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Why was the Genesis Project considered a failure?

Another point I'd like to raise, although it's not canon. According to the novelized version of TSFS, not only did the Genesis planet fail because of protomatter, but the Genesis Cave, the internal environment of the planetoid near Space Station Regula One, also began breaking down, but not before the plants began to mutate wildly.

In fact, there's a part where Saavik and David are checking out the Genesis Cave and they get contact highs from a narcotic air-borne substance in the vines. When Saavik examines the vines, she tells Davis that the substance in them is a potent psychonarcotic. He says he just designed them so you could brew tea from the leaves, but he notices the mutation is similar to the structure of caffeine, as I recall.

The Genesis Cave was also created, according to the novel, with protomatter. Hence, the flaw in the project was that using protomatter rendered the project a failure. I think David says using it was "the only way to solve certain problems."

Also, as others pointed out, the destructive capabiliites of the device as a weapon made it too dangerous to continue work. David himself voices this concern in TWOK when says it could be "perverted into a dreadful weapon." What if the secret of the torpedo alone got into the hands of the Klingons or the Romulans? The ability to destroy a planet with one torpedo, whether or not leaving a viable biosphere, would be a frightful weapon, making our H-bombs tinker toys in comparison.

I always saw Genesis used as a weapon reminiscent of the Neutron Bomb, which kills people but leaves buildings intact.

Red Ranger
 
IMO, Genesis was a failure because it was really didn't work as originally proposed.

David Marcus cheated by using protomatter, and that pretty much doomed the entire Project right then and there. Because of the unstable properties of protomatter, there was no way to predict what really would happen once the Genesis device was activated. Marcus took a calculated risk that everything would work and it seemed at first that the risk paid off due to the initially encouraging results from the early Phases I and II--but Phase III was a disaster. While the Genesis Planet was created out of less than ideal conditions, the overall principle was essentially the same--the creation of an M-Class planet from raw stellar material (in this case, the Mutara Nebula rather than a preexisting lifeless planet). The protomatter factor, however, came into play very early and the planet destabilized fairly quickly and ripped itself to pieces. It's plausible that Phases I and II also destablized when the protomatter factor kicked in, but at much slower rates.

In the end, all Genesis succeeded in doing was creating a new type of doomsday weapon.

Just my take on it, though...


My justification for the nebula being the source of the problem is that I always assumed that the basic purpose of the Genesis device was to readjust the atmosphere and crust of a lifeless world. Thus it would have been unlikely for a naturally stable world to tear itself appart. I figure that the need to convert a nebula into a solid planet was probably more work than the device was intended for. It was the unstable interior of the planet that ultimately doomed the project.

I think it was the protomatter that Marcus finally admitted to using in the project. Even if they had used an actual planet for Phase III, the newly formed ecosystems would have broken down in the same length of time and rendered the planet lifeless all the same.
 
The explanation the Genesis device was abandoned in terms of research due to it's potential to be used as an 'incredibly powerful weapon of mass destruction' is ludicrous.
As another poster already stated, the Trek universe was advanced enough by the time of the 23rd century when 1 star ship was able to lay waste to a planet in a very short amount of time and probably destroy the planet itself with proper methods.
By the time of 24th century, 1 torpedo sized casing would be able to destroy a small planet, force a destruction of a Star, etc ...
And their technologies will only advance as time goes by.

How many experimental technologies on screen were pulled due to their 'destructive potential'?
I think too many.
The excuse is poor as the only way to ensure everyones safety would be to completely abandon warp drive, star ships and everyone sits on their planets in caves with no access to technology.
Otherwise anyone could use even a Nova class ship in the 24th century to destroy a planet entirely.

It has been some time since I saw TWOK ... but there were multiple factors to take into consideration that hindered the testing of Genesis.
For one thing, the final phase was never executed.
After it was discovered that David used proto-matter (which he did solely to speed up the process and patch things up) they could have eliminated the proto-matter variable and just continue research to ultimately find a solution that would work properly.
But for the drama's sake of course and the stupid remark 'it's too dangerous', it was abandoned.

For a show/movies that were supposed to be perceived as 'cerebral', at times I really have to question the intelligence and just how much thought was put into it before the final product made it on screen.
 
IMO, Genesis was a failure because it was really didn't work as originally proposed.

