Niners: what are your opinions on the 4 TNG films?

[Photon]

IMO, the show that really needs a movie is VOY. I actually quite like that show...but Endgame totally ruined it. I would love to see a VOY movie give that show a better ending. And let's face it...the ending to VOY we have now is so terrible that any movie ending would be an improvement.

I'd like to see alot of DS9 included in a Voyager movie. Perhaps it goes to the GQ to find an ousted Odo and bring him back to the Federation and debrief him (not Kira, de-breifing him)And....his last words during the debrieifing bring a horrible chill to the Feds, regarding the New Dominion and their Hirogen allies

 

[indranee]

I was thinking TPTB could have Kept the E-D around for the movies (Maybe a Big upgrade and/or refit), and destroying E-D necessary at the end of Nemesis. It would make better sense and not make the TNG crew look really incompetent. Just a thought.

ITA.

 

[Anthony Sabre]

The only TNG movie I really liked was Generations. It was nice to see Kirk in action once again. First Contact was only OK in my book. Insurrection sucked and Nemesis sucked more. Nemesis was a serious disappointment for me because I had wanted a movie with the Romulans as the enemy for a long time.

On the flip side I liked all of the TOS movies except TFF. My favs are 1, 2 and 6.

 

[Surefire]

In my opinion...

Generations was average. Rating: 75/100
First Contact was very good. Rating: 88/100
Insurrection was average. Rating 76/100
Nemesis was dog crap. Rating: 48/100

None of the TNG films matched DS9 quality. (and I'm a TNG fan saying this)

 

[Harvey]

First Contact was a great Star Trek movie.

Generations and Insurrection are both average movies, suffering from unevenness and problems with humor.

Nemesis is a dog of a film. Besides looking pretty, and a *few* scenes, it's not worth a second look. I know I haven't seen it since I bought the DVD (the features are nice, though).

 

[Harvey]

I was thinking TPTB could have Kept the E-D around for the movies (Maybe a Big upgrade and/or refit), and destroying E-D necessary at the end of Nemesis. It would make better sense and not make the TNG crew look really incompetent. Just a thought.

The problem with the Enterprise-D is that it was designed for a fullscreen, 4:3 frame. It looks ugly in widescreen, especially from certain angles, a few of which appear in Generations. Perhaps they could have dispatched of the big D in another way, but ushering in the Enterprise-E was a necessary move, visually. IMO.

 

[Surefire]

I was thinking TPTB could have Kept the E-D around for the movies (Maybe a Big upgrade and/or refit), and destroying E-D necessary at the end of Nemesis. It would make better sense and not make the TNG crew look really incompetent. Just a thought.

The problem with the Enterprise-D is that it was designed for a fullscreen, 4:3 frame. It looks ugly in widescreen, especially from certain angles, a few of which appear in Generations. Perhaps they could have dispatched of the big D in another way, but ushering in the Enterprise-E was a necessary move, visually. IMO.

In my opinion, the Enterprise-E looked awful in the movies. From angles above, it looks like a flat pancake shaped shovel.

The only movie that the E-E looked halfway decent, IMO, was Nemesis...

 

[Lateralus]

I too wish the Enterprise D had lasted through at least one more movie.

I absolutely love the Galaxy class design. Probably my favorite Starfleet ship. And the only reason I ever watch Generations is to see a Galaxy class looking better than it has ever looked, before or since.

In the same way that Kirk's death in Generations was a letdown to practically every Trekkie, as was the way the destruction of the Enterprise D.

Beaten by some piece of shit BoP? Because of a shield modulation frequency that was conveniently displayed on a LCARS panel?

Pfffft... Berman. What a dick.

 

[smeos]

^They didn't ignore the Dominion war. It's referenced in both Insurrection and Nemesis.

You've got to remember that they make movies for everyone, not just fans. You can't expect non-fans, or even people casually aware of TNG to know the ins and outs of what's going on in a weekly spin-off that they don't watch.

They could have summed up the Dominion and the war in a single card at the beginning of the movie, and filled in the details in some minor dialog at the start. People (not just ST fans) go to a movie to be entertained. I think that the average viewer would have found the Jem'Hadar and the Founders much, much more interesting than what we got.

Hell, you could have even worked the Ba'ku into the plot, but with a different villain, and it would have been a better movie, without the plot holes.

 

[Hermiod]

^I don't think Ira and co would have liked Michael Piller stepping on their toes.

 

[smeos]

^I don't think Ira and co would have liked Michael Piller stepping on their toes.

I don't think he would have minded, as long as it was done well. They knew going in that the war was a big thing, and would have had no right to be pissed off about it. As long as it was done well, I don't see how it would have been a problem. If, on the other hand, the Enterprise single-handedly ended the war and saved the Federation, then yes, a lot of people would have been upset.

