Was the scientist justified killing the Crystal? S5E4

[Qonundrum]

As is often the case with TNG, the script's pretty clearly made up its mind on the issue and expects the viewer to go along with it. It's a polemic that doesn't really invite room to disagree or debate. It's impossible to side with her if you take the episode at face value, because it makes Picard's case airtight and includes the "we'll destroy it if we have to" clause.

^^this

The part I don't get is that iirc the crystal was already more or less shown to be sentient (and malicious) in Datalore, but I guess the writers and/or characters just sort of forgot.

Probably forgot. Heck, in 1991. a lot of viewers might forgotten about thsee details, and some may have been new to the show - or giving it a fresh chance of they balked during early season 1 but returned by season 3 or 4 and then enjoyed this new style.
At the time, IMHO, it was sorta cool to see the thing again, even if the new direction the show was taking was... uneven. Neither crystalline entity story is perfect, but I keep gravitating back to "Datalore" far more often where Lore tells his pet that it will appreciate the life of the crew (now imagine all the camping trips they go out to together and who brings the charcoal). Others gravitate back to "Silicon Avatar". Some balk at both, it's all good.

 

[Farscape One]

And in Riker's defense, when he made his opinion known, there were still unknowns about what they'd be able to do about it. He's clearly thinking along the lines of pragmatic survival over optimistic hopes of a chance they might not get, that could lose them a single opportunity. You can tell by his expression, that his opinion has well changed by the time she does what she did. He was ready to communicate too by then. She was the only one who wasn't willing

I think Riker secretly was fine with her destroying the Crystalline Entity. If you look at his expression just as he and Picard are looking toward Dr. Marr, Riker has what appears to be a very slight smile.

And I can't say I blame him.


He's not wrong in his assertions when he was talking with Picard in the ready room. One of the primary jobs of Starfleet officers is to safeguard the lives of Federation citizens. (A point that Admiral Necheyev made to Picard in "Descent" when she, correctly, took issue with Picard's decision about not trying giving the program to Hugh to infect the Borg.)

I get what Picard was going for and it's a great goal, but where does it end?

What I mean is that all evidence shows the Crystalline Entity only hits class M worlds with life or that can have life. (It even kills all life on ships, as we saw happen when they answered that distress call.) Eventually, you run out of uninhabited worlds that you can feed it and the only ones left are inhabited ones. So what happens then, just let it kill all the people on those worlds?

It's unfortunate, but I think it was the right call to destroy it.



One thing that this and "Datalore" never answered: how did Lore even know the Crystalline Entity existed to begin with? And how did he find the time to figure out how to communicate with it so he can betray the colonists to it?

 

[Qonundrum]

I think Riker secretly was fine with her destroying the Crystalline Entity. If you look at his expression just as he and Picard are looking toward Dr. Marr, Riker has what appears to be a very slight smile.

And I can't say I blame him.

And it makes up for his being angry for not getting his proverbial potato salad earlier in the story...

He's not wrong in his assertions when he was talking with Picard in the ready room. One of the primary jobs of Starfleet officers is to safeguard the lives of Federation citizens. (A point that Admiral Necheyev made to Picard in "Descent" when she, correctly, took issue with Picard's decision about not trying giving the program to Hugh to infect the Borg.)

^^this

It was one of the highlights of "Descent" pt 1 as well as the dire situation created by Picard... which sadly ended with another "Brothers of Soong" song

I get what Picard was going for and it's a great goal, but where does it end?

Keeping the Crystalline Entity (and every other one out there like it) confined (for lack of better term) but with obtainable comparable electrolyte and salt energy sources they need? Like a sanctuary or preserve. Then again, "The Man Trap" showed a possible outcome on a far smaller scale, the moment the salt went out, but thankfully the entity didn't shapeshift into a hottie to lure you with. (TNG could be so antithetical to TOS at times... yet not quite apocryphal either...)

Of course, how many are out there, how do they travel (and FTL??) but that little problem was common in TOS as well for various baddies of the week and one had to roll with it...

What I mean is that all evidence shows the Crystalline Entity only hits class M worlds with life or that can have life. (It even kills all life on ships, as we saw happen when they answered that distress call.) Eventually, you run out of uninhabited worlds that you can feed it and the only ones left are inhabited ones. So what happens then, just let it kill all the people on those worlds?

YEP!