David Marcus cheated by using protomatter, and that pretty much doomed the entire Project right then and there. Because of the unstable properties of protomatter, there was no way to predict what really would happen once the Genesis device was activated. Marcus took a calculated risk that everything would work and it seemed at first that the risk paid off due to the initially encouraging results from the early Phases I and II--but Phase III was a disaster. While the Genesis Planet was created out of less than ideal conditions, the overall principle was essentially the same--the creation of an M-Class planet from raw stellar material (in this case, the Mutara Nebula rather than a preexisting lifeless planet). The protomatter factor, however, came into play very early and the planet destabilized fairly quickly and ripped itself to pieces. It's plausible that Phases I and II also destablized when the protomatter factor kicked in, but at much slower rates.

In the end, all Genesis succeeded in doing was creating a new type of doomsday weapon.

Just my take on it, though...


My justification for the nebula being the source of the problem is that I always assumed that the basic purpose of the Genesis device was to readjust the atmosphere and crust of a lifeless world. Thus it would have been unlikely for a naturally stable world to tear itself appart. I figure that the need to convert a nebula into a solid planet was probably more work than the device was intended for. It was the unstable interior of the planet that ultimately doomed the project.

I think it was the protomatter that Marcus finally admitted to using in the project. Even if they had used an actual planet for Phase III, the newly formed ecosystems would have broken down in the same length of time and rendered the planet lifeless all the same.


I can believe that the ecosystems might have broken down eventually, but unfortunately that's not what was shown on screen. The planet retained a breathable atmosphere and viable ecosystems right up until the end. It was destroyed by gelogical activity. The planet literally ripped itself appart.
 
Another point I'd like to raise, although it's not canon. According to the novelized version of TSFS, not only did the Genesis planet fail because of protomatter, but the Genesis Cave, the internal environment of the planetoid near Space Station Regula One, also began breaking down, but not before the plants began to mutate wildly.

In fact, there's a part where Saavik and David are checking out the Genesis Cave and they get contact highs from a narcotic air-borne substance in the vines. When Saavik examines the vines, she tells Davis that the substance in them is a potent psychonarcotic. He says he just designed them so you could brew tea from the leaves, but he notices the mutation is similar to the structure of caffeine, as I recall.

The Genesis Cave was also created, according to the novel, with protomatter. Hence, the flaw in the project was that using protomatter rendered the project a failure. I think David says using it was "the only way to solve certain problems."

Also, as others pointed out, the destructive capabiliites of the device as a weapon made it too dangerous to continue work. David himself voices this concern in TWOK when says it could be "perverted into a dreadful weapon." What if the secret of the torpedo alone got into the hands of the Klingons or the Romulans? The ability to destroy a planet with one torpedo, whether or not leaving a viable biosphere, would be a frightful weapon, making our H-bombs tinker toys in comparison.

I always saw Genesis used as a weapon reminiscent of the Neutron Bomb, which kills people but leaves buildings intact.

Red Ranger


The fate of the Genesis cave is interesting. Had they shown a scene like that in the film it would have painted a more complete picture of the project's failure.
 
Not to put too fine a point on the matter, but the Federation was perfectly willing to exterminate ALL of the founders. They gave them a plague with the understanding that it would kill them all....and then hampered Bashir's effort to find a cure. The Federation is certainly not above genocide when seriously threatened.


That said, one would wonder why he did not bother testing the devidce, as intended, on an unihabited world. That would only have cost them the existance of a dead world. I wonder what happened to the 2nd phase technology since it might have proven useful in terraforming.

Difference, though. That was Section 31, NOT the Federation. If most of the Federation found out what Section 31 was doing, they'd be disbanded in a heartbeat. They keep the important people out of the loop.


The Federation also approved Picard's plan to use the fractal code to destroy the Borg. If I remember correctly they were even upset that he decided not to use the program and chastised him for not destroying the Borg when he had the chance.
 
Not to put too fine a point on the matter, but the Federation was perfectly willing to exterminate ALL of the founders. They gave them a plague with the understanding that it would kill them all....and then hampered Bashir's effort to find a cure. The Federation is certainly not above genocide when seriously threatened.


