What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[CoveTom]

Which is my point -- that human writers are fallible and we have the right to criticize their poor choices.

I don't think this was a poor choice. With all due respect, I think you are reading way more into Kirk's line about his death than was ever intended or than most people would ever think about it.

Kirk thought he would die alone in the end. That's it. No metaphysical powers involved. Kirk has always fought a battle with loneliness. And he also trusted that if his companions Spock and McCoy were there, they'd pull his ass out of the fire. It doesn't have to go any deeper than that.

 

[B.J.]

Back when MySpace was still the predominant social media platform, I made a Captain Kirk MySpace profile for fun one weekend. One of the lines I put in the bio was "I've always known I'll die alone. Well, sometimes there's a bald British guy with me, but a good 75-80% of the time, I'm alone."

*French

 

[Shawnster]

Kirk thought he would die alone in the end.... Kirk has always fought a battle with loneliness.

Why did Kirk feel he would die alone? What do you mean he always fought a battle with loneliness? Can you expand on this?

Because it seems like Kirk has always been surrounded by his friends. As you said, he trusts Spock and McCoy will be there when he needs them. The implication of "I'll die alone" is that, in the end, none of the people he loves and trusts will be there. No one will have his back.

Clearly I don't mean alone in the literal, physical sense. There are people dying in hospitals, nursing homes, or hospice care that feel they are alone despite the presence of doctors, nurses, and care staff.

 

[Christopher]

Why did Kirk feel he would die alone? What do you mean he always fought a battle with loneliness? Can you expand on this?

There was a lot in TOS about Kirk wrestling with the loneliness of command, but that wasn't about being literally unaccompanied by other people, just about it being lonely at the top, having to bear the responsibility for command decisions alone -- and also about the demands of the job not leaving him room to find love and happiness with a woman.

That's another reason the "I'll die alone" line lands badly. It comes out of nowhere. It doesn't feel like it's in character, it's just a random, maudlin insertion.

 

[Farscape One]

I wouldn't say it comes out of nowhere. He's much older than when he first took command of the original five year mission, and it's during a camping trip with his two best friends... really, his brothers. You start to think even more deeply about certain things when you get older.

And considering how often Kirk wrestled with the loneliness at the top, as you yourself said, it IS in character that he'd share that with the two people he's closest to.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

It doesn’t come out of nowhere. It’s fine.

Man gets older and begins to contemplate death. It’s normal.

 

[Farscape One]

It doesn’t come out of nowhere. It’s fine.

Man gets older and begins to contemplate death. It’s normal.

Might even say it's...

Human.

 

[fireproof78]

Might even say it's...

Human.

I see no reason to stand here and be insulted

 

[Set Harth]

Human.

((in odd croaking vocal inflection))

 

[Mim]

I agree that the earlier seasons of TNG are better. I can barely get through the later seasons.

Controversial Opinion:

Season 3 of TOS is still better than most all the other seasons of Trek that followed.

I agree with you on TOS season 3 being better than most other seasons of post TOS Trek. Season 3 is one of my favorite pieces of Trek media.

 

[cooleddie74]

Season 3 is mediocre for TOS but when stacked up against seasons of later Trek it holds its own pretty well.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Season 3 is no worse for me than any other in TOS. Same mix of sublime, doggerel and everything in between. At its worst, TOS is never less than entertaining.

 

[Vger23]

I think there are a couple more stinkers in S3 TOS than S1 or 2, but there is also a lot more sci-fi otherworldliness that I really appreciate in its tone. I also think S3 explores unique alien life a little better than the other seasons. If you can get past the 3-4 true clunkers (...And The Children Shall Lead, Plato's Stepchildren, Turnabout Intruder) the rest is pretty solid.

 

[Christopher]

I wouldn't say it comes out of nowhere. He's much older than when he first took command...

Again, though, that handwave requires ignoring his actual phrasing, which was "I've always known." He was claiming it was a lifelong belief, not a recent one.

And considering how often Kirk wrestled with the loneliness at the top, as you yourself said, it IS in character that he'd share that with the two people he's closest to.

I already said that that's a completely different thing. He wasn't talking about feeling lonely, he was claiming that he could predict the physical circumstances of his future death -- i.e. being alone -- and that he knew he wouldn't die falling off of El Capitan because two other people were with him. As written, those lines just come off as silly and melodramatic. If they were meant to convey something else, then they didn't do it well.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Give a dog a bone...

 

[Farscape One]

Again, though, that handwave requires ignoring his actual phrasing, which was "I've always known." He was claiming it was a lifelong belief, not a recent one.




I already said that that's a completely different thing. He wasn't talking about feeling lonely, he was claiming that he could predict the physical circumstances of his future death -- i.e. being alone -- and that he knew he wouldn't die falling off of El Capitan because two other people were with him. As written, those lines just come off as silly and melodramatic. If they were meant to convey something else, then they didn't do it well.

So someone can't have that kind of feeling when they are younger and, as the years go by, that feeling gets even stronger?

And if you actually read what I wrote, you'd notice I said it was in character for Kirk to share those feelings with Spock and McCoy.

As I said... it's not some mystical precognition or time travel foreknowledge.


Clearly, we are going in circles here, so I'll just say let's agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I think there are a couple more stinkers in S3 TOS than S1 or 2, but there is also a lot more sci-fi otherworldliness that I really appreciate in its tone. I also think S3 explores unique alien life a little better than the other seasons. If you can get past the 3-4 true clunkers (...And The Children Shall Lead, Plato's Stepchildren, Turnabout Intruder) the rest is pretty solid.

It has The Empath, Spectre of the Gun, The Tholian Web… they stand with the best of the other seasons.

On the other hand, The Alternative Factor is right down there with And The Children Shall Lead.

It’s all swings and roundabouts as they say.

Do they say that?

I heard they say that anyway. That’s what counts.

 

[Farscape One]

It has The Empath, Spectre of the Gun, The Tholian Web… they stand with the best of the other seasons.

On the other hand, The Armageddon Factor is right down there with And The Children Shall Lead.

It’s all swings and roundabouts as they say.

Do they say that?

I heard they say that anyway. That’s what counts.

"THE ALTERNATIVE FACTOR".

(And I agree, that is the second worst episode of TOS, with "AND THE CHILDREN SHALL LEAD" being the worst.)

Love the others in season 3 you mention, too.

"THE EMPATH" - best showcase of the trio's bond in the franchise.

"SPECTRE OF THE GUN" - creepy atmosphere, with an interesting metaphysical thought by Spock toward the end.

"THE THOLIAN WEB" - one of my favorites of TOS period.

 

[Christopher]

So someone can't have that kind of feeling when they are younger and, as the years go by, that feeling gets even stronger?

The problem is that we're talking past each other. You think I'm talking about what a character can feel. I'm talking about this as a writer analyzing how a scene was written. The words a writer uses are what convey the characters' feelings, and they can't convey those feelings well if they're poorly chosen. Every attempt you're making to rationalize the line requires ignoring the letter of the text and pretending it meant something different. But that just underlines the problem with the text itself.

 

[fireproof78]

I never misunderstood Kirk's intent. But, then, I use the phrase "I've always known" a lot on my life. I'm usually wrong but that doesn't change my speaking.