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Niners: what are your opinions on the 4 TNG films?

(I only want the Niners' opinions on this...so Mods, do not move this to the Movie forum. Thanks.)

Seriously, what were your reactions to GEN, FC, INS, and NEM, especially in comparison to the events, the writing, and the creativity involved in DS9?

Did you also want there to be a DS9 film? A DS9 film under the production of Rick Berman?

What did you think of the overall disclusion of DS9 from the "TNG film-verse?" Was the brief appearance of the USS Defiant and the name dropping of the "Dominion War" enough for you?

Did you consider the quality of the 4 TNG films to be on par or below that of the usual DS9 episode?

Finally, if there were 4 DS9 feature films made, what would you want the overall plot to be for the 4 films. Would you want them to be standalone films or connected like the TOS feature films?
 
For me, anyway, there's really no comparison. You can hem and haw about the quality of episodes between DS9 and TNG, but the latters movie franchise has no excuse considering that they had a bigger budget and (one would assume) more attention paid to it during production.

Generations was all right. First Contact was good (although I would have liked to see O'Brien show up as well) but the last two were crap.

Sure, I'd like a DS9 movie, but it won't happen.
 
First contact was good. Generation was interesting but it all went down hill by Nemesis. A Ds9 movie would be interesting but I don't feel it would be good. DS( was a space sation...it was important and exciting during the war but with the war over does it really have a purpose? To me a film about DS9 would only be like a long episode. It would need to be a movie on a ship and the ds9 characters would all have to be brought back togather, or united. Purhaps in the search or way to bring back Benjamin.

A Voyager Movie would have more options.
 
(I only want the Niners' opinions on this...so Mods, do not move this to the Movie forum. Thanks.)

Seriously, what were your reactions to GEN, FC, INS, and NEM, especially in comparison to the events, the writing, and the creativity involved in DS9?

Did you also want there to be a DS9 film? A DS9 film under the production of Rick Berman?

What did you think of the overall disclusion of DS9 from the "TNG film-verse?" Was the brief appearance of the USS Defiant and the name dropping of the "Dominion War" enough for you?

Did you consider the quality of the 4 TNG films to be on par or below that of the usual DS9 episode?

Finally, if there were 4 DS9 feature films made, what would you want the overall plot to be for the 4 films. Would you want them to be standalone films or connected like the TOS feature films?

two good TNG movies:
Nemesis
FC

two bad
Generations (passable at best)
Insurrection (worst st movie period)

DS9 quality was all over the map - from good to bad - the two good TNG movies I list above were generally superior to DS9 - especially thanks to the acting of Stewart/Spiner and guests

NO RICK BERMAN NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The TNG references were fine - no need for fanboy porn

Standalone movies
 
First Contact was okay. Generations and Insurrection were "meh" and Nemesis was shit. The quality was lower than DS9, as well as TNG (the show).

TOS lended itself far better to the big screen. I'd chalk that up to the time since the series as well as the smaller cast.

I didn't care about the "disclusion". The TNG movies were just that. TNG movies. Generations and Nemesis would have been better off without the TOS and Voyager stuff.

A DS9 movie would have been nice (except under Berman), but not practical. The show had a niche appeal to begin with, and the show had too many storylines for the general movie-goer. If there were any, I have no idea what they could realistically do. The episodes were largely interconnected, so a movie based on them should be as well I guess.
 
Generations was the worst Trek movie.

First Contact was great and I also love Insurrection, which has grown on me considerably.

Nemesis could have been so much better. And you could feel that while watching it. Fucking Baird.

And no, I wouldn't want a DS9 movie. Any story involving the DS9 cast on the big screen would have to be watered down so much in order to appeal to people who didn't follow that show's story arc that it wouldn't be DS9 anymore.

And I hope Berman gets eaten by evil squirrels.
 
I really like Generations when it came out. Over time I've become more critical of the movie. First Contact is my favourite and the other two are average at best.

I didn't mind the Defiant turning up for First Contact or the lack of DS9 in Nem and Generations. Who have liked Insurrection to involve the Dominion War directly. Other then that it was okay.

You could never get a DS9 movie to the big screen, it would have to be a straight to DVD deal. Issues to resolve in the movies - Bajor entering the Federation, Gamma Quadrant and the Dominion, Sisko returning from the wormhole, this all could be done in one movie though.
 
