Chakotay's Rank

[Red Ranger]

...and of course Janeway couldn't only have a token first officer.

So, she had 2 token officer instead
I'll agree with what you said about Harry, but it's also true that as time went on, he did mature into becoming a good solid officer. I see nothing wrong with Janeway promoting Kim to LtJg and putting him on par with other senior officers on Voyager during the 4th season!

Agreed! Harry deserved a promotion, and it would have been interesting to see him briefly outrank the cocky Tom Paris when Janeway demoted him to ensign from lt., j.g. Oh, another mistake they made in the first season was giving Tom a full lt.'s pips when it wasn't clear that was his actual rank. -- RR

 

[Guy Gardener]

I just remember how unimpressed young Janeway was with Harry in Shattered. She didn't even think of him as an acorn when Chuckles was talking about his contributions to building Astrometrics.

This is why I don't think that B'Elanna's rank is especially "real" ...Why was Harry given command of the bridge and the mission in Futures End, and why did Chakotay have the gall to replace all the Maquis badges with pips in Before and After, and why didn't Tuvok take on a Maquis for a First Officer to symbolically continue displaying unity and why did Barclay still think that Maquis still ran around in there terrorist attire if the Doctor had explained that the crews had genuinely integrated and Starfleet would ratify Janeways invented commissions... That, kind of got away from me.

Lets see... After season 3, why should Kim never be promoted?

He had secret illicit ongoing forbidden sex with an alien he'd been purposely told to keep his pants on around stepping back diplomatic relations with some space gypsies.
He invited a weapon of massdestruction home for tea.
He collaborated with the Hirogen.
He sentimentally annihilated 15 years of future history TWICE where the Federation was basically happy.
He kisses dead people and holographic cows.
He was duped into smuggling weapons which would tip the balance of power in a war the Federation and Janeway had no stake in.

And last but not least...

The Borg Queen thought he was her Boyfriend.

 

[Red Ranger]

I just remember how unimpressed young Janeway was with Harry in Shattered. She didn't even think of him as an acorn when Chuckles was talking about his contributions to building Astrometrics.

This is why I don't think that B'Elanna's rank is especially "real" ...Why was Harry given command of the bridge and the mission in Futures End, and why did Chakotay have the gall to replace all the Maquis badges with pips in Before and After, and why didn't Tuvok take on a Maquis for a First Officer to symbolically continue displaying unity and why did Barclay still think that Maquis still ran around in there terrorist attire if the Doctor had explained that the crews had genuinely integrated and Starfleet would ratify Janeways invented commissions... That, kind of got away from me.

Lets see... After season 3, why should Kim never be promoted?

He had secret illicit ongoing forbidden sex with an alien he'd been purposely told to keep his pants on around stepping back diplomatic relations with some space gypsies.
He invited a weapon of massdestruction home for tea.
He collaborated with the Hirogen.
He sentimentally annihilated 15 years of future history TWICE where the Federation was basically happy.
He kisses dead people and holographic cows.
He was duped into smuggling weapons which would tip the balance of power in a war the Federation and Janeway had no stake in.

And last but not least...

The Borg Queen thought he was her Boyfriend.

Guy:

If they presented some of what you said as coming from Janeway's lips, that might make sense. But as it is, we're left to infer that Janeway could be holding some or all of those reasons against Harry and not promote him. I would have liked to see Kim become bitter by the end of their sojourn in the Delta Quadrant and become more Maquis-like, even becoming insubordinate from time to time, as he transformed from a goody two-shoes into a bit of a malcontent.

Red Ranger

 

[Guy Gardener]

(Red, it's all about that sexy reset button. Voyager's producers had no interest in continuity.)

TNG: Lower Decks.

The first officer and the councilor are in charge of Promotions. The Captain probably has to sign off on what they put to paper and definitely has veto privileges... Janeway laughed at him in nightingale when he said that he might even be a lieutenant commander by then, by season seven, if he'd remained in the alpha Quadrant.

