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Re-Watching VOY

Getting back into this. I left off with Paris starting to get sick. So, I guess we're going to have to get Down with the Sickness! Cue Disturbed.

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You know what else it reminds me of, since horror was brought up? Alien, when Kane got what he thought was "sick" and Parker was like, "Come on, the food ain't that bad!" When Paris and Torres in the Mess Hall, and Paris starts to feel the first symptoms, that has to be homage to the first Alien movie.

Where is that taking us? That's what we're going to find out as I put on the rest of the episode!



"Threshold" (2nd Part of the Review)

Unfortunately, once Paris is taken to Sickbay, can't breathe oxygen anymore, and has veins all over his face, that's when it starts to turn too silly for me. "RIP, Tom Paris. Beloved Mutant." If you're into horror and other weird stuff like this, I can see why you'd like it. But this isn't my type of thing. Then Paris talks about all kinds of random things.

Then he dies, comes back to life, his body changes faster and faster, and he looks like, well what I'd call that is not what I'd call evolved. He should be in a monster movie! This makes no sense, but we'll keep going.

Okay, keeping going. Every time Paris opens his mouth, he's all over the place. It really comes out when he's talking to Janeway. He gets it all out before... he literally takes out his tongue? :wtf:

I forgot all about that.

Then he's still speaking after he takes out his tongue? That's not possible. You can't speak without your tongue! But anyway... Paris gets worse and worse. If I was watching this with someone else, I'd be completely embarrassed.

After a bunch of technobabble in Engineer to try to get Paris back to normal, Mutated Paris kidnaps Janeway, somehow still knows how to use a shuttle. Three days later, Voyager has located Paris and Janeway on a planet, and -- at the 40-minute mark -- I'm wondering when this is going to be over. Janeway and Paris are now salamanders.

This is an opening for me to weigh in on something: The Doctor says this is a future step in the stage of the evolution of Humans. Brannon Braga was being a contrarian when he wondered, "Who says we have to become more advanced as we evolve?" Now, I'll say that evolution is adaptation to your environment. Adaptation doesn't mean advancement, it only means changing to survive. But under no circumstance can I imagine Homo Sapiens adapting into salamanders. This isn't science-fiction because it's not remotely based on any type of science at all. It's nonsensical, irrational, and only being done because "Why not?" It's anti-science-fiction.

I already couldn't get behind Infinite Speed but was willing to set that aside. I also can't get behind Humans evolving into salamanders but I'm not willing to put that aside. That's a step too far. Losing our mental capacity and reverting into a salamander is NOT adapting to survive. I can't imagine any scenario where that could possibly happen. It only happened in this episode because Brannon Braga somehow thought it was cool.

And how does Janeway become a salamander? Oh wait. She was at "Warp 10" as well. Never mind. Mutated Janeway and Mutated Paris have Mutated Babies. Salamander Babies. After that, the Doctor is able to change Janeway and Paris back to normal.

Why did Jonas think it would be a good idea to report to the Kazon and Seska about Warp 10? Seska probably laughed it off as soon as she heard about what happened.

So, I hadn't seen this episode in 17 years, and now I think it'll probably be another 17. If ever. How do I rate this? Let's see...

I give the first 19 minutes a 6. Not bad, but I don't agree with the concept. High end of Mixed Opinion. I give the next 26 minutes a 1. I think it's completely stupid and ridiculous. So, now, when I put the two together and weight the averages proportionately, it comes out to a 3.1, which rounds down to a 3.

"What?! You give it a 3?!?!!" Yeah. That's a pretty "high" rating, considering that I went into this thinking I'd only give it a 1.

So, that's it. I've broken through the threshold and made it through "Threshold"!
Like you said, fans of horror can appreciate this in ways you might not.

I still stand by my statement of this being a good episode. It's a great Tom Paris character piece.

And The Doctor did say POSSIBLE later evolutionary stage.

I do agree that the babies they had at the end was unnecessary, and just adds an awkwardness to the last scene that wasn't needed.

But my score? "THRESHOLD" is a solid 8.25.
 
A couple of exchanges I got a kick out of. I want to post them before I forget.


Chakotay: "There are traces of human DNA. It's them. But I have to admit, I'm not sure which one is the Captain."

Tuvok: "The female, obviously."

Three baby salamanders emerge from a hole in the sand and slither off into the water.

Chakotay: "I don't know how I'm going to enter this into the log."

Tuvok: "I look forward to reading it."


Janeway: "I've thought about having children, but I must say I never considered having them with you."