That said, one would wonder why he did not bother testing the devidce, as intended, on an unihabited world. That would only have cost them the existance of a dead world. I wonder what happened to the 2nd phase technology since it might have proven useful in terraforming.

Difference, though. That was Section 31, NOT the Federation. If most of the Federation found out what Section 31 was doing, they'd be disbanded in a heartbeat. They keep the important people out of the loop.

Or giving a nice big medal and congratulated for keeping the Federation safe and doing the dirty work other people didn't want to do but had to be done. Or "officially" disbanded while quietly reshuffled to form a new agency, with a even bigger chip on its shoulder.
 
It's possible that Genesis would have worked as intended in Phase III and scientists who actually had time to research it knew it. However because of the resulting controversy they used its apparent failure as a convenient way to kill the project.


You know I've always wondered just how long it took for the Enterprise to return to Earth after the events of TWOK. I mean, how exactly did Genesis become so controversial so fast. The only people who knew with certainty that the Genesis Planet even existed was the Enterprise and Reliant crews and any survivors of Regula 1. I'm sure Admiral Kirk briefed Starfleet Command (which is why the Grissom was sent to study the planet) but who told everyone else (especially the Klingons)?
 
I've often wondered if Carol had any knowledge of David's use of Protomatter in the project. David states "I used protomatter in the Genesis matrix." (emphasis mine) If Carol was oblivious, how did he manage to manipulate things so well without her knowledge?

As for why it was considered a failure... Galactic politics aside, I've always blamed it on a combination of the premature and improper nebula testbed and the protomatter. I've also always preferred the notion that the cave remained stable, proving that some elements of the project were successful. But since it was never heard of again, I guess we may never know in terms of canon.
 
Not to put too fine a point on the matter, but the Federation was perfectly willing to exterminate ALL of the founders. They gave them a plague with the understanding that it would kill them all....and then hampered Bashir's effort to find a cure. The Federation is certainly not above genocide when seriously threatened.


That said, one would wonder why he did not bother testing the devidce, as intended, on an unihabited world. That would only have cost them the existance of a dead world. I wonder what happened to the 2nd phase technology since it might have proven useful in terraforming.

Difference, though. That was Section 31, NOT the Federation. If most of the Federation found out what Section 31 was doing, they'd be disbanded in a heartbeat. They keep the important people out of the loop.


The Federation also approved Picard's plan to use the fractal code to destroy the Borg. If I remember correctly they were even upset that he decided not to use the program and chastised him for not destroying the Borg when he had the chance.


I think there may have been a different kind of mentality toward the Borg than most other races. They viewed them as unfeeling and unreasonable, a robotic virus or insect parallel with massive military power they could not negotiate with and who would wipe them out or assimilate them with absolute certainty. At the time, it was not a matter of "if" but "when" they would come in force to finish the job, and they had absolutely no way of stopping them. This is not the same as the Klingons or the Romulans, who for the most part weren't interested in genocide, only conquest and subjugation of the Federation. They were beings who could reason and had something to lose, and in war the Federation was an even or better match for either power.
 
I think there may have been a different kind of mentality toward the Borg than most other races. They viewed them as unfeeling and unreasonable, a robotic virus or insect parallel with massive military power they could not negotiate with and who would wipe them out or assimilate them with absolute certainty. At the time, it was not a matter of "if" but "when" they would come in force to finish the job, and they had absolutely no way of stopping them. This is not the same as the Klingons or the Romulans, who for the most part weren't interested in genocide, only conquest and subjugation of the Federation. They were beings who could reason and had something to lose, and in war the Federation was an even or better match for either power.

Yep. I'd also like to point out that when the crew came up with the Anti-Borg program, that was back when the Borg as a whole were still considered by everyone (writers, producers, viewers, etc) to be nigh unstoppable. First Contact came along and changed all that, and then Voyager basically ran with it at warp speed.
 
Also, there is the other side of the "Hugh Virus" argument to consider: Whether it would've worked or not. Seeing what happened in "Descent" would imply that the fractal virus would NOT have worked. It would've disabled Hugh's Cube but that's it.

At the time of "I, Borg" the Borg did not see the Feds as a real threat worthy of a true attack (multiple Cubes), and if the Virus didn't work but caused enough damage they may have changed their views of the Federation and sent a REAL attack force to wipe them out for real.