Generations is okay. I still say it's a bit too much of a wrench losing the Enterprise-D and Kirk in the same movie, and Kirk should have had a better death scene.

First Contact is great. Second only to The Wrath of Khan as my favourite Star Trek movie.

Insurrection is, again, okay. Since I'm being asked this from a Deep Space 9 fan's perspective, I do appreciate the small attempts to tie the movie in to the then on-going Dominion War storyline.

Nemesis is a bit of a tragedy. There's a good story in there somewhere, bursting to get out but it's buried under a mire of horrible, horrible editing, plot holes, stupid buggy chases and bad dialogue. If Jonathan Frakes or someone else who knows Star Trek had been allowed to direct this, it would have been a much better film.
 
Seriously, what were your reactions to GEN, FC, INS, and NEM, especially in comparison to the events, the writing, and the creativity involved in DS9?
While it seemed to me like the TNG films tended to suffer from "extended episode" syndrome, they still had their moments. First Contact is probably my favorite of the lot.

Did you also want there to be a DS9 film?
I would have liked to see an onscreen continuation of DS9, but a feature film wouldn't have worked. A TV movie, or even a miniseries, would have been better suited for DS9. But I really enjoy the post-finale books. They are a worthy continuation, so I'm not complaining.

A DS9 film under the production of Rick Berman?
Oh, no way!! :lol: Ira Behr or nobody.

What did you think of the overall disclusion of DS9 from the "TNG film-verse?" Was the brief appearance of the USS Defiant and the name dropping of the "Dominion War" enough for you?
I was never bugged by it. But I agree with what someone above said about Insurrection dealing with the Dominion War. With the Federation in the middle of a war, it would have been cool to see the flagship and her crew taking part in it. But I guess they wanted to keep that a strictly DS9 thing.

Did you consider the quality of the 4 TNG films to be on par or below that of the usual DS9 episode?
Hmm, I'd say DS9 was better.

Finally, if there were 4 DS9 feature films made, what would you want the overall plot to be for the 4 films. Would you want them to be standalone films or connected like the TOS feature films?
I would have wanted to see a story arc that continues on from the series. With the war over, we could see Bajor finally joining the Federation and what it would mean for that world. To keep things interesting, we can have a faction of Bajorans who are against it and will go to any length to see that Bajor remains independent. We can also see how things develop on postwar Cardassia as they try and rebuild their world with aid from other AQ species. Bajor and Cardassia negotiate peace. Sisko returning would of course be a big event too.
 
I saw them all in the theatre; I won't own any on DVD. I really thought they let down the series by trying to broaden appeal whilst ignoring character development -- even that made during the films with regards to Data's emotion chip.

FAIL.

Given the apparent inability to just put a decent Star Trek story on the screen without ticking a bunch of boxes that end up diluting the experience below the level of a televised two-parter, I cannot say I'm unhappy there was no DS9 film. I'd rather see a direct to DVD/download series on the cheap with great storytelling than a so-so larger budget feature film in the cinema.
 
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OK
Really Good
Sucked Hard and Long
Sucked (except for the new Romulan Warbirds-too cool)
 
I don't think a DS9 movie would have worked, but Insurrection would have been a lot better if it was an Enterprise-E in the Dominion War movie. Its a crying shame that they ignored the dominion war all together in those movies. I don't see how the flagship of the federation could have nothing to do with it.
 
^They didn't ignore the Dominion war. It's referenced in both Insurrection and Nemesis.

You've got to remember that they make movies for everyone, not just fans. You can't expect non-fans, or even people casually aware of TNG to know the ins and outs of what's going on in a weekly spin-off that they don't watch.

The most they ever got away with was the connected storyline through Star Trek's II, III and IV.

They raised Ira Steven Behr's ire with what they did do the Defiant in First Contact. They were planning to destroy it completely but Ira said he would not acknowledge it. Even with the "adrift but salvageable" line, Ira still refused to acknowledge the weeks in Spacedock the ship would have required.
 
Regarding the TNG movies:

GEN - Liked it okay, but more for the TOS characters (except for Kirk's death) than for the TNG characters.

FC - IMO, the best TNG film. I like this movie. In fact, it is really the only TNG film that I ever pull from my shelf and re-watch.