It was Chuckles and not Janeway he had to suck up to... And Chakotay might have still been pissed over some of the Maquis coverage in the Starfleet Academy "newspaper" which Harry had edited. How many dozen reporters do you think he managed and edited to put that "paper" to bed every night? Between what I have come to think of an editor of a great metropolitan publication from the last season of the Wire, and the middle seasons of the Gilmore Girls and Lou Grant... You would think that Harry was used to the hot spot and bossing around dozens of people simultaneously that the command track was nothing to write home about...

That little blonde girl from Warhead who said that the junior officers looked up to him for saving the day? Exactly how many "officers" had Janeway been lumbered with from the Academy for this 3 week mission that Kim was someone to look up to?

 

[Red Ranger]

(Red, it's all about that sexy reset button. Voyager's producers had no interest in continuity.)

TNG: Lower Decks.

The first officer and the councilor are in charge of Promotions. The Captain probably has to sign off on what they put to paper and definitely has veto privileges... Janeway laughed at him in nightingale when he said that he might even be a lieutenant commander by then, by season seven, if he'd remained in the alpha Quadrant.

It was Chuckles and not Janeway he had to suck up to... And Chakotay might have still been pissed over some of the Maquis coverage in the Starfleet Academy "newspaper" which Harry had edited. How many dozen reporters do you think he managed and edited to put that "paper" to bed every night? Between what I have come to think of an editor of a great metropolitan publication from the last season of the Wire, and the middle seasons of the Gilmore Girls and Lou Grant... You would think that Harry was used to the hot spot and bossing around dozens of people simultaneously that the command track was nothing to write home about...

That little blonde girl from Warhead who said that the junior officers looked up to him for saving the day? Exactly how many "officers" had Janeway been lumbered with from the Academy for this 3 week mission that Kim was someone to look up to?

Guy:

You really seem to know your Voyager minutiae. I completely forgot Harry worked on a Starfleet newspaper. Interesting.

But let's not forget: Reset buttons are . . . sexy!

RR

 

[DanCPA]

Guy, that's how Picard chose to run his ship... But given that we saw Janeway demote, and then promote, Paris... and we saw Tuvok get promoted, I highly doubt that Chakotay has much say in the matter

 

[kimc]

But let's not forget: Reset buttons are . . . sexy!

Especially if they come in red or a tasteful pinstripe.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Guy, that's how Picard chose to run his ship... But given that we saw Janeway demote, and then promote, Paris... and we saw Tuvok get promoted, I highly doubt that Chakotay has much say in the matter

It's a smaller ship, she has the ability to be much more hands on, but Tom was a special case. He defied Janeway. Got in her face. Tested her. Broke the Prime Directive. Yadda yadda blah blah but for the best most moral of reasons you can use torpedoes to solve a social problem the establishment is trying to ignore. If Janway had really wanted to Punish Tom, she should have handed him over to the culture he saved form extinction who was baying for his head (like she was legally bound to do.), but she didn't. A temporary demotion from a commission he shouldn't even have? Something smells rotten. Tom had been the department head in charge of all the other helmboys and helmgirls. That's administration and command track. When he got demoted, someone else got promoted into his job and was now Tom's boss who wouldn't have assumed in the least it was a temporary position. How crap were they that whoever this Replacement administrator was that they were pushed aside (probably losing their own pips, since position dictates title.) without consideration as soon as Janeway thought Tom had spent long enough in the dog box for appearances sake.

After Primefactors Tuvok's jacket should have been spiked(Was it to keep Chakotay in check? Or was it to make up for errors from the costume department?), but those two are the old boys club.

Both these cases were Janeway handing out kneejerk promotions and demotions arbitrarily. However to assume that she would periodically (3 month? 6 month?) and personally scribe up 140 individualized crew evaluations is a lions load of work for some one intent on making sure none of her crew is ever promoted since there was nowhere for them to be promoted to without people dying. Was there a system of crew evaluation and a promotion track in place based on merit and not merely vacancy?

Considering both these men committed horribly criminal acts and for their troubles, they were promoted, one must ask if there was some rusey confidence sting going on that while they were acting rebellious if they were not after all still following the secret orders of Kathryn Janeway who didn't want to dirty her hands with being naughty snapping the prime Directive over her knee?