Why was the Genesis Project considered a failure?

[Gotham Central]

I'm not entirely sure why the Federation (or David Marcus) started declaring that Genesis did not work. Apparently phases I & II went off without a hitch. That should have atleast given some credibility to the science. I would argue that the Genesis Planet should not have disproven the technology either. For one thing it was never deployed in the way it was intended. Genesis was supposed to be deployed against a preexisting dead planet. The Genesis torpedo was detonated in the middle of a nebula with not a planet in sight. Thus Genesis, created a planet from the material in the nebula. Genesis was never meant to do that. Its hardly surprising that planet proved to be unstable.

At the very least, Genesis proved to be the ultimate weapon. Imagine if the Federation had been able to deploy that against the founders (who's home world happened to be a "rogue planet" sitting in a nebula). It might have been the Hiroshima type event that ended the war.

 

[Frodo Lives]

It might have been the Hiroshima type event that ended the war.

It also would have been no less than genocide, which we've already found out the Federation isn't willing to do - well, at least say they're unwilling to contemplate, as long as someone else does...

Whatever their stanch on it, I'm pretty sure everyone else will agree it's quite possibly one of the most reprehensible acts ever considered.

The Hiroshima bomb destroyed a city, what your describing would wipe all pre-existing life off the surface of a planet almost instantaneously. If that ain't genocide, then I'm a monkey's anus... which has no bearing on the point.

Anyway, back to the actual Genesis Device, not the weaponised version:

David seemed to think the whole process had failed, not because it had been used on a nebula instead of a planetoid, but because of his use of unstable proto-matter. Now, though he might not have had the full time to research his theory, if anyone had a chance of guessing at the cause of Genesis' breakdown I'd say it was him. And since we never heard of the Genesis device being deployed in its actually intended manner and succeeding, I'd say that was the reason why - David rushed the experiment, used the wrong technobabble to plug the holes, and the whole thing blew up in his face and no one had been able/or willing to try and get it right, because the destructive power of Genesis was too great, and could lead to it being used as a weapon (see point 1).

 

[Haytil]

I got the impression, from David's impression, that Phase I and II could not be extended to Phase III, based on limits of the technology and science. Thus, proto-matter was needed to solve the problem - which ended up being a hack solution that collapsed in on itself.

So it seemed like proto-matter was only involved in Phase III, and that David was convinced (probably from extensive experimentation) that there was no other way to deploy the Genesis Effect on a large, planetary scale.

 

[-Brett-]

At the very least, Genesis proved to be the ultimate weapon. Imagine if the Federation had been able to deploy that against the founders (who's home world happened to be a "rogue planet" sitting in a nebula). It might have been the Hiroshima type event that ended the war.

First of all, it's potential as a weapon is probably the reason it was discontinued. It may have been scientifically sound (at least in the context of Star Trek "science") but too politically volatile to continue.

Second, the Founders moved to a new homeworld after the events of "The Die is Cast". The Federation wasn't at war with them at the time. They never found out the location of the new homeworld until the very end of the series.

 

[Gotham Central]

It might have been the Hiroshima type event that ended the war.

It also would have been no less than genocide, which we've already found out the Federation isn't willing to do - well, at least say they're unwilling to contemplate, as long as someone else does...

Whatever their stanch on it, I'm pretty sure everyone else will agree it's quite possibly one of the most reprehensible acts ever considered.

The Hiroshima bomb destroyed a city, what your describing would wipe all pre-existing life off the surface of a planet almost instantaneously. If that ain't genocide, then I'm a monkey's anus... which has no bearing on the point.

Anyway, back to the actual Genesis Device, not the weaponised version:

David seemed to think the whole process had failed, not because it had been used on a nebula instead of a planetoid, but because of his use of unstable proto-matter. Now, though he might not have had the full time to research his theory, if anyone had a chance of guessing at the cause of Genesis' breakdown I'd say it was him. And since we never heard of the Genesis device being deployed in its actually intended manner and succeeding, I'd say that was the reason why - David rushed the experiment, used the wrong technobabble to plug the holes, and the whole thing blew up in his face and no one had been able/or willing to try and get it right, because the destructive power of Genesis was too great, and could lead to it being used as a weapon (see point 1).

Not to put too fine a point on the matter, but the Federation was perfectly willing to exterminate ALL of the founders. They gave them a plague with the understanding that it would kill them all....and then hampered Bashir's effort to find a cure. The Federation is certainly not above genocide when seriously threatened.


That said, one would wonder why he did not bother testing the devidce, as intended, on an unihabited world. That would only have cost them the existance of a dead world. I wonder what happened to the 2nd phase technology since it might have proven useful in terraforming.

