Do you...believe?

[PhoenixIreland]

And isn't that a terrifying trend? As we drift further from the religious mindset the Arab world embraces it harder. I'm not saying religion is necessary-but we could reach a point where we no longer understand the mindset-an there in lies the danger. Somehow Trek's future dodged that bullet. I suspect education helped but there are still some very educated people in the world who turn themselves into human bombs for their beliefs, so who's to say if that really matters? I think the answers given that cover an increase in spirituality over organized religion hit closest to the Trek mark. Sadly, this is not the trend in our reality.

Thank god this thread didn't turn into a bitchfest I hate them I only go back to them every week or so.

You make a good point about understanding anothers mindset, I think that was why Sisko was so hard to accept the Bajoran faith.
The Arabs are as religious as they always have been, they will catch up to the global trend eventually.

This of course overlooks the wildcard, that some non-corporial being ala the prophets is actually hanging around sol and did intervene and is what we'd call god, and we discover it someday

 

[Deks]

I don't 'believe' in anything ... religion or otherwise.
That word doesn't even exist in my vocabulary nor am I perceiving things through the aspect of 'belief'.
For me, there is only having a theory on something and testing that theory, but I always keep in mind that it might either turn out to be correct or false ... and even then that the end result is subject to change.

People who claim people need something to 'believe' in are in error.
At least they are in my opinion.
I don't need the aspect of 'belief' in order to go through life for example.
And no, my life is not boring or deprived of imagination as a result.

As for Trek ...
It would be nice to have Gene take things into that kind of far extreme though like I did for myself.
That way you'd get to see people who are actually without religion or beliefs of any kind.
And yet they still pursue some aspects that might be considered for example 'spiritual', but they'd never call it that or perceive it in such a ridiculously antiquated fashion.
They pursue possibilities by testing if their personal theory is correct, often taking huge risks in order to do it, but still, even then they'd keep in mind a possibility the end result could be entirely different.

Alas, this show was made in the 20th/21st century for a large % of people who are part of that time frame and a good deal of US population IS in fact religious (unfortunately IMHO).

In any case ... from the way it was portrayed on screen, most of the Federation is supposed to be atheistic ... or at the very least humanity is.
I would imagine it's possible some religiously inclined individuals still exist ... but they'd be in a minority in comparison to today for example.
The only problem I have with it is they still retained 'people must believe in something' concept.

One other thing ... one of the posters stated that whenever science cannot explain something, religion would always exist.
Need I explain how laughable (to me) that sounds?
Is it so hard to state that something is simply 'not yet explainable' while not attributing 'supernatural' values to it in the process?
I personally find no need to attribute superstitious aspects to something I don't understand.
If it's unexplainable, fine ... I deal with it and try to learn about it.
What's the point in attributing supernatural to the unexplainable exactly?
Delusion is my answer.
But I guess it's easier for some people to live in ignorance and do whatever it takes to justify their personal theories instead of trying to perceive other possibilities.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[3D Master]

And isn't that a terrifying trend? As we drift further from the religious mindset the Arab world embraces it harder. I'm not saying religion is necessary-but we could reach a point where we no longer understand the mindset-an there in lies the danger. Somehow Trek's future dodged that bullet.

Did it? Ever heard of World War III?

 

[Sean Aaron]

Did it? Ever heard of World War III?

Yeah, that's the one thing, eh?

Personally I like Picard's anti-superstition speech in the Mintaka episode with the proto-vulcans (why proto-vulcans!!?!!?). Blind belief is the source of much conflict and the end of a lot of conversation. Organised religion is the devil.

 

[BigC]

I found it most edifying that when Picard was in the Nexus and supposedly in the place which would bring him the most joy. It was Christmas time.

 

[Deks]

I found it most edifying that when Picard was in the Nexus and supposedly in the place which would bring him the most joy. It was Christmas time.

