I agree. It was so out of character for Beverly to take the whole "hey, the captain has decided so we have to just go along" attitude. It was all done to provide setup for the next scene with Lily. But as you say, that confrontation should have been with Beverly, not Lily.
Who would've replaced Scotty in Generations if Doohan had said no?
- Thread starter tim0122
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But it gave us the dillweed moment.
Agreed. If there had to be a crossover, they should have done two movies. The first starts in the 23rd century, maybe on the Enterprise-B with all of the TOS crew present, and they somehow end up 80 years in the future. The movie ends with a set up for the second film, which worked for Back To The Future II. That could have worked, but TUC was such a fitting send-off (for the most part) that anything less would have tarnished that film, just as GEN did.
Honestly, I thought the structure was fine, and I'm not sure that anyone's come up with a better one.
Prelude in the TOS era with Kirk setting up the main macguffin, then the TNG cast picks up the story before bringing Kirk and Picard together for the climax.
Having Kirk and Picard meet was the whole hook for the movie. It absolutely worked for the marketing department, leading to Shatner and Stewart on the cover of Time Magazine. Star Trek's arguable cultural zenith.
The issues with the film are all the bits around that - mainly the unclear and confusing nature of the Nexus, the limp subplot with the Duras sisters, leading to the unearned crash of the Enterprise-D. And Soren being a villain who just didn't quite work, despite the great casting of McDowell.
Prelude in the TOS era with Kirk setting up the main macguffin, then the TNG cast picks up the story before bringing Kirk and Picard together for the climax.
Having Kirk and Picard meet was the whole hook for the movie. It absolutely worked for the marketing department, leading to Shatner and Stewart on the cover of Time Magazine. Star Trek's arguable cultural zenith.
The issues with the film are all the bits around that - mainly the unclear and confusing nature of the Nexus, the limp subplot with the Duras sisters, leading to the unearned crash of the Enterprise-D. And Soren being a villain who just didn't quite work, despite the great casting of McDowell.
Malcom McDowell was fantastic and was absolutely wasted in the film. And scuttling the Enterprise-D was unforgivable. She looked so good on the big screen. She needed to be kept for the other features.
I would have loved to see the stardrive survive so that, with the saucer damaged beyond repair, she'd need a new saucer section. The new saucer could have been smaller (no more room for families) and with some upgraded nacelles, we'd have a nice callback to the first TOS movie in the first TNG movie: a refit Enterprise. The Enterprise-E is hideous and undeserving of the name.
I've toyed with the idea of a non-linear cut of Generations, moving the prologue to the middle of the film after Riker says "That's the mission where James Kirk died," except I don't know exactly where it goes, and I'm not sure it makes anything better.
Soran as a villain is a problem. Picard is far more of an obstacle for Soran than Soran is an obstacle for Picard, and from Picard's side their conflict feels rather stakes-free. What I mean by that, since the Enterprise-D crashes and is destroyed, is that Picard doesn't know this. He and Soran are having a monkeybars fight with the lives of millions we never, ever see at stake. We in the audience need to keep this is mind, but it's not really concrete to Picard in the film. The stakes, even the D crew, are abstract in what we see from Picard's POV.
I realize it would be a big honking coincidence -- planets are huge -- but I'd have had an establishing shot of Picard seeing the saucer streaking through the skies above Soran's base. Picard's ship is gone, his crew is likely dead, it's all up to him.
I'd have worked Soran into Picard's Nexus fantasy in some fashion. Maybe Soran and his family come to Christmas dinner at the Picards, and Picard in his Nexus confusion feels that Soran is a friend but also feels a sense of unease, and Soran says some things in their dinner conversation that seem pleasant but have an undercurrent of taunting and menace. I now imagine a conversation about the "Picard who fought at Trafalgar" (which has always been strange to my historian-self, as the French were utterly routed at Trafalgar, so why is Picard so proud of that?), and on the surface it seems fine but the undercurrent is that this Picard also lost his ship and his crew.
Also, if the Nexus can take one to any time and any place, there are other places Kirk and Picard could go. And maybe the climax of the film takes place in Kirk's time, on the B.
I also think that they could have done a Deep Space Nine episode that connected in some way to Generations, much as "Unification" connected to Star Trek VI. Mark Altman did a comic for Malibu with the Duras sisters looking for trilithium, so maybe something like that would have made the film feel "bigger." Soran visits DS9 or something like that. Why not?
Doc Brown taking Marty and Jennifer into the future was not intended as a setup for BTTF2. It was simply a gag to end the film with. Bob Gale and Robert Zemeckis have said that if they knew they were going to make a sequel, they never would've put Jennifer into the car at the end of the first film.
Feels kind of grass is always greener on the other side, if they had kept it and/but also had new very different uniforms that would have looked/seemed pretty weird combination and if they kept both old ship and uniforms a lot of people would complain a lot they made FOUR movies, well over 5 years, without making changes, even trying to improve, have own identity (a lot of people think that as was there was too little change from the series).
Just (a trimmed version of the sequence) after Picard rejects the Nexus and before he then meets Kirk could be an interesting alternate placement, you would then instead need to make the Nexus seem more interesting though also dangerous to the main TNG characters for it to be to the audience but that probably would be better.
The way the Enterprise D went down is really unforgivable. In battle or just retired, either would have been fine as long as handled properly. The A retired; the sixth film was in the year 2293 and the Enterprise B launched 2293, hence why the ship was recalled; the same could have happened with the D.
I could have accepted a new Enterprise and new uniforms, if they had just not been UGLY. And certainly not smaller than the D. And the set designs are also crap. like99% without fail, sets never recovered after the films and "Star Trek: Voyager" set designs.
The Enterprise ship designs never recovered after the D, they just got worse and worse.
Star Trek took on a very cheap and lifeless look from FC forward. I hated that DS9 got stuck with those abysmal uniforms. I also agree on the Sovereign Class: it's utter garbage. A far better design for the Enterprise-E would have been the Akira Class. Of course, the Galaxy Class could have stuck around with a slight refit to echo the original Enterprise.
It's also the ugly boxy/bulky nature of designs. the styles from movies to TNG seemed to be going more smooth, visually appealing, like it was purpose + style, but that all seemed to be lost. Look how simple yet memorable the D Engineering area is, then look at how forgettable and weak the Voyager engineering room is. The last decent Bridge set I recall seeing, was the Prometheus (a fluke you might say).
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