Either way, Ira was a bit lower on the totem pole, anyway.

 

[Hermiod]

^I don't disagree that the Dominion would have been much more interesting villains than the Son'a were. With some effort they could have explained who they were. Make it obvious, say that the Federation is at war with these people and then show a Founder shapeshifting early on.

However, at this point Ira was pretty much running DS9 on his own. Deep Space 9 got a lot less attention and interference from Berman than Voyager and the movies did.

Ira did mind when the movies caused him problems. He was furious when the First Contact script (co-written by one of his own people, Ron Moore) called for the destruction of the Defiant.

 

[Lateralus]

The destruction of the Defiant? Ridiculous.

It would have carried no weight for the average person going into the theater to see the movie. It would have just been yet another ship blown up by the really cool cube thing. But it would have had immense ramifications for DS9.

Sometimes I'm not surprised Star Trek has been dead for practically all of this decade.

 

[Hermiod]

^That's why Ira said he would not acknowledge it on his show. The Defiant would turn up, untouched, in "For the Uniform" (which was the next episode after First Contact in the in universe chronology) as far as he was concerned.

They compromised and added the line suggesting that the Defiant was "adrift but salvageable". They couldn't just remove the Defiant completely as that was how they planned to get Worf on to the Enterprise.

 

[Lateralus]

Lovely.

I wonder who is responsible setting Trek up with a group of writers who all had differing opinions but relatively equal pull on the franchise through overlapping canons.

 

[Hermiod]

^Star Trek is not like most other franchises. Very few other shows have spin-offs and movies overlapping with each other.

The closest things in reality are the two big comic book companies, Marvel and DC, who have multiple overlapping titles featuring the same characters. Both companies have editors who manage the continuity between all of their titles. Even then, things slip through the cracks.

Ultimately, with Star Trek, whatever Rick Berman said would have been the last word.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

In general, I like TV Trek far more than Movie Trek. That two hour format just seems too short for its scope.

For TNG movies, FC was fine; the others sucked.

I like some of the TOS movies but to be blunt, the actors were too old by that point. Just seemed like they were milking things. I'm very interested in the recasting, though, and hope it will work both in movies and TV.

I wonder who is responsible setting Trek up with a group of writers who all had differing opinions but relatively equal pull on the franchise through overlapping canons.

Market forces. Trying to coordinate the opinions and approaches of so many different writers to keep churning stuff out to satisfy demand has to be a complete nightmare. Star Trek has been pretty coherent when you take that into consideration. Not that I wouldn't like them to run a tighter ship from now on - if the Abrams team works out, they should do that.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

I too wish the Enterprise D had lasted through at least one more movie.

I absolutely love the Galaxy class design. Probably my favorite Starfleet ship. And the only reason I ever watch Generations is to see a Galaxy class looking better than it has ever looked, before or since.

In the same way that Kirk's death in Generations was a letdown to practically every Trekkie, as was the way the destruction of the Enterprise D.

Beaten by some piece of shit BoP? Because of a shield modulation frequency that was conveniently displayed on a LCARS panel?

Pfffft... Berman. What a dick.

I agree. Generations was very flawed but NOT as much as INS and NEM. Those are still crap films, IMHO.

 

[Hermiod]

Trying to coordinate the opinions and approaches of so many different writers to keep churning stuff out to satisfy demand has to be a complete nightmare. Star Trek has been pretty coherent when you take that into consideration.

Back in the day when the shows were still running I used to get all sorts of people trying to pick holes with Trek's internal continuity. Apart from the odd gaffe (Tuvok's age suddenly changing, for one) I found that most of the things people thought were errors were actually just contradicting that most sacred of things - fanon.

We've generally got people like the Okudas to thank for that. It's certainly a lot better than Jessica Fletcher and her endless supply of nieces and nephews who we've never seen before.

 

[Surefire]

Also, please share your opinions on the 6 TOS feature films in comparison to that of DS9. Thanks.

ST 1, TMP: Lousy, dull, a waste of time. Tied for worst TOS movie: 40/100
ST 2, TWOK: Excellent, the second best of the TOS movies. 90/100
ST 3, TSFS: Above average, enjoyable but not great. 80/100
ST 4, TVH: Outstanding, the best TOS movie: 92/100
ST 5, TFF: Terrible, tied for worse TOS movie: 39/100 (the riduculous plot knocks the tying point off)
ST 6, TUD: Very good, I'd say third best overall: 87/100

Compared to DS9, I would clearly give the win to DS9. It was an outstanding long story arc of high quality. It really picked up in season two and kept getting better (peaking in seasons 4 and 5). Seasons 6 and 7 begin to slip a bit, but were still very good overall.

Disclaimer: The above is all my humble opinion. Yours will vary.