Paris: "Captain, I'm sorry. I, I don't know what to say, except I don't remember very much about, er, you know"

Janeway: "What makes you think it was your idea? Sometimes it's the female of the species that initiates mating."


And, of course, this isn't complete without the version of "Threshold" that was done in TAS style! :devil:

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Now, I've really covered all the bases! Looking forward to when we get to "Tuvix", the next infamous episode! That'll be interesting too. In a completely different way! But we'll save that for when we get there.

If you want to hear me say it, I'll say it: there are other episodes that I found worse than "Threshold". There, I said it. "And the Children Shall Lead" from TOS comes to mind, so does "Justice" from TNG. Then there's "Let He Who Is Without Sin" from DS9, which I literally have only watched once ever. When it first aired in 1996 and that's it. So, it'll be interesting when I get there too.
 
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And then somebody else a few years later seemingly tried the warp 10 experiment again and also got salamandered but this time irreversibly. Ah well, he or she is happy on the farm.
 
I wonder why they didn't have Data or some other artificial lifeform pilot a Warp 10 shuttle. Even if he couldn't take passengers, he could get some major exploration in.
 
"Meld"

Suder's finally here! Tom Paris' mini-arc which leads up to flushing out Jonas starts! And what I am going to start this review off with? Neelix getting on my nerves again! Pestering Tuvok and saying he'll never rest until gets Tuvok to smile. And the pestering is starting to border on harassment. I'm on Tuvok's side.

But enough with that, and onto the real hook. Torres calls Tuvok down to Engineering, where a grisly murder has been uncovered. I already knew what was coming, since I know the episode. But for someone watching this the first time, it would probably be a sharp turn from out of left field.

Aside from Alien: Resurrection, I don't think I've ever seen Brad Dourif play anyone who wasn't crazy. And even in the Alien movie, what he was doing was crazy (helping in trying to weaponize Xenomorphs). And he delivers the crazy in this episode. It's like the role of Suder was written with Brad Dourif specifically in mind. Tuvok is completely perplexed when Suder gives the reason for killing someone as, "I didn't like the way he looked at me."

I think the Doctor is right. We evolved from predators. Suder can't repress those animal instincts. As soon as someone looks at him wrong, he kills them. He's out in the wild. He's in the jungle. To be honest, I'm surprised he managed to hold out until the middle of the second season. An assessment that Tuvok ultimately agrees with.

I'll also say I think Chakotay made a mistake in not telling Janeway, Tuvok, and the Doctor about Suder much earlier. I understand that Chakotay didn't want to make things difficult for his fellow Maquis crew, but Suder's issues didn't have anything to do with that. I don't fault the episode, though. This is a character flaw specific to Chakotay in that he was trying too hard to have all the Maquis crew's backs.

After Tuvok mind-melds with Suder, Tuvok's feelings begin to come to the surface. At first, it's thinking Suder deserves more punishment than what is feasible on Voyager. Janeway knows Tuvok well enough that she immediately picks up on it.

A great fake-out when Tuvok goes to the Holodeck and Neelix acts super-Neelix-y. What makes it such an effective fake-out is that Neelix is already so over-the-top that going slightly moreso doesn't even make anyone think anything is going on. On the surface, it seems like he's just being more annoying than usual. Then Tuvok does what a small part of him has probably wanted to do all along, and strangles Neelix to death! Computer, end program.

When Tuvok sees Suder in the brig, Suder talks about how appealing violence is, since it doesn't require logic and how liberating it feels. He tries his hardest to make it sound good. The only appeal I see is when an aggressor is stopped and can no longer cause you harm. Here, Suder is the aggressor. He never stops to think about how "liberating" or "satisfying" it would feel for someone innocent to be on the other side of said violence. How liberating is that? Liberating maybe because you can do whatever you want. Satisfying you can do whatever you want. But that's it. On a starship, he most certainly can't do whatever he wants. Maybe that's made killing someone on Voyager feel that much more satisfying to do, because it was harder.

After the exchange with Suder, Tuvok goes to his quarters, relieves himself of duty, and smashes everything in said quarters. We don't see any of it and when Janeway visits him, we see the state Tuvok has left things in. Symbolizing Tuvok's own wrecked, mental state. I had an easier time buying Tuvok's ravaging of his quarters here than Odo's in DS9's "Crossfire". Though it's interesting that the two security chiefs wreck their quarters in such close proximity, airdate-wise. Tuvok has had over a century of repressed violent emotion which is being influenced, albeit unintentionally, by a murdering psychopath.