So in that sense, Picard did the right thing not using the virus.
 
My justification for the nebula being the source of the problem is that I always assumed that the basic purpose of the Genesis device was to readjust the atmosphere and crust of a lifeless world. Thus it would have been unlikely for a naturally stable world to tear itself appart. I figure that the need to convert a nebula into a solid planet was probably more work than the device was intended for. It was the unstable interior of the planet that ultimately doomed the project.

I think it was the protomatter that Marcus finally admitted to using in the project. Even if they had used an actual planet for Phase III, the newly formed ecosystems would have broken down in the same length of time and rendered the planet lifeless all the same.


I can believe that the ecosystems might have broken down eventually, but unfortunately that's not what was shown on screen. The planet retained a breathable atmosphere and viable ecosystems right up until the end. It was destroyed by gelogical activity. The planet literally ripped itself appart.
Actually, the ecosystems started breaking down first and the geological disruptions came later. When the Grissom was taking scans of different parts of the planet, they noticed that one area was rapidly losing temperature and changing from a region with sub-tropical vegetation into a frozen wasteland. That was likely the first indication that the planet was destabilizing, but the Grissom crew weren't aware of it at the time.

As I said earlier, the Genesis Planet was created under less than ideal conditions, but protomatter, with its reported unstable properties, can be looked at as the main reason for its demise...
 
The Genesis torpedo was detonated in the middle of a nebula with not a planet in sight. Thus Genesis, created a planet from the material in the nebula. Genesis was never meant to do that.

Umm, sure there was a planet in sight when the Genesis device was detonated. As a matter of fact, the Enterprise had just departed the spherical, high-gravity asteroid Regula at a brisk walking pace a few minutes earlier. Odds are, this is exactly what the Genesis device transformed into the Genesis planet.

After all, as said, Genesis was never meant to transform a nebula. And Genesis wasn't supposed to be a flexible technology: as the Marcuses said, not a single byte more could be crammed into the programming (or some other aspect of the device that uses bytes?), so there probably wasn't an extra subroutine there for doing unexpected things.

So the Genesis detonation and the Genesis planet destruction would also conveniently erase the evidence from the original Genesis cave experiment...

It's also possible that there were other planets in the system for the device to act on. It would depend on our interpretation of the terminology. It seems that "Regula One" (as Kirk and Uhura both say) was the name of the laboratory, and "Regula" (as Spock once says) was the name of the asteroid. Systematically, we could argue that Regula was the star, and the star's planets and other solid satellites would be labeled Regula I through ??? - so if the 'roid is just plain "Regula" even according to the anal-retentively accurate Spock, then there might not exist a Regula II. But then again, we don't have to assume that the naming was systematic, not even when this seemed to be an insignificant system where nobody would have a specific interest for inventing "proper names" and other fancy exceptions.

Timo Saloniemi
 
With regards to using a Genesis device on the Founder's Homeworld, what would be the point ?

A single Constitution-class Starship can devastate the surface of a planet on it's own.
If you can get close enough to the Founder's Homeworld without being blown to bits by the Jem'Hadar then you've already gotten far enough.

Second, and more importantly, blowing up the Founder's Homeworld doesn't get rid of the Jem'Hadar. Their supply of Ketracel White would soon run out but before then, as stated in "The Die is Cast", the entire race of possibly billions would come screaming out of the wormhole looking for revenge and they won't care who their targets are

Imagine fighting a race who don't care if they die as long as you do too, have numerical, tactical and technological superiority over you and don't care about any kind of long term strategic objective. The deaths would be in the billions.
 
A single Constitution-class Starship can devastate the surface of a planet on it's own.

This is why I think pursuing Genesis as a weapon wouldn't have gone ahead - the Federation and similar power races can do large scale conventional destruction if they want to, we've seen that. The thing that made Genesis different was the abiltiy to wipe a surface clean of its entire ecosystem and inhabitants, and leave a functioning, clean and safe world behind for new colonists. Essentially, it was a method of assimilation, in the Borg sense. You could imagine a Romulan navigator saying 'population: 9 billion. All human.'
Because this crucial aspect of Genesis relied on protomatter, its use, even as a weapon, was not worth pursuing - conventional explosives could manage the ultimate result of Genesis without the extensive research and the controversy of its existence.
 
At the very least, Genesis proved to be the ultimate weapon. Imagine if the Federation had been able to deploy that against the founders (who's home world happened to be a "rogue planet" sitting in a nebula). It might have been the Hiroshima type event that ended the war.
Well, actually, if they were able to kill all the founders at a stroke there would be a problem in that there'd be nobody left to negotiate peace. Perhaps the Dominion would give up at that, although since it seems able to run for long stretches with minimal Founder supervision there's fair reason to think that lopping off the `head' means there'd never be peace with the Dominion, not till every last military outpost in it was destroyed.

The Hiroshima analogy also points out something of what makes Genesis strategically problematic: under what circumstances are you willing to use it? The United States has been wrestling with the problem of what circumstances justify using the atomic (and nuclear) bombs for sixty years now and really has never found a fully satisfying answer. The problem's likely to remain as ever-more-superpowered weapons become available.

And note that the peaceful uses of atomic weapons -- such as, say, digging really big tunnels quickly -- have never caught on, mostly because they're too big for all but a few projects that are too big to be urgently needed.
 
The Genesis torpedo was detonated in the middle of a nebula with not a planet in sight. Thus Genesis, created a planet from the material in the nebula. Genesis was never meant to do that.
Umm, sure there was a planet in sight when the Genesis device was detonated. As a matter of fact, the Enterprise had just departed the spherical, high-gravity asteroid Regula at a brisk walking pace a few minutes earlier. Odds are, this is exactly what the Genesis device transformed into the Genesis planet.

After all, as said, Genesis was never meant to transform a nebula. And Genesis wasn't supposed to be a flexible technology: as the Marcuses said, not a single byte more could be crammed into the programming (or some other aspect of the device that uses bytes?), so there probably wasn't an extra subroutine there for doing unexpected things.

So the Genesis detonation and the Genesis planet destruction would also conveniently erase the evidence from the original Genesis cave experiment...

It's also possible that there were other planets in the system for the device to act on. It would depend on our interpretation of the terminology. It seems that "Regula One" (as Kirk and Uhura both say) was the name of the laboratory, and "Regula" (as Spock once says) was the name of the asteroid. Systematically, we could argue that Regula was the star, and the star's planets and other solid satellites would be labeled Regula I through ??? - so if the 'roid is just plain "Regula" even according to the anal-retentively accurate Spock, then there might not exist a Regula II. But then again, we don't have to assume that the naming was systematic, not even when this seemed to be an insignificant system where nobody would have a specific interest for inventing "proper names" and other fancy exceptions.

Timo Saloniemi


The astronomical science of TWOK is shaky at best, but does allow for several different interpretations. Genesis may or may not have been formed directly from the Mutara Nebula, and could in fact have been a transformed Regula-I, as Timo suggests, but the transformation of the nebula itself cannot be ignored.

I suspect that there probably was a parent star named "Regula," while the planetoid was called Regula-I, leaving the station with the designation Space Lab-Regula I, as it was mostly referred to throughout the film especially during hailing communications. Spock's more relaxed statement, "Regula is Class-D" simply may have been early evidence of the mellowing-out the character would eventually entertain. It wouldn't be the first time a Trek character ignored the standard systematic formula "Star name + ordered number." It was the planet Kirk was pointing at, and Spock spoke of it in that context. Carol Marcus's response to the Reliant's Hail, "This is Regula-One, go ahead" is perfectly acceptable as well, since anybody at Regula I would almost certainly be at that lab station or its cave facilities. This much makes perfect sense to me. As for other planets in the system, we simply have no information but it seems at least highly probable. More likely than not though, the film's writers were not giving any of this too much thought beyond the basic plot needs.

Now the Mutara nebula is where the shaky really begins. It was hardly like any typical nebula astronomers have studied from Earth up to this time. Relatively small and compact, the nebula was particularly dense and energetically active. It was likely named Mutara for a reason and we would eventually learn the sector itself was in fact known as "Mutara Sector" (even though sectors were not so well defined that early in Trekdom.)