 

[Plecostomus]

While Phase Three was a failure, the ramifications of Phase One and Two would ripple through the technology-base of the Federation.

Phase one lead to the development of a practical replicator. While it wasn't possible to replicate a planet due to energy-level requirements, a safe stable controlled pattern-wave allows one to convert bulk-mater into tea... earl-gray... hot.

Further research into the technology lead to vast improvements in transporter safety, range, and load capacity.




---
Ok, so that's totally non-canon but it's an interesting possible spin on the project.

 

[Plecostomus]

It might have been the Hiroshima type event that ended the war.

That said, one would wonder why he did not bother testing the devidce, as intended, on an unihabited world. That would only have cost them the existance of a dead world.

That is what the Reliant was doing at the beginning of Star Trek II. I'm sorry but you seem to have missed a huge huge plot point here. The Reliant went to Ceti Alpha because they thought it was a dead planet, they read an energy signal, and went down to see what it was. That's how they stumbled upon Kahn. Hilarity ensues.

 

[Gotham Central]

At the very least, Genesis proved to be the ultimate weapon. Imagine if the Federation had been able to deploy that against the founders (who's home world happened to be a "rogue planet" sitting in a nebula). It might have been the Hiroshima type event that ended the war.

First of all, it's potential as a weapon is probably the reason it was discontinued. It may have been scientifically sound (at least in the context of Star Trek "science") but too politically volatile to continue.

Second, the Founders moved to a new homeworld after the events of "The Die is Cast". The Federation wasn't at war with them at the time. They never found out the location of the new homeworld until the very end of the series.

It might have made for an interesting arms race scenario had they explored Genesis as a genie out of the bottle situation. Especially since the Klingons were overly interested in the technology for that very reason.

Imagine a Genesis Cold War. Its doctrine could be called MADR "Madder" Mutually Assured Destruction and Rebirth

 

[Gotham Central]

That said, one would wonder why he did not bother testing the devidce, as intended, on an unihabited world. That would only have cost them the existance of a dead world.

That is what the Reliant was doing at the beginning of Star Trek II. I'm sorry but you seem to have missed a huge huge plot point here. The Reliant went to Ceti Alpha because they thought it was a dead planet, they read an energy signal, and went down to see what it was. That's how they stumbled upon Kahn. Hilarity ensues.

Umm...I know that that was the initial plan, Kahn got in the way of the original test. My point was that the Federation might have wanted to conduct a proper test to know for certain whether it really worked or not.

 

[UssGlenn]

It's possible that Genesis would have worked as intended in Phase III and scientists who actually had time to research it knew it. However because of the resulting controversy they used its apparent failure as a convenient way to kill the project.

 

[Unicron]

I've often wondered why Kirk thought it necessary to make his own duplicate tape of how Genesis works, which the Klingons stole in TSFS. Obviously the real reason was as a plot device, but it presumably would have had the same top security access (only Kirk, an admiral, apparently had the clearance to access the original version in TWOK), so why didn't the Klingons just nab the Carol version?

 

[C.E. Evans]

IMO, Genesis was a failure because it was really didn't work as originally proposed.

David Marcus cheated by using protomatter, and that pretty much doomed the entire Project right then and there. Because of the unstable properties of protomatter, there was no way to predict what really would happen once the Genesis device was activated. Marcus took a calculated risk that everything would work and it seemed at first that the risk paid off due to the initially encouraging results from the early Phases I and II--but Phase III was a disaster. While the Genesis Planet was created out of less than ideal conditions, the overall principle was essentially the same--the creation of an M-Class planet from raw stellar material (in this case, the Mutara Nebula rather than a preexisting lifeless planet). The protomatter factor, however, came into play very early and the planet destabilized fairly quickly and ripped itself to pieces. It's plausible that Phases I and II also destablized when the protomatter factor kicked in, but at much slower rates.

In the end, all Genesis succeeded in doing was creating a new type of doomsday weapon.

Just my take on it, though...

 

[Gotham Central]

IMO, Genesis was a failure because it was really didn't work as originally proposed.

David Marcus cheated by using protomatter, and that pretty much doomed the entire Project right then and there. Because of the unstable properties of protomatter, there was no way to predict what really would happen once the Genesis device was activated. Marcus took a calculated risk that everything would work and it seemed at first that the risk paid off due to the initially encouraging results from the early Phases I and II--but Phase III was a disaster. While the Genesis Planet was created out of less than ideal conditions, the overall principle was essentially the same--the creation of an M-Class planet from raw stellar material (in this case, the Mutara Nebula rather than a preexisting lifeless planet). The protomatter factor, however, came into play very early and the planet destabilized fairly quickly and ripped itself to pieces. It's plausible that Phases I and II also destablized when the protomatter factor kicked in, but at much slower rates.