The camera pans across everything Tuvok has done, then stops on the shadow of Tuvok, like something Alfred Hitchcock would do if he were directing. That was a great shot. Even better is we can't see Tuvok himself. He's hiding in a corner, unseen, as he tells Janeway not to enter. As if he's some hoodlum on the street, lurking around the corner. It's genuinely scary when Tuvok tells Janeway not only how many martial arts he knows but how many ways he can kill someone using just a finger. I bet Suder would love to know all the ways he could kill someone using these methods. Then Tuvok rises, has sweat all over him, veins bulging, and his eyes look like those of a killer. None of it is special effects. Just really good makeup and really good acting. Tim Russ nails it.

Then Tim Russ nails it again in the next scene. When Tuvok is in Sickbay, with his emotional suppression removed and his telepathic abilities blocked, he becomes intrigued with the primitive Vulcan state, tells Janeway she's wrong for letting Suder live, and offers to kill Suder for her. He also says that Humans disgust him. There's a kernel of truth in everything he says. I think the normal Tuvok would think that Suder needs to pay for his consequences. I do think that Humans (in general) annoy Tuvok to some degree, he puts up with them at worst and tolerates them at best in a lot of cases. Things he'd never say with his inhibitions intact.

In the middle of the night, Tuvok sneaks out of Sickbay, and heads off to kill Suder. The line of the show is when Suder says, "I'm ready to die, but are you ready to kill?" It's as if Suder is goading Tuvok to kill. Tuvok tries to rationalize it as Suder deserves to die, but Suder says that once Tuvok kills he'll want to keep killing and he'll have to give up his place in civilized society. I think Suder can't stand the thought of being confined to Voyager for rest of his life, wants to be killed, and thinks that if he's going down, then he's going to take the person who Tuvok was up until this episode down with him.

Fortunately, in the end, Tuvok doesn't kill Suder, Tuvok recovers, and Suder is permanently confined to his quarters. This episode was a great vehicle to show off Tim Russ' acting range. Something he doesn't get to do too often as Tuvok. It asks tough questions and doesn't give easy answers. I give it a 10.

I should mention something about the Paris sub-plot, beyond the fact that it exists. He really leans into the Bad Boy image with the betting pool at the pool table. It was a good move not to have Jonas in this episode. On repeat viewings it would've made things too on-the-nose that both were connected.
 
I've never got the hatred for Threshold. Sure it's hokey, but there are farrrr worse in Trek history. And at least it tried to do something.
Hell, there are FAR worse episodes within just VOYAGER itself. ("FALSE PROFITS", "FAVORITE SON", "THE FIGHT", "SPIRIT FOLK", "FURY", and more.)
 
Hell, there are FAR worse episodes within just VOYAGER itself. ("FALSE PROFITS", "FAVORITE SON", "THE FIGHT", "SPIRIT FOLK", "FURY", and more.)
All the other infamous episodes. I won't say what I think until I get to them. But one that you didn't list that I really don't like is "The Disease". I'd take any of the episodes you listed over that one.

"Threshold" never pushed me to the point where I'd be resisting the urge to skip parts of the episode or fast-forward. "The Disease" is a different story.
 
Threshold" never pushed me to the point where I'd be resisting the urge to skip parts of the episode or fast-forward. "The Disease" is a different story.
Basically, if an episode focuses on Harry Kim and it's not Timeless, it's probably not worth watching.
 
It's not as bad as The Disease, Favorite Son, or Nightingale (all of these are episodes I have a specific vendetta against) but it does nonetheless make my Voyager Writers Quiz. Which isn't an honor.
 
"Threshold" is definitely over-hated, it's literally just a slightly less boring version of TNG's "Identity Crisis". The two parts people hate - warp ten and the salamanders - are the parts that save the episode for me, since it's just half an hour of Tom going "uuugh" in sickbay otherwise.
 
I'm feeling a little rusty. Once I realized I hit the 50%-mark with DS9 and B5, I put together Top 10 Lists for both series over there, which took some time, and then -- after that -- I spent two weeks comparing both series in a separate thread. 18 months after starting these (re-)watch threads, I came to the conclusion that I like both series equally. Throw in work, some editing projects I've been doing on the side (that I can't talk about), Thanksgiving, and some other things IRL... next thing I know, it's been over a month since the last episode of VOY that I re-watched. But now I'm back at it.

"Dreadnought"

Two episodes in close proximity where Torres has to deal with AI. Between "Prototype" and "Dreadnought", I have a slight preference for "Dreadnought". This episode ties back to Chakotay and Torres' Maquis days, when Torres captured and reprogrammed a Cardassian Dreadnought to target Cardassians instead of the Maquis, then it disappeared in the