I found that particular scene pointless.
Victorian setting ?
Holding on to traditions from centuries in the past when at the same time virtually 'preaching' to other species that religion and aspects connected to it are essentially outdated ?
I'd say the writers messed that up.
The scene would make more sense if Picard underwent certain changes during TNG that affected him in the fashion which would culminate to that scene in Generations.
But from what I saw in TNG, nothing really indicates it was so and as such was pointless.
Essentially you are telling me the family scene is what would made him joyous.
Possible but hardly anything that would be on the top of the list.
Picard never had regrets about the path he chose and he was not exactly a type of person who would settle down.
I attribute that pathetic scene in the Nexus to the writers catering to the 'family values' that a large portion of US apparently hold dear to.
Not that I have any issues with that aspect or people who cherish it ... it's just getting repetitive to see it in movies over and over again.

 

[Lynx]

As long as science cannot explain every single thing that happens or has ever happened, there will be religion.

I agree. If we look at Christianity, it has survived in about 2008 years. The religion has survived centuries of persecution including the Communists recent try to wipe out religion from the countries which turned Communist during the 20th century. Despite heavy persecution with believers shot or put into concentration camps in many of those countries, the religion survived and is now back and more popular than it was before. It's the same for other religions as well.

 

[BigC]

"Essentially you are telling me the family scene is what would made him joyous.
Possible but hardly anything that would be on the top of the list.
Picard never had regrets about the path he chose and he was not exactly a type of person who would settle down."

You are free to believe or not believe what you will. I think Picard was a very family oriented character. I do believe he regretted never having a family of his own, after all the one thing he immediately salvaged from his wrecked ready room was. His family photo album. And weather you agree or not I would wager there was more than one Christmas tree hidden away in the family quarters of the Enterprise come December.

 

[Joshua Howard]

I think that radical religion will be minimized to probably less than 20% --- but dogmatic atheism will disappear for the greater part as well.

People will stop feeling like they need to "disprove" religion (who do not believe in it) while others who may will soften their theological/philosophical views to incorporate a more evolved understanding. Religion will be respected more and observed for it's cultural/literary significance, while the traditional fears and more negative drives of it will be replaced.

Star Trek depicts a more moderate future world, but not a world destitute of religious structure or similar cultural framework.

 

[Deks]

"Essentially you are telling me the family scene is what would made him joyous.
Possible but hardly anything that would be on the top of the list.
Picard never had regrets about the path he chose and he was not exactly a type of person who would settle down."

You are free to believe or not believe what you will. I think Picard was a very family oriented character. I do believe he regretted never having a family of his own, after all the one thing he immediately salvaged from his wrecked ready room was. His family photo album. And weather you agree or not I would wager there was more than one Christmas tree hidden away in the family quarters of the Enterprise come December.

First of all I don't 'believe'.
Second ... despite what YOU may think, Picard was not portrayed as a family man (that much is evident throughout TNG for the most part).
As for the photo album he had ... it primarily contained images of his brother and his family.
But Picard was not a family man in a sense of settling down and having his own.
There was only 1 episode in TNG where the alien probe forced him to live out another lifetime, but even then it was basically a one time thing and he never showed interest in settling down.
He was powerless to change anything during that link, and for the good portion initially he fought against it and would have broken the connection if it was possible.
And one of the more so called 'precious' things that Picard held in possession was NOT his family album, but rather a statue from 'The chase' episode.
It was funny watching Generations and for writers to keep that particular rare (and only) piece of alien culture in the dust while retrieving the family album.
Excuse me but Generations was so out of character for Picard it wasn't even funny.
One other thing ... while it is possible that a Christmas tree was 'hidden away' in one of the family quarters on the Entrprise ... I find it unlikely.
Nothing of the sort was virtually mentioned on TNG and Gene himself would have snuffed out that particular idea.

Since the movie was intended for the broader audience, it was probably decided to take things into the direction of 'belief' and cater to the US audience which preferred such things on the screen.