INS - boring...and rather incredible given that this was supposedly what the flagship crew was up to during the Dominion War. :rolleyes:

NEM - this movie sucks. I mean, it really, REALLY sucks. This movie sucks so hard that I still hear it sucking, 6 years later. Generating massive plot holes so large you could steer a starship thru them seems to have been the goal of this picture, in fact...because there is no other explanation for just how ghastly they were. I am extremely happy that DS9 was barely mentioned in this film as, from where I sit, the farther one is away from this movie, the better.

Regarding how I feel about the TOS movies in comparison? My feeling is that, with the exception of FC, all of the TNG movies are worse than all of the TOS movies. FC is probably my fourth favorite Trek movie (after TWOK, TSFS, and TVH)...but the rest of the TNG movies are at the bottom of the list and not as good as any of the remaining TOS movies.

As for a DS9 movie - I have never been in favor of it, because I know that my conditions would never be met. If the original writing staff of DS9 where given free reign to make a DS9 movie, without the intervention of B&B, I would have been okay with that. However, I have zero interest in a DS9 movie with anyone at the helm except for Ira Behr, Ron Moore, and the rest of the DS9 writers.

DS9 is a great show and any film generated from it would have to be really good in order to keep up with the high standard of the show. I would hate to see DS9 take a step down, or possibly even get ruined, by a craptacular movie.

IMO, the show that really needs a movie is VOY. I actually quite like that show...but Endgame totally ruined it. I would love to see a VOY movie give that show a better ending. And let's face it...the ending to VOY we have now is so terrible that any movie ending would be an improvement.
 
Generations - I liked it as a fan of TNG, but it didn't really feel like a theatrical movie, and more like a glorified episode of the series. I always thought Kirk should have died at the end of The Undiscovered Country. The one he got here wasn't really worthy of him.

First Contact - Loved it. One of those films that I could watch countless times and still love it. Some critics have pointed out logic and plot errors, but I don't care. Also liked seeing the Definat in action. ;)

Insurrection - Thought it was ok. I liked the humor and it had a fairly servicable trekkian message. I don't know why Marina Sirtis fell asleep during the screening - it's not that dull.

Nemesis - Didn't like this so much mainly because it was directed by somebody who didn't give two shits about Star Trek or continuity with the series. As the TNG casts final film, I don't think they got a particularly good send-off.
 
Generations - I enjoyed watching that movie, and I thought it had some great moments. The plot doesn't hold up on scrutiny though, but over all I think it's still a fun movie. I have never been a big fan of Shatner though, so the manner of his death never riled me as much.

First Contact - I adore this movie, and it was the first Star Trek movie I saw in theaters. I do wish could have had a bit more borg fighting with Starfleet (and I think they should have sent more than one ship) but that's a minor thing. I thought it was a extremely enjoyable action based adventure. The Borg were great villains, and I didn't mind the concept of the Borg Queen either. It is a shame that Voyager overused them later on though, but that doesn't affect my ability to enjoy this movie. I really enjoyed Cromwell's take on the character Zephram Cochrane and how intimidated he was at the idea of how he would be idolized in history and being shown as a real person with flaws.

I loved seeing the Defiant being used against the Borg and wish we could have seen a bit more of that. And I loved Worf's line "It's not a little ship!" I would have liked to have seen Miles O'Brien make an appearance with him, because I would have assumed he would have also been rescued along with Worf. I like First Contact's method of getting Worf into the story; it seemed more seamless than in the other movies.

Insurrection - This is a movie I enjoyed at the time, but subsequent viewings have left me much less enamoured with it. I don't think this plot was handled well and I find myself not sympathetic at all to the alien people who want to selfishly stay on this magical healing planet, which could benefit untold billions. They aren't even the original inhabitants of this world of I recall correctly! I didn't mind the humor or romance angle as much as some people did though.

Honestly, I think they should have done some sort of tie-in with the Dominion war that was going on at the same time. I can understand wanting to do a different, more light-hearted movie after "First Contact" but the Dominion with its changeling spies, cloned warriors, could have made just as equally good interesting. villians. The title "Insurrection" could have directly dealt with some of the morally grey issues that comes with war. DS9 did a good job addressing those issues, but I would have enjoyed seeing the TNG crew tackle them too.

Nemesis - I hated this movie. B4 (or was it B9?) was a stupid addition, and Data's death was done in an awful cheesy manner and obvious rip off of TWoK. I couldn't buy this actor as a clone of Picard, and I thought his motivations for wanting to destroy Earth were contrived and having Earth in danger is so, vastly, over used. Are moviegoers only able to care about an inhabited planet being destroyed if it's ours? I think it would be much more suspenseful for Shinzon to go after a non-Earth target, because then you would be able to make the audience really wonder if he was going to be able to pull it off or not. C'mon no one seriously thought that the producers would let Shinzon destroy EARTH? There was not one iota of suspense. Now if he were after a fictional world however (Romulus would have made infinitely more sense) there could be some room for doubt.

Also, I hated that instead of the cunning Romulans as villians we got this EMO clone of Picard and these ugly Remans that we had never seen before. I really was disappointed with what they did with Worf too. I liked the way DS9 ended with him becoming the Federation ambassador to the Klingon, and I HATED the way Nemesis undid that for no reason whatsoever. Why not just have Worf attending as a guest at the wedding of his old friends? He could still have been ambassador. There was no reason to undo DS9's ending. Worf did absolutely nothing worthwhile in this movie, so in my eyes they regressed the character for no reason, except to stuff him in a Starfleet uniform again.

Did you also want there to be a DS9 film? A DS9 film under the production of Rick Berman?
Yes, I would have liked for there to be, but realistically I don't think DS9 had the wide range appeal of the TNG crew (and they squandered theirs after First Contact). I wouldn't have been too happy with Rick Berman as the producer, but it would depend on who else was involve. Rick Berman alone doesn't make a bad movie.

What did you think of the overall disclusion of DS9 from the "TNG film-verse?" Was the brief appearance of the USS Defiant and the name dropping of the "Dominion War" enough for you?
I think it was a missed opportunity not to use the Dominion War to tie into DS9, which might have prompted more people to check out the TV series, and so over all I'm disappointed that the Dominion war was merely name-dropped. I was fine with the Defiant's use in First Contact, though I think it would have been fun to see the battle last a bit longer!

Did you consider the quality of the 4 TNG films to be on par or below that of the usual DS9 episode?
I don't really like making comparisons like this and I'm not sure what I'd consider the "usual" DS9 episode. I enjoyed most episodes of DS9, but they ranged the spectrum of horrible, to excellent.

Finally, if there were 4 DS9 feature films made, what would you want the overall plot to be for the 4 films. Would you want them to be standalone films or connected like the TOS feature films?
I'd like to see at least one film deal directly with the Dominion threat again, as I think the Dominion could translate well on the big screen as interesting movie villians. I'm not sure if I'd want all four movies to be about that though. A movie centering around Section 31 could possibly be compelling if done right. I think Cardassians are also great villains, and I would have liked to see them used as such in one of the movies too. I have no idea how well such movies would be received by the general public, but I think if well produced, directed, and acted with a great script and good advertisement and word of mouth, they would at least as decent a chance of making a good profit as any movie these days. We'll never know of course.

Also, please share your opinions on the 6 TOS feature films in comparison to that of DS9. Thanks.
I'm not sure how exactly to compare the 6 TOS movies with DS9. To me comparing movies to a TV Show is very difficult to do since the format is so different and the expectations are different as well. It's really like comparing apples an oranges to me. My favorite TOS movies are 2 and 4. I don't mind the rest at all except for 5 which I think is just plain bad and an embarrassment.
 
I like TNG allot but.

FC : The best TNG film by far.

GEN: OK, but missing something.

INS: Dull, very predictable and unecessary.

NEM: The worst. absolutely foul. Regurgetated TNG plot and revisionist. YUCK!
 
I like all the TOS movies. yes, even TFF.

TNG films: First Contact was enjoyable, Generations was okay with some good moments. the rest were subpar.

yes, a DS9 movie would've been... great.

oh well. can't have everything, can we?
 
I was thinking TPTB could have Kept the E-D around for the movies (Maybe a Big upgrade and/or refit), and destroying E-D necessary at the end of Nemesis. It would make better sense and not make the TNG crew look really incompetent. Just a thought.
 
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