We know that Regula-I was not inside the Nebula itself, since from certain angles the Nebula would fill the entire background, but from opposite angles there were only the stars and black of space. Though it did appear to be a mere stone's throw away from Regula-I at impulse power, the minutes' travel time from the planetoid to the outer edges of the nebula might have been artistic license for the pace of the film. Nevertheless, it is very possible that the star "Regula" may have been part of a binary (or more) system with a star that had recently undergone its early (astronomically speaking) death throes, thus creating the nebula. This could explain the compact nature of the nebula. It is also highly possible that the Genesis planet was a transformed Regula-I (though I had never personally considered it) and this would better explain where a perfectly suitable star for the warm Genesis planet would have been derived; It was the same star all along. The effective range of the Genesis wave was never stipulated, but the fact that David knew there was no chance of escaping its effect at mere impulse suggests that it may indeed have been powerful enough to reach out and touch Regula-I with life.

Still, the Genesis Device was exploded deep within the nebula and when all was said and done, nothing remained of the nebula. Surely its component matter had to have factored into the eventual formation of Genesis itself. Before the planet was revealed to be a lush garden for Spock's coffin, it was still a smolding orb coalescing from a large hot gaseous cloud. If Regula-I was indeed the seed for the Genesis Planet, the Mutara Nebula almost certainly provided fodder for its development. Any other interpretations might still be valid of course.

The Genesis Device itself may have indeed been flexible to a degree. Since we don't know how much information had been squeezed into the memory banks (indeed we have no idea how it even worked) we don't know just what its programming and subroutines might have entailed. Since the device was a detonation based technology it may have been programmed to scan the environment it was in to calculate the yield of its detonation in order to satisfy the ultimate needs of its matrix; a class-M world. There is no question the device was extremely complex in order to do what it did, failure or not, but the moment it detonated all bets were off and the avalanche would fall where it did.
 
IMO, Genesis was a failure because it was really didn't work as originally proposed.

David Marcus cheated by using protomatter, and that pretty much doomed the entire Project right then and there. Because of the unstable properties of protomatter, there was no way to predict what really would happen once the Genesis device was activated. Marcus took a calculated risk that everything would work and it seemed at first that the risk paid off due to the initially encouraging results from the early Phases I and II--but Phase III was a disaster. While the Genesis Planet was created out of less than ideal conditions, the overall principle was essentially the same--the creation of an M-Class planet from raw stellar material (in this case, the Mutara Nebula rather than a preexisting lifeless planet). The protomatter factor, however, came into play very early and the planet destabilized fairly quickly and ripped itself to pieces. It's plausible that Phases I and II also destablized when the protomatter factor kicked in, but at much slower rates.

In the end, all Genesis succeeded in doing was creating a new type of doomsday weapon.

Just my take on it, though...

Which is how Kruge saw it from the start. And from his point of view, Genesis works. It blows up planets, and it's difficult to believe that everyone would just ignore it, except for moral reasons, unless it had far worse effects than we saw onscreen.

Problem is that the 'Protomatter' line is a weak plot device to get rid of a bit of tech which would have far wider effects than could be coped with in an ongoing series.

For starters, if David only used protomatter to speed things up (as is implied, though I could be referencing the book here rather than the movie), then Genesis could still work if you just did the work properly.

On the other hand, if it can only work if you use protomatter (and then only apparently work for a short time), then you have to ask - were the rest of the Marcus team, and the peer review boatrds who assessed their proposal, too dim to spot this? Or were they all in on David's 'con trick'?

And then again... we know Genesis works, in one unexpected way. IT BROUGHT SPOCK BACK TO LIFE! And 80- years later there's no sign of any unfortunate side effects.
There's another weak explanation about him stablizing because he was separated from the planet before it went 'phut', but that doesn't deal with the point that the Federation now have a way to bring Vulcans (at least, not much point unless there's a katra to re-implant) back to life at the price of of a decent sized nebula and one Genesis torpedo.

And finally, as said at the start, if you want a planet busting weapon, Genesis is a good one. Only reason not to use it as such is a) you've got scruples, or b) you've already got a better one.

The total disappearance of Genesis tech from the later Trek universe isn't credible - unless it had even bigger problems than implied onscreen. Or there's some unmentioned cross-empire treaty that outlawed it.
 
The Genesis device inconveniently upset the technological status quo of the "Star Trek Universe" and therefore had to be ignored.

Nothing really changes in "Star Trek."
 
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