It just occurred to me that this episode would seem to rule out Q Jr being Trelane if I read correctly. Q's proctor says that humans probably are more interesting than they thought and will start learning more about them after this episode. Q Jr was conceived AFTER the Q continuum had been involved with humans for some time from the perspective of the Q. Hence, Q Jr and Trelane seem less likely to be the same now.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 4x07 - "Like Chronitons Through the Hourglass"
He had to wait until the movies for it to finally happen! I wonder if it pissed off Roddenberry. He would have never allowed Bones to sit.
A rambling no not entirely supported by what's actually on screen. I would say the answer is in the eye of the viewer as there isn't any definitive evidence. Much like Trelane being a Q in the first place there's enough to go off of for both sides of the argument to roll with their chosen interpretation.
What writers say behind the scenes is an indicator of initial intention only and has no bearing on anything. One is free to accept it or not with no consequence.
How many things have writers said was the intention behind the scenes have futurs writers disregarded over the years because their intentions were never explicitly expressed on screen and weren't a factor in the stories?
What writers say behind the scenes is an indicator of initial intention only and has no bearing on anything. One is free to accept it or not with no consequence.
How many things have writers said was the intention behind the scenes have futurs writers disregarded over the years because their intentions were never explicitly expressed on screen and weren't a factor in the stories?
Either that or now more Q than just TNG Q will seek out Humans.
Thanks for adding… absolutely nothing to the conversation when replying to me. Again.
You clearly don’t like criticism, so whenever someone makes a substantive point, you retreat into a patronising one-liner and pretend that settles it. It doesn’t.
SNW regularly does episodes centred on individual characters. You don’t suddenly discover that it’s an “ensemble” show when someone praises those episodes. I suspect if I’d made the opposite criticism - that an episode should have given more time to the wider cast - you’d be parroting the exact same line about how it’s perfectly valid to focus on individual characters.
So this isn’t really an argument. It’s just you reaching for whatever stock response lets you dismiss criticism without actually engaging with it. As per.
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I get what you are saying and we all discussed it his first episode. But I thought about it and figured maybe they just used De lancie's voice as a wink to the audience due to speculation and of course the novel that was written. (I'm not sure if the novels are official Canon or not...)
But they keep skirting around it. No mention of Q. I don't know why they just don't come right out say it. It reminds me yet again of that silly episode with the Ferengi on Enterprise.
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“Genuinely good” doing a helluva lot of hard work in that point.
Most of it was just letting the actors get silly. They did it here about as well as they ever do, they get ample opportunity on this show.
This should have been an Anson powerhouse. Giving other folks something to do within that isn’t mutually exclusive.
As I recall, Peter David wanted to state definitely that Q was Trelane's father in the book, but Paramount asked him to keep it ambiguous. So Peter could only hint strongly that Q was Trelane's dad.
As for Q's various offspring, I'm assuming that Trelane and the Q Jr. from Voyager are different characters, sharing the same father.
Mr J said:
The comedy may not hit as well if you're less familiar with the foibles of actual soap operas. As someone who absolutely is: trust me, it's pitched 100% perfectly for that cohort.
(SNW sometimes hits this mark and sometimes doesn't. Just letting the actors be silly isn't enough.)
He wrung a tear or two out of me, I daresay.
Manly tears, of course.
On a practical level, no media tie-in novel is ever truly "canon" because the actual movies and tv shows can and will overwrite them if they see fit to do so. The tail does not wag the dog.
Not a complaint or criticism; that's just the nature of the beast.
And I say that as somebody who has been reading and enjoying media tie-in books for pretty much my entire life, and who has been writing and editing them professionally for decades now.
Done well, they can be a great way to get your Star Trek fix in book form -- even if they aren't "canon."
I genuinely do not believe characters deserve anything, so I find it an unsubstantive argument. To me, an ensemble piece means multiple characters will get the focus and participating in the story. One character doesn't deserve more than the other. That's not something I find compelling.
Now, if people think that the story would be better served by having more Pike, then I could understand that discussion point. Pike is often treated as the solo main character, but I do not believe the show is structured that way.
Would I like more Pike? Yes, I would. He's my favorite captain. Seeing him do more is always my personal preference to the story. But, SNW is not the Pike show.
In an ensemble piece it is not valid to focus on just one character. Episodes that focus more on La'an and Spock are not ones I find enjoyable.
This episode struggles because it wants one character to be the straight man, like Quark in Move Along Home. And the absurdity does not work here because Pike is alone.
That is my criticism of the episode.
"Like Chronitons Through the Hourglass"
Soap operas, as a genre, just don't work for me. So it was already a difficult ask for me to like or enjoy this. And this used all the soap tricks. The hazy look, the quick zoom ins on faces, talking away from a person, etc. My wife pointed out to me that this seemed more like a Spanish telenovela. (She also told me the shrink was a well known soap star... had no idea she was one. So even the casting was soap related.)
This episode just was annoying, with even Pike being annoyed by what was going on. (I do love his line of 'not another musical'... I'm with you there, Cris.)
The 'cut to commercials' each time was just ridiculous... I get that's part of the soap opera stuff, but it just didn't work for me. Not at that frequency, anyway. One time would have been enough and would have worked. It ended up feeling excessive.
'Cosmic amnesia'? (shakes head) And 'space madness'? Ugh... shaka, when the walls fell. That was more like REN & STIMPY than STAR TREK. (And while I loved REN & STIMPY, that just isn't a style that belongs here.)
I really am not a fan of the implication that Trelane is a Q... I preferred them being different beings entirely. This makes the universe feel smaller, which has been a fundamental issue with the Kurtzman era.
Speaking of Trelane, I thought Pike cutting him off before identifying himself was the stupidest way to keep continuity. At least with other examples in the past, like the Ferengi and Borg appearing in ENT, they didn't attempt to give their name at all. Why wouldn't you WANT your adversary to identify themself? That was stupid on Pike's part.
I do like that they used Trelane's sound effect from "THE SQUIRE OF GOTHOS" when he used his powers here. And his line of 'body cleaning theater' was funny.
I like that kal-toh was used here, and it was a nice updated, modern look. Also enjoyed the reference to ENT's "FUSION" and those Vulcans who were trying to incorporate emotions into their lives.
I have to say this episode makes Batel even MORE selfish than I already thought she was. Since she forced Pike to not only live that other life in that bubble world she created in the season 3 finale, but also have a daughter there, too. He has to live with that extra grief and he had no choice in the matter.
Pike's scene with Juliet was really good, and the final scene when he was talking about Juliet was great acting on his part. Those bits are the only things that really give this episode any points at all. It was such a massive chore to get through to those few good scenes that I feel like the episode was a waste.
The post credits scenes were... very... WTF. I actually didn't see it at first because once Pike's final scene ended, I just wanted to turn off the tv. Then I was told that there was a post credits scene, so being the completionist that I am, I had to watch it. I sort of regret that decision.
I hope this is the last gimmick episode of the season, because it's past the point of gimmicks feeling overused. Anson's acting in those last scenes elevate this episode 1 point, giving it a total of 1.5. (Which unfortunately rounds up to a 2 on this site.)
Soap operas, as a genre, just don't work for me. So it was already a difficult ask for me to like or enjoy this. And this used all the soap tricks. The hazy look, the quick zoom ins on faces, talking away from a person, etc. My wife pointed out to me that this seemed more like a Spanish telenovela. (She also told me the shrink was a well known soap star... had no idea she was one. So even the casting was soap related.)
This episode just was annoying, with even Pike being annoyed by what was going on. (I do love his line of 'not another musical'... I'm with you there, Cris.)
The 'cut to commercials' each time was just ridiculous... I get that's part of the soap opera stuff, but it just didn't work for me. Not at that frequency, anyway. One time would have been enough and would have worked. It ended up feeling excessive.
'Cosmic amnesia'? (shakes head) And 'space madness'? Ugh... shaka, when the walls fell. That was more like REN & STIMPY than STAR TREK. (And while I loved REN & STIMPY, that just isn't a style that belongs here.)
I really am not a fan of the implication that Trelane is a Q... I preferred them being different beings entirely. This makes the universe feel smaller, which has been a fundamental issue with the Kurtzman era.
Speaking of Trelane, I thought Pike cutting him off before identifying himself was the stupidest way to keep continuity. At least with other examples in the past, like the Ferengi and Borg appearing in ENT, they didn't attempt to give their name at all. Why wouldn't you WANT your adversary to identify themself? That was stupid on Pike's part.
I do like that they used Trelane's sound effect from "THE SQUIRE OF GOTHOS" when he used his powers here. And his line of 'body cleaning theater' was funny.
I like that kal-toh was used here, and it was a nice updated, modern look. Also enjoyed the reference to ENT's "FUSION" and those Vulcans who were trying to incorporate emotions into their lives.
I have to say this episode makes Batel even MORE selfish than I already thought she was. Since she forced Pike to not only live that other life in that bubble world she created in the season 3 finale, but also have a daughter there, too. He has to live with that extra grief and he had no choice in the matter.
Pike's scene with Juliet was really good, and the final scene when he was talking about Juliet was great acting on his part. Those bits are the only things that really give this episode any points at all. It was such a massive chore to get through to those few good scenes that I feel like the episode was a waste.
The post credits scenes were... very... WTF. I actually didn't see it at first because once Pike's final scene ended, I just wanted to turn off the tv. Then I was told that there was a post credits scene, so being the completionist that I am, I had to watch it. I sort of regret that decision.
I hope this is the last gimmick episode of the season, because it's past the point of gimmicks feeling overused. Anson's acting in those last scenes elevate this episode 1 point, giving it a total of 1.5. (Which unfortunately rounds up to a 2 on this site.)
To be fair, "space madness" was first used in TOS (along with "space happy" and "space legs").
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I've seen it mentioned a couple of times in the thread that those who don't like the soaps won't like this. Well not me. I hate soap operas but thought this episode was wonderfully funny regarding all that. I did watch Santa Barbara a bit because in high school I lived close to the school so would go home for lunch and it would be on. Cruz and company.
They're called "Q".I wouldn't call it a full out comedy it was lighthearted but the story was just blah. They were trying to write around the fact that no one should know who Trelane is that is why he was interrupted when he said his name....so the story suffered from barely any interaction with Trelane. I wish they would have revealed more about Trelanes race. Like what they are called...
In his first appearance, the voice he was speaking with was even done by John DeLancie.
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Zoom meeting at 4pm Eastern to discuss this weeks SNW episode.
Come back here at 4 for the Zoom meeting link.
Everyone is welcome.
See you next week!
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The Borg literally did their whole spiel in ENT, mysteriously omitting the "We are the Borg" opening they say EVERY SINGLE TIME.
I am not a fan of soap operas but those elements were not objectionable to me.
No it assumes there aren't a plethora of mixed Vulcan / human marriages, particularly among the ambassadors. And since it's a TV show and not real life - meaning none of these characters have existence beyond the time we spend with them - there aren't. Kirk should have known it.
Fair enough.
I never liked the character so I'd be just as happy if they let Trelane just be Trelane with no Q connection. I also with they'd just let Khan and his lineage untouched, but I never get what I want.
I defaulted to Ren and Stimpy.
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