In the end, all Genesis succeeded in doing was creating a new type of doomsday weapon.

Just my take on it, though...

My justification for the nebula being the source of the problem is that I always assumed that the basic purpose of the Genesis device was to readjust the atmosphere and crust of a lifeless world. Thus it would have been unlikely for a naturally stable world to tear itself appart. I figure that the need to convert a nebula into a solid planet was probably more work than the device was intended for. It was the unstable interior of the planet that ultimately doomed the project.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It presumably would have had the same top security access (only Kirk, an admiral, apparently had the clearance to access the original version in TWOK), so why didn't the Klingons just nab the Carol version?

The Klingons used the Kirk-narrated version to make him look guiltier. The Ambassador mentions how the weapon was created by Kirk's son, and deployed by the Admiral himself.

 

[Anwar]

I still have to wonder where the Klingon Ambassador got that data from (Kruge didn't seem to have time to transmit it) and where they got the ENT Destruction footage from.

 

[FordSVT]

I still have to wonder where the Klingon Ambassador got that data from (Kruge didn't seem to have time to transmit it) and where they got the ENT Destruction footage from.

HBO.

If there's one thing about technology that has never changed, it's the once a workable idea takes hold, there's always someone around who's willing to run with it, even past failure. The possibility of using atomic science to build bombs didn't stop people from developing it, and this is a technology that could be used to terraform entire worlds in minutes and days. Far too valuable to just let go.

I like to think that the Genesis project is still being worked on in secret. It's simply too valuable a technology. And let's get this straight: they wouldn't have abandoned all work on it just because it can be used as a weapon of mass destruction. This is a universe where a single ship can lay waste to a continent, a small fleet can reduce the crust of an entire world to molten slag. A single missile can carry a cargo that will cause stars to go nova. Hell, they could just tow a couple of asteroids up to near light speed and throw them at a planet; game over. Genesis' potential as a weapon is there, but it would be just one more way to kill a planet amongst dozens.

Mass driver weapons are the one thing we've never seen in Trek that we should have, at least by enemy races.

 

[Cyke101]

Not to put too fine a point on the matter, but the Federation was perfectly willing to exterminate ALL of the founders. They gave them a plague with the understanding that it would kill them all....and then hampered Bashir's effort to find a cure. The Federation is certainly not above genocide when seriously threatened.


That said, one would wonder why he did not bother testing the devidce, as intended, on an unihabited world. That would only have cost them the existance of a dead world. I wonder what happened to the 2nd phase technology since it might have proven useful in terraforming.

Difference, though. That was Section 31, NOT the Federation. If most of the Federation found out what Section 31 was doing, they'd be disbanded in a heartbeat. They keep the important people out of the loop.

 

[Basill]

It presumably would have had the same top security access (only Kirk, an admiral, apparently had the clearance to access the original version in TWOK), so why didn't the Klingons just nab the Carol version?

The Klingons used the Kirk-narrated version to make him look guiltier. The Ambassador mentions how the weapon was created by Kirk's son, and deployed by the Admiral himself.

Yeah, that is a good interpretation. I never though about it like that, but as far as creative plot devices that works very well. Also, the Carol version was "pre-Genesis" and obviously had to be updated. With Starfleet clamping down on the situation, Kirk was the obvious one to make the update, and of course as Therin pointed out, it points the finger right at Kirk.

One major practical reason however, was that Bibi Besch wasn't in the film, and would have had to be paid royalties for any appearance. They clipped her out of the Spock funeral flashback as well. I mean, it could have been a creative decision as to not confuse new viewers that hadn't seen TWOK (Kirstie Alley was also in some of those Carol funeral shots and obviously had to be chucked; too bad, good dialog) but I am sure there was some "bean-counter suit" thinking going on there as well.

 

[Chaos Descending]

That is what the Reliant was doing at the beginning of Star Trek II. I'm sorry but you seem to have missed a huge huge plot point here. The Reliant went to Ceti Alpha because they thought it was a dead planet, they read an energy signal, and went down to see what it was. That's how they stumbled upon Kahn. Hilarity ensues.

I think you missed the point. The Genesis device was NEVER ACTUALLY TESTED. It doesn't matter what Reliant's intentions were.

 

[cultcross]

To me the only reason Genesis was a 'failure' is that it was far too powerful a weapon to leave in the Trek universe - Like Soran's torpedo, it had unbelievable destructive capability, and would have fundamentally changed the political and military landscape of the galaxy. Probably not something the writers wanted to explore or tie down any future Trek's with.
In universe, I suppose it can be assumed that later work on Genesis if any happened, also met with failure. Though the cave scale terraforming may well be in standard use by the 24th century.