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Was the scientist justified killing the Crystal? S5E4

SemperWiFi

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Was the scientist justified killing the Crystal in Season 5 episode 4? at the end, I forget the scientist name, but she ended up killing the crystal creature as a way of revenge her son’s death.

I can understand that she wanted revenge, but Captain Picard was obviously pretty upset that she killed the critical creature.

What are your thoughts?
 
Taking revenge on a wild animal isn't really justifiable. And they should always be relocated if they get into human areas, or it should at least be attempted.

She went full Ahab and kind of deserves her heartbreak at the end.
 
Taking revenge on a wild animal isn't really justifiable. And they should always be relocated if they get into human areas, or it should at least be attempted.
This animal wiped out entire planetary eco systems and is clearly warp capable, there's no realistic way to relocate and contain it. Killing it was completely justified and Picard came off as a bit naive with the "maybe we can talk to it" approach.

Some make the argument that the crystalline entity didn't know humans were intelligent but that's a) not true because it communicated with Lore in its first appearance and b) doesn't eben matter because wiping out all life on a planet even with no advanced intelligent life is still objectively bad.

If humanity never evolved would that make earth an okay target for the crystalline entity to feed on, would nothing of value be lost? The crystalline entity wasn't just feeding a bit and then moved on, it literally wiped out everything, it didn't even leave microbes behind.

Dr. Marr did the galaxy a favor.
 
This animal wiped out entire planetary eco systems and is clearly warp capable, there's no realistic way to relocate and contain it. Killing it was completely justified and Picard came off as a bit naive with the "maybe we can talk to it" approach.

Dr. Marr did the galaxy a favor.

You took the shortcut version. Perhaps the inevitable end to it. But the point is you *try* to communicate first. That was Trek's way. I felt they were far more naïve in I, Borg and I question their choices there. But they got the peaceful route as they are the good guys.

The entity even stopped and was showing a response to a communication, but that could never been explored as she was motivated entirely by revenge. She denied the crew that option of even trying.

I adore that Data smacks her down at the end and doesn't pander to her hatred.
 
Once intelligent communication was established, no. You attempt to negotiate, before execution is a last resort. Inferring malevolence in its actions is irrational. If you couldn't communicate or you didn't know it could? Then possibly. If it's unstoppable, & incoercible, it may leave you no choice.

Data laid out her wrongdoing pretty clearly. She knew it was possible to communicate, when she killed it. She was unwilling to offer it the chance, out of spite. She killed it for revenge, not necessity.

Even Riker is working from a bad rationale. Suggesting it not be given a chance to communicate, because it's a risk, assumes its intent is malevolent. Thinking that even after you communicate it may still decide to kill you, is imposing intent to justify your own belligerence.

More work should've been done to determine exactly what Lore did, to "Lure" it to Omicron Theta, whether he merely laid a trail of breadcrumbs for a witless natural predator to follow, or whether he openly learned the same technique Data did, & intelligently colluded with it to kill people, & if so, how complicit or aware was the entity in that harm? You should determine intent before you jump to judgement & react
 
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This animal wiped out entire planetary eco systems and is clearly warp capable, there's no realistic way to relocate and contain it. Killing it was completely justified and Picard came off as a bit naive with the "maybe we can talk to it" approach.

Some make the argument that the crystalline entity didn't know humans were intelligent but that's a) not true because it communicated with Lore in its first appearance and b) doesn't eben matter because wiping out all life on a planet even with no advanced intelligent life is still objectively bad.

If humanity never evolved would that make earth an okay target for the crystalline entity to feed on, would nothing of value be lost? The crystalline entity wasn't just feeding a bit and then moved on, it literally wiped out everything, it didn't even leave microbes behind.

Dr. Marr did the galaxy a favor.
So you were on Team Booker when it came to the 10C then?

If it's a wild animal then it's just feeding even if that feeding is ravenously destructive that isn't its fault. If it is intelligent then you have to try and reason with it first and it plausible a giant silicon based cosmozoan won't be able to tell what these microscopic little things are.

If it turns out to be intelligent and doesn't care it's wiping out living things then that's deliberate aggression on its part and you can justify replying in kind.

Doesn't it just say Lore lured the entity not actually conversed with it?

There are a lot more than just one of them and they've managed to exist as part of the galactic ecosystem for who knows how long. Who is one person to come along millions of years later and decide nah this thing shouldn't exist?
 
Taking revenge on a wild animal isn't really justifiable. And they should always be relocated if they get into human areas, or it should at least be attempted.

She went full Ahab and kind of deserves her heartbreak at the end.
that’s a good thought for sure. I wonder if it was considered an animal, or was it a highly intelligent being?
 
It does hearken back to some TOS episodes such as "The Doomsday Machine" where Our Heroes didn't particularly attempt to communicate with the DDM and assumed it to be an automaton. But at least in that scenario Enterprise was not only being attacked but severely damaged...though one could argue that a wild dog will also attack anything that gets too close to it, but that doesn't mean you can't ultimately make peace with the dog.

I can't recall how much time Our Heroes had in DDM before it would have become a significant threat to civilians again? If they had hours, then regrettably trying to find a path to communication may not have been a realistic option. If they had days or weeks though, then maybe they should have considered other possibilities.

But in "Silicon Avatar", Our Heroes clearly were beginning to communicate, and Dr. Marr simply did not care and took matters into her own hands because she wasn't willing to settle for any option other than the destruction of the creature.
 
And in Riker's defense, when he made his opinion known, there were still unknowns about what they'd be able to do about it. He's clearly thinking along the lines of pragmatic survival over optimistic hopes of a chance they might not get, that could lose them a single opportunity. You can tell by his expression, that his opinion has well changed by the time she does what she did. He was ready to communicate too by then. She was the only one who wasn't willing
 
Was the scientist justified killing the Crystal in Season 5 episode 4? at the end, I forget the scientist name, but she ended up killing the crystal creature as a way of revenge her son’s death.

