines the final season. In that one, Chakotay and Janeway realize they love each other and can make a relationship work. They get married, Janeway gets pregnant (with twins!), and when they come across the Borg hub, they run in the opposite direction. The Chakotay/Seven relationship never happens, as Seven starts dating Ayala(?). As for them getting back to the Alpha Quadrant, they do manage that... by dashing through a wormhole while trying to escape a completely different species that wants to kill them. They don't even know where the wormhole leads, but they're willing to risk it because if they don't, they definitely will end up dead. So they end up in the Alpha Quadrant, but not on Earth's doorstep. They're still 15,000-20,000 lightyears from Earth, and they didn't come out in friendly territory. I'm not quite halfway through the story, so I don't know what will happen next, but I'm sure it will involve somebody coming along and accusing them of trespassing or whatever...
Could you post or pm a link to the fanfic? Thanks.
Personally, Im glad that they left all of the characters' fates up to our imaginations. VOY got a major reboot from S4 on. It became a different kind of show, one about epic storytelling and larger than life characters. I hardly think it's fair to expect the finale to completely revert back to the style established in the first two seasons. I think it's best to experience EG as Janeway's "A Christmas Carol"--with Adm J as a kind of Ghost of Christmas Future. Looking at all the plot holes and the outlandish deprives the episode of its entertaining qualities but also its emotional truths and power.
It's a fairy tale morality play with thrilling action.
But Im also glad that not everything--such as Janeway's romantic life--got all neatly tied up by the end.
It's a fairy tale morality play with thrilling action.
But Im also glad that not everything--such as Janeway's romantic life--got all neatly tied up by the end.
What's the problem here? It needn't happen in real time. It's television, they could easily have shown Tuvok back on Vulcan meeting his family or whatever had they chosen.
I've been reading a really loooong fanfic that re-imagines the final season. In that one, Chakotay and Janeway realize they love each other and can make a relationship work. They get married, Janeway gets pregnant (with twins!), and when they come across the Borg hub, they run in the opposite direction. The Chakotay/Seven relationship never happens, as Seven starts dating Ayala(?). As for them getting back to the Alpha Quadrant, they do manage that... by dashing through a wormhole while trying to escape a completely different species that wants to kill them. They don't even know where the wormhole leads, but they're willing to risk it because if they don't, they definitely will end up dead. So they end up in the Alpha Quadrant, but not on Earth's doorstep. They're still 15,000-20,000 lightyears from Earth, and they didn't come out in friendly territory. I'm not quite halfway through the story, so I don't know what will happen next, but I'm sure it will involve somebody coming along and accusing them of trespassing or whatever...
Could you post or pm a link to the fanfic? Thanks.
Yeah! What's the link?
With twins? Dear God...
If that isn't one of the worst cliches used in bad Voyager fanfiction... It's right up there along with drunken proclamations of love in the mess hall, Janeway and Chakotay singing their enduring love for each other in a talent show, the Doctor miraculously becoming human so that he can boink Seven properly, and--my absolute favorite--Janeway and Chakotay riding off on horseback into the sunset together.
Janeway and Chakotay riding off on horseback into the sunset together.
given how often the holodeck malfunctions, this one could be interesting!
With twins? Dear God...
If that isn't one of the worst cliches used in bad Voyager fanfiction... It's right up there along with drunken proclamations of love in the mess hall, Janeway and Chakotay singing their enduring love for each other in a talent show, the Doctor miraculously becoming human so that he can boink Seven properly, and--my absolute favorite--Janeway and Chakotay riding off on horseback into the sunset together.
Well with 127,000 websites dedicated to J/C (according to Google) you're bound to get some real fanfic clunkers!
Yeah twins are a cliche along with hospital stays from complicated pregnancies, songfics, etc. but I'm more interested in the "Endgame" alternative aspects.
With twins? Dear God...
If that isn't one of the worst cliches used in bad Voyager fanfiction... It's right up there along with drunken proclamations of love in the mess hall, Janeway and Chakotay singing their enduring love for each other in a talent show, the Doctor miraculously becoming human so that he can boink Seven properly, and--my absolute favorite--Janeway and Chakotay riding off on horseback into the sunset together.
You left out my favorite--where Seven becomes a shy, naive ingenue who is overwhelmed by the complexity of this brave new world and seeks refuge in the arms of a wise, almost paternal Chakotay who patiently teaches her how to cross streets with the lights and tie her shoes all by herself.
And, hey, I'd think the EMH could come up with the wherewhithal for a proper boinking without becoming human! Isn't that what holodeck sex is all about?