There's only so many outcomes. At least Picard tried, though the number of steps needed to go from "tap tap tap, Penny" to "Hi there, can we work together to help you survive without frying every planet that we biological fritters need?" required more than 40 minutes, but the story also wasn't going to end on a note as any given Brady Bunch episode where everything was neatly resolved after 23 minutes.

It's unfortunate, but I think it was the right call to destroy it.

It may be a no-win scenario.

I'm not sure if the makers saw "Datalore" and wanted to "add depth" to it. I can sorta see it, and yet it doesn't fully land. Never mind the sacrificial lamb of Riker's latest hottie for whom he's upset over because she dared to save an old man. It's a character moment that's on par with how Riker was written in, say, "Justice".

One thing that this and "Datalore" never answered: how did Lore even know the Crystalline Entity existed to begin with? And how did he find the time to figure out how to communicate with it so he can betray the colonists to it?

As with FTL travel, the mysteries of the universe are-- wacked, at times. It's oddly easier to handle these big space fritters who somehow end up in deep space despite no hint of FTL ability than it is for the coincidence needed for Lore to have stumbled over it in the first place (and before he was dismantled and shelved in the largest packaging case ever*, where he was also mooning anyone who found him along with the audience thanks to clever camera angles).

* but designed with cryogenic dry ice fog and what not because even technological components unused slowly start to wear out, even if unpowered and unused. Just nowhere near as fast, but anything to limit or halt the degradation. For example, a real-life computer system (made in 1977) sitting on a shelf for 50+ years without being plugged in will likely still work without issue for a long time if stored properly. After 60~70 years or more, it may eventually develop problems, but MTBF is still an estimation based on known values extrapolated and other unknown variables might still exist (quality of materials, storage conditions, etc - avoid heat and humidity...). Working lifespan** would be less depending on type of chip, substrate, and other materials - any half-life for the whole constructed item is arguably more dependent most on the half-life of the weakest material used in the most integral function of the chip. (if the casing is plastic, it can start to degrade but not impact the chip's usability.)​

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** Plugged in and used 24/7, lifespan would be maybe 10 years but I'm not a clock, not even a cuckoo clock... well, maybe a metaphorical sparrow as I tend to flit about into open-facing tangents, apologies if I was preaching to the proverbial choir as well...​

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[CoveTom]

The writers definitely scooted over that Lore directly spoke to it.

In fairness, we as the audience know that Lore was able to directly speak to it, but did any of the other characters ever know that? It's been a long time since I watched "Datalore," but I don't remember anyone else seeing him communicate with it.

 

[Farscape One]

In fairness, we as the audience know that Lore was able to directly speak to it, but did any of the other characters ever know that? It's been a long time since I watched "Datalore," but I don't remember anyone else seeing him communicate with it.

When Lore was talking to it in the cargo bay, he was interrupted from finishing his sentence to it when he heard Data and Wesley already in the cargo bay (with Dr. Crusher coming from another angle, phaser drawn after he threatened Wesley). At the very least, those 3 heard Lore speaking to it.

Also, the rest of the crew could easily have checked their communication logs and saw that Lore did contact it, at least.

 

[WarpCore]

When a fox eats half your chickens, you shoot it if you get a chance.
When a dictator goes mass murdering, you shoot it if you get a chance.
When a healing crystal tweaks your chakra, you smash it with a starship's tuning fork or something.

I don't buy the argument that a species can be so advanced, intelligent, and sentient that it cannot recognize 'lesser' species as advanced, intelligent, and sentient thus having value.

If a space creature eats planets, it's an imminent threat to someone at all times; thus destroying it is justified self-defense (3rd party counts).

The only alternative is mounting it on Rockefeller Plaza and stringing up lights.

 

[Qonundrum]

I'm also amazed that Beverly didn't even ask the computer to scan it for an analysis to find out what it is* - much less ways to communicate with it, a la "Home Soil" where computer even had the response, with saccharine inflection, of "life".

Then again, not all life reacts the same so the big planet-suckin' thing may not blink or flash** or have any other cues upon being tapped... apart from vibrating... then again, interesting idea retconned or not or other regarding this silicon-based lifeform, it's still a crystal and most vibrations aren't necessarily going to be deemed friendly if it knows it's a weakness... Picard really was assuming a helluvalot about all the sentience he and the plotting put into it.

