On the origin of the "Gimmick Episode" in SNW...(Spoilers)

[Gepard]

Like the original Star Wars?

The original Star Wars said "hey, what if you, the audience watching this, felt like the good guys again?" It was a fantasy of returning to a simple black-and-white conflict (a la WWII) in the wake of the quagmire of Vietnam. I don't believe left wing/right wing -- or really anything political beyond Americans wanting to feel good about themselves -- had much to do with its popularity.

And Lucas himself was more focused on the hero's journey and personal repetition while making the the OT; he didn't start focusing on the political meaning of it all until the prequels. (IIRC the closest thing to anything overtly contemporary political in the OT was basing the Ewoks on the Viet Cong.)

 

[fireproof78]

The original Star Wars said "hey, what if you, the audience watching this, felt like the good guys again?" It was a fantasy of returning to a simple black-and-white conflict (a la WWII) in the wake of the quagmire of Vietnam. I don't believe left wing/right wing -- or really anything political beyond Americans wanting to feel good about themselves -- had much to do with its popularity.

And Lucas himself was more focused on the hero's journey and personal repetition while making the the OT; he didn't start focusing on the political meaning of it all until the prequels. (IIRC the closest thing to anything overtly contemporary political in the OT was basing the Ewoks on the Viet Cong.)

His notes point to America as the Empire far sooner than the PT.

AND it's not about popularity but intent. Even more liberal media like Star Trek still appeal to both sides. I love how SF DEBRIS gets a chuckle out of this by noting that the liberal socialist utopia of TNG had no issues with essentially video game violence use on the holodeck being a non-issue.

 

[Gepard]

His notes point to America as the Empire far sooner than the PT.

The Empire's officers are all British while their uniforms are German and Vader's armor is Japanese; two of those three belonged to Axis powers and none are the USA. Meanwhile, the protagonists are mostly coded as American, from their accents to their clothes to their attitudes.

The coding isn't 1:1 -- Lucas copied Riefenstahl for the medal ceremony -- but I think there's enough there to say that, as far as a finished product goes, the OT and particularly ANH tapped into an American-self image as a heroes and not so much a leftist power struggle against real, current fascism.

Basically I'm tired of arguments, here and with SNW, that "[insert franchise] was always like this." No, they weren't. They may have had elements, but those elements got amplified and altered over time. I guess some people like franchises as their current-day thing, and project that backwards into the past.

 

[fireproof78]

The Empire's officers are all British while their uniforms are German and Vader's armor is Japanese; two of those three belonged to Axis powers and none are the USA. Meanwhile, the heroes are mostly coded as American, from their accents to their clothes to their attitudes.

The coding isn't 1:1 -- Lucas copied Riefenstahl for the medal ceremony -- but I think there's enough there to say that, as far as a finished product goes, the OT and particularly ANH tapped into an American-self image as a heroes and not so much a leftist power struggle against real, current fascism.

Basically I'm tired of arguments, here and with SNW, that "[insert franchise] was always like this." No, they weren't. They may have had elements, but those elements got amplified and altered over time. I guess some people like franchises as their current-day thing, and project that backwards into the past.

I just see the elements and intent as always there, even if it wasn't emphasized. Yes it was always there but it's amplified now because we have less room for allegory and more direct methods of communication.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The original Star Wars said "hey, what if you, the audience watching this, felt like the good guys again?" It was a fantasy of returning to a simple black-and-white conflict (a la WWII) in the wake of the quagmire of Vietnam. I don't believe left wing/right wing -- or really anything political beyond Americans wanting to feel good about themselves -- had much to do with its popularity.

And Lucas himself was more focused on the hero's journey and personal repetition while making the the OT; he didn't start focusing on the political meaning of it all until the prequels. (IIRC the closest thing to anything overtly contemporary political in the OT was basing the Ewoks on the Viet Cong.)

Lucas might disagree.

 

[Noname Given]

SNW has done three truly 'Gimmick' episodes to date:

Subspace Rapsody (The 'Musical' episode)

Those Old Scientists (animation to live action is a gimmick - plus the ending bit with the Enterprise crew animated in LDS style with no real explanation.)

Level 5 Transporter Accident
All the rest could be considered in the vein of 'classic' Star Trek as they're all been done in one way or another by previous Trek TV series.*

*- A Case of Chiaroscuro had a gimmick in that it was filmed in Black and White (explained in universe as to why) - but it was still a pretty standard Star Trek franchise episode.

It's almost gotten to 'dog whistle' status that now anyone who dislikes SNW claims an over-reliance on genre and gimmick episodes when that's something Star Trek has had 'baked in' to it's premise from day one - aka the 'Parallel Worlds' aspect in GR's pitch as a way to be able to use more standard set pieces and costumes and not have to always create brand new items that only work for Star Trek and nothing else.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Those Old Scientists (animation to live action is a gimmick - plus the ending bit with the Enterprise crew animated in LDS style with no real explanation.)

Side effect of the Orion hurricanes

 

[Yistaan]

I still remember when people complained over 20 years ago that the episode Marauders on Enterprise was a blatant Seven Samurai ripoff.

 

[Uhura's Song]

There is a difference betwen the premise as a set up for a story with meaning and the premise being the story. This last episode feels like it was them being puppets for being puppets sake.

The puppet episode is about La'an & Spock breaking up, and Spock returning to the parh of logic, completing the arc from Griffin. The dream/puppet part is incidental.

Same thing with Subspace Rhapsody. The signing is moving the character arcs along. Chapel breaking up with Spock and taking the fellowship. La'an taking more chances in her personal life. Una giving Kirk first officer advice. They even explicitly say so in the ep.

You can do that for all of them. All Those Who Wander isn't about Gorn so much as Uhura realizing she belongs in SF after Hemmer's fate. And more La'an background.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I feel like we need a homage list of all episodes and films and the works they've directly/intentionally adapted or referenced in this manner.

 

[Tosk]

I feel like we need a homage list of all episodes and films and the works they've directly/intentionally adapted or referenced in this manner.

For just SNW, or all of Trek? 'Cause it's gonna be a pretty long list if it's all Trek.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

I feel like we need a homage list of all episodes and films and the works they've directly/intentionally adapted or referenced in this manner.

Of which it only counts as a gimmick if the Kurzman era does it.

 

[eschaton]

SNW has done three truly 'Gimmick' episodes to date:

Subspace Rapsody (The 'Musical' episode)

Those Old Scientists (animation to live action is a gimmick - plus the ending bit with the Enterprise crew animated in LDS style with no real explanation.)

Level 5 Transporter Accident
All the rest could be considered in the vein of 'classic' Star Trek as they're all been done in one way or another by previous Trek TV series.*

*- A Case of Chiaroscuro had a gimmick in that it was filmed in Black and White (explained in universe as to why) - but it was still a pretty standard Star Trek franchise episode.

It's almost gotten to 'dog whistle' status that now anyone who dislikes SNW claims an over-reliance on genre and gimmick episodes when that's something Star Trek has had 'baked in' to it's premise from day one - aka the 'Parallel Worlds' aspect in GR's pitch as a way to be able to use more standard set pieces and costumes and not have to always create brand new items that only work for Star Trek and nothing else.

You might be right that I'm conflating gimmicks with homages. However, I think they tend to be drawn from the same well, as the core idea of the episode is based upon metaknowledge of media, with story and character being secondary elements which are fleshed out in development.

What links them together is you can summarize all of them with something like "Let's do a ____" and it gets across the core of an episode. Whereas in the non gimmick/homage episodes, you need 1-2 sentences explaining the plot/critical characters to get across what the episode is.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

For just SNW, or all of Trek? 'Cause it's gonna be a pretty long list if it's all Trek.

All of Star Trek, but start with the obvious homages, then fill it out from there.

 

[UssGlenn]

All of Star Trek, but start with the obvious homages, then fill it out from there.

You should start a new thread in General Trek, it'll be more focused.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Three headers: episode/film name, what works it's inspired by, and what specifically they have in common (for those unfamiliar with the other work in question)

 

[ichab]

SNW has done three truly 'Gimmick' episodes to date:

Subspace Rapsody (The 'Musical' episode)

Those Old Scientists (animation to live action is a gimmick - plus the ending bit with the Enterprise crew animated in LDS style with no real explanation.)

Level 5 Transporter Accident
All the rest could be considered in the vein of 'classic' Star Trek as they're all been done in one way or another by previous Trek TV series.*

*- A Case of Chiaroscuro had a gimmick in that it was filmed in Black and White (explained in universe as to why) - but it was still a pretty standard Star Trek franchise episode.

It's almost gotten to 'dog whistle' status that now anyone who dislikes SNW claims an over-reliance on genre and gimmick episodes when that's something Star Trek has had 'baked in' to it's premise from day one - aka the 'Parallel Worlds' aspect in GR's pitch as a way to be able to use more standard set pieces and costumes and not have to always create brand new items that only work for Star Trek and nothing else.

Star Trek itself was pitched as "Wagon Train To The Stars" by Rodenberry so that the suits could have an understandable frame of reference for what the show would be. TOS borrowed from everything: TV Westerns, old sci fi stories etc. Some authors of those old stories were paid a usage fee. I mean my gosh, "Spectre of the Gun" was the gunfight at the O.K Corral with a sci fi twist. Probably my favorite TOS homage or gimmick episode was "A Piece Of The Action." I still laugh every time I see the Shat hamming it up as a gangster.

"Okay Spocko cover him"


TNG forward had holodeck episodes that were homaging everything from Dick Tracy, to Sherlock Holmes to James Bond etc.

The only issue I have is that its getting to be a bit too many for a ten episode season. If they were still doing 26 episode seasons and had more balance with the traditional fare I don't think it would be as big of an issue.

 

[Firebird]

I feel like we need a homage list of all episodes and films and the works they've directly/intentionally adapted or referenced in this manner.

Sorta like how Memory Alpha has a similar list?

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek_parodies_and_pop_culture_references

 

[Nerys Myk]

You might be right that I'm conflating gimmicks with homages. However, I think they tend to be drawn from the same well, as the core idea of the episode is based upon metaknowledge of media, with story and character being secondary elements which are fleshed out in development.

What links them together is you can summarize all of them with something like "Let's do a ____" and it gets across the core of an episode. Whereas in the non gimmick/homage episodes, you need 1-2 sentences explaining the plot/critical characters to get across what the episode is.

I think homage is a subset of gimmick.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Example, imagine if Star Trek did a Ferengi episode taken off Pride and Prejudice, called "Profit and Prejudice", where Quark attends a ball at the Nagus's house and someone refuses to do business with him after overhearing his negative comments.

Episode/Film	Reference to	Details
"Profit and Prejudice"	"Pride and Prejudice"	Character being pursued hears someone say something bad about him and snubs him