I can understand that she wanted revenge, but Captain Picard was obviously pretty upset that she killed the critical creature.

What are your thoughts?

I dare say I'll want to rewatch this episode... liked it reasonably well at the time, while noting TNG took another style format change and leaving seasons 3 and 4 in the dust-- but before I digress...

To save greater billions, my quickie answer is "yes", but since even the episode is trying to aim for more nuance then so can those who gawk and react to it like me, so it's going to be a tad more detailed than an episode of the Teletubbies:

Kila's Marr's reactions were very human indeed, and many not unacceptable given the scope of the issue - even if still taking it specific to her own family being devoured. Actually, this is a fresh and new type of plotting route to take regarding the big bad sci-fi monster because sci-fi often shows people getting eaten or whatever but doesn't spend the time showing the ramifications to survivors. Then again, "The Man Trap" felt more realistic (yes, I'm using that word in describing science fiction), and - for a fun tangent - had shows like - say - "Space: 1999" wallow on how the humans were coping with no moon affecting the tides and other ecological frivolities instead of how the moonbase crew were surviving, audiences would go long before the fictional people of that fictional circumstance would as you wouldn't have alien and/or psi-supernatural incidents occurring as often. Space being the unknown also makes suspension of disbelief more likely to be possible, but I digress...

Quick aside: We also have to forget that Lore was able to communicate with the crystalline entity in perfect RP English in its premiere story, yet Data couldn't. But noting that, now the crew have to become wine glass tapper musicians to get even the most basic linguistics across to the big galactic amulet there - even Captain Pike's two-option buzzer from "The Menagerie" had more depth, so having to figure out how to tell the thing "Find planets featuring silicon-based fritters, or if nothing else go for some dolphin-safe seaweed instead of bipedal monkeys" was going to take a fair bit of time given how big the crystalline entity was and how much it needs as sustenance.

But Kila was hyper-focused a tad much on Data when, especially for we the audience who knew already, Data didn't lure the thing to eat the colonists. That said, she did grow to like Data, especially when we find out that he has stored all of Renny's diary content and has "memorized" aspects of his personality, which may be incomplete but let's not worry over that right now. So then we get to the final scene where Data makes a bizarre and obviously inconclusive connection and decision on how Renny might have felt (he would be oh-so-disappointed, bad doctor scientist Kila, bad, bad!!), in an early example of season 5's soapbox addiction/contrived storytelling methods to where the bridge clique are always 100% pure-dee-right, even when they're not (or at least not as clear-cut as "Star Trek The Brady Bunch Generation" now wants to make things out as being.) The truth is, supposition can only go so far based on what is known, and even then it's not always a 100% predictable supposition.

Actually, I recall more about Riker being all annoyed about his latest bedbuddy of the week daring to want to save another colonist and then gets promptly devoured via a well-done special effect. But where's that enlightened 24th century spirit? When do we get the sequel to "Silicon Avatar" where Riker is blamed for not stopping the thing, or not stopping her from caring more about "an old man"* that she might have known better than him, or at least has to live longer with. There's a fun irony in all this, in that maybe, just maybe, Riker would settle down based on the number of double entendres she was serving up, but that seemed unlikely as well. But in stories like this, the power of plot armor is key.

Kirk would treat the crystalline giant keychain fob thing the same way as the big space amoeba or doomsday machine. Can't see Sisko or Janeway being as "enlightened" as Picard either. Especially when most humans in this story were showing they weren't either.


* Those were Riker's own words told in the story, perhaps misplaced because he couldn't get his horndog on... or not. Even 100-or-so stories shown prior to this one don't tell the potential full story either, and the story ran out of time and direction to explore every possibility.​
 
It wasn’t unjustified, but trying the other option would have been better. I think they established that the Crystalline Entity was at least potentially intelligent and knew what it was doing. Taking the contact option would have been preferable, and just destroying the thing is a loss; but I can’t find it in my heart to condemn her for destroying it, considering. (TL;DR: She should be fired, not imprisoned.)
 
I think if it killed 1 or 2 people could have been handled, but it was killing tens of thousands. I had the "feelings" for Picard. Rules and regulations are what drives him, and he loves life, especially new undiscovered life.
 
This animal wiped out entire planetary eco systems and is clearly warp capable, there's no realistic way to relocate and contain it. Killing it was completely justified and Picard came off as a bit naive with the "maybe we can talk to it" approach.

Some make the argument that the crystalline entity didn't know humans were intelligent but that's a) not true because it communicated with Lore in its first appearance and b) doesn't eben matter because wiping out all life on a planet even with no advanced intelligent life is still objectively bad.

If humanity never evolved would that make earth an okay target for the crystalline entity to feed on, would nothing of value be lost? The crystalline entity wasn't just feeding a bit and then moved on, it literally wiped out everything, it didn't even leave microbes behind.

Dr. Marr did the galaxy a favor.
Wow you brought up many points I didn't think about. Ya, I think I changed my mind, I think it was justified, shitty, but justified.
 
She killed it right then because there was a possibility that Picard would later decide that it wasn't necessary. They weren't going to let it harm anyone else either way, so she was just out for vengeance.
 
As is often the case with TNG, the script's pretty clearly made up its mind on the issue and expects the viewer to go along with it. It's a polemic that doesn't really invite room to disagree or debate. It's impossible to side with her if you take the episode at face value, because it makes Picard's case airtight and includes the "we'll destroy it if we have to" clause.

The part I don't get is that iirc the crystal was already more or less shown to be sentient (and malicious) in Datalore, but I guess the writers and/or characters just sort of forgot.
 
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