* Honestly, why not? By the late 24th century, Starfleet has come across how many lifeforms that live in outer space but by never updated their sensor systems either? (Anything's technically possible, however.)​

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** Only light, thankfully, this isn't 1974 anymore when flashing as "a thing", ditto for streaking too...​

 

[Qonundrum]

Also, the rest of the crew could easily have checked their communication logs and saw that Lore did contact it, at least.

The only downer to that is, that story was scripted to boost Wesley by artificially dumbing down the adults - even more than average for season 1 (even worse than "Justice", which is quite a feat), but to get back to the point I'd forgotten: Everyone on the ship would just have to sit around like mushrooms and wait for Wesley to point it out after getting done reminding people that he'd be listened to if he were an adult. (That can happen to people in real life, but good grief season one slathered it on so often and for too-contrived reasons... but there were even a couple of episodes, like "Where No One Has Gone Before", that did the same routine to genuinely good and believable effect.)

 

[valkyrie013]

Best applicable analog would be a bear or a tiger that ate a human, what do you do ? Usually kill it as its gotten a taste for humans.
For the crystalline entity, the species may be usually benign but for some reason, its taken to "eatting" M class inhabited worlds. Is that due to Lore "Corrupting" it? Maybe.

But the episode didn't go all out with it being malicious, there was a possibility of communication, telling it what its doing is wrong, or that they would destroy it if it continued to feed that way. But the Doctor wanted revenge. Sure probably not many tears were shed, but there was a possibility of communication, and taking care of a problem without death.

 

[Tallguy]

Her motivation was wrong. Picard's and Data's were right. (Well... Less wrong?)

She did the right thing. They were going to screw up.

Funny old world, innit?

Sure probably not many tears were shed, but there was a possibility of communication, and taking care of a problem without death.

As many have pointed out, this is undone by the very episode that introduced the CE.

Just a thought: Picard is more willing to try to talk to this galactic murdering snowflake than he is with any society with clear intelligence that is willing and capable of communication but does not have warp drive. There is no indication that the CE has developed this as a technology. Or is part of any kind of society. Or ticks ANY of Picard's (The Federation's) checkboxes for advanced communication.

Let the occasional planetary society face extinction? Sure. (More than one!) Eliminate a proven scourge to Federation citizens? That would be WRONG.

 

[Orphalesion]

I'm not a fan of revenge.

But I'm in favour of the Crystal Entity being destroyed, and no amount of "food chain!" "squids get eaten!" or whatever else will convince me otherwise. That thing is regularly ending whole biospheres. That's too much. It's not like there can be too many life bearing planets that need the Crystal Entities to keep them in check (the reason predators are good for eco systems) It just produces death.
Just like with the Borg the allegories stop working on that scale.

 

[Farscape One]

This was a case where an act of vengeance and the result of it being the right thing to do are in agreement.

 

[Ragitsu]

An alternative source of sustenance may have been devised, in time; they will never know.

 

[Farscape One]

And in the time it would take to find that alternative source, many planets would be eaten up and many more people would be killed. (In just the span of this episode, 1 world was eaten and another ship lost their crew. I'll have to watch again to be sure, but the in-universe time here is, what, a couple days at most?)

And that doesn't even include the time it would take to figure out how to communicate actual sentences.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

They weren't going to let it harm anyone else, that was never going to happen. So the choice was between 'kill it now before learning anything' or 'do the best we can to get more information so we can make an informed choice and perhaps discover alternatives'.

 

[NCC-73515]

One of our Planets is Missing and Devil in the Dark showed how it's done. Communicate with the monster, it may realize for the first time what harm it causes, and may then stop and go vegan.
(If it doesn't respond, no comms work, or it simply refuses, you can then of course destroy it still)

 

[DonIago]

I agree. "Silicon Avatar" was TNG's "Devil in the Dark", if one of the miners had killed the Horta while Spock was trying to mind-meld with it.

 

[Tallguy]

I agree. "Silicon Avatar" was TNG's "Devil in the Dark", if one of the miners had killed the Horta while Spock was trying to mind-meld with it.

And if turned out that the Horta WAS in fact a mindless killer. And instead of miners it was entire planets.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

And if turned out that the Horta WAS in fact a mindless killer. And instead of miners it was entire planets.

We don't know how it would've turned out, they were killed too soon.

 

[DonIago]

And if turned out that the Horta WAS in fact a mindless killer. And instead of miners it was entire planets.

There's no evidence either way as to what the crystalline entity's thought process was, if any. But the E-D could have destroyed it if it proved to still be a threat, as evidenced.