7 years of TNG saying one thing while 1 movie saying something else with virtually no convincing buildup that would have the movie make sense in that retrospect.

 

[Krieg1981]

Religion is ridiculous, and hopefully extinct by the 24th century. I'm sure all the remnants of the Dark Ages will be gone by then!

 

[BigC]

"Essentially you are telling me the family scene is what would made him joyous.
Possible but hardly anything that would be on the top of the list.
Picard never had regrets about the path he chose and he was not exactly a type of person who would settle down."

You are free to believe or not believe what you will. I think Picard was a very family oriented character. I do believe he regretted never having a family of his own, after all the one thing he immediately salvaged from his wrecked ready room was. His family photo album. And weather you agree or not I would wager there was more than one Christmas tree hidden away in the family quarters of the Enterprise come December.

First of all I don't 'believe'.
Second ... despite what YOU may think, Picard was not portrayed as a family man (that much is evident throughout TNG for the most part).
As for the photo album he had ... it primarily contained images of his brother and his family.
But Picard was not a family man in a sense of settling down and having his own.
There was only 1 episode in TNG where the alien probe forced him to live out another lifetime, but even then it was basically a one time thing and he never showed interest in settling down.
He was powerless to change anything during that link, and for the good portion initially he fought against it and would have broken the connection if it was possible.
And one of the more so called 'precious' things that Picard held in possession was NOT his family album, but rather a statue from 'The chase' episode.
It was funny watching Generations and for writers to keep that particular rare (and only) piece of alien culture in the dust while retrieving the family album.
Excuse me but Generations was so out of character for Picard it wasn't even funny.
One other thing ... while it is possible that a Christmas tree was 'hidden away' in one of the family quarters on the Entrprise ... I find it unlikely.
Nothing of the sort was virtually mentioned on TNG and Gene himself would have snuffed out that particular idea.

Since the movie was intended for the broader audience, it was probably decided to take things into the direction of 'belief' and cater to the US audience which preferred such things on the screen.

7 years of TNG saying one thing while 1 movie saying something else with virtually no convincing buildup that would have the movie make sense in that retrospect.

So you say. Have a nice day.

 

[BigC]

I think that radical religion will be minimized to probably less than 20% --- but dogmatic atheism will disappear for the greater part as well.

People will stop feeling like they need to "disprove" religion (who do not believe in it) while others who may will soften their theological/philosophical views to incorporate a more evolved understanding. Religion will be respected more and observed for it's cultural/literary significance, while the traditional fears and more negative drives of it will be replaced.

Star Trek depicts a more moderate future world, but not a world destitute of religious structure or similar cultural framework.

I tend to agree. However I think just as there will always be the few very religious convinced of their piety. there will also be the minority very loud atheist screaming from the shadows.

 

[exalted one]

I assume that proven existence of aliens will be a huge blow to most religions of Earth. I mean, what would you need a God for, if there are Metrons, Trelane, Q, who are every inch as strong as your God, maybe even stronger? And you can actually meet them, they really ARE out there.

Not to mention that in 24th century, HUMANS THEMSELVES are gods already. Water into wine? Replicators. Raising the dead? Nanobots. Walking on water? Antigravity. Fiery swords? Phasers. Genesis? Ask Marcus.
In 24th century, it is hard not to be God.

 

[BigC]

I assume that proven existence of aliens will be a huge blow to most religions of Earth. I mean, what would you need a God for, if there are Metrons, Trelane, Q, who are every inch as strong as your God, maybe even stronger? And you can actually meet them, they really ARE out there.

Not to mention that in 24th century, HUMANS THEMSELVES are gods already. Water into wine? Replicators. Raising the dead? Nanobots. Walking on water? Antigravity. Fiery swords? Phasers. Genesis? Ask Marcus.
In 24th century, it is hard not to be God.

Indeed. One of my favorite quotes is. "To a primitive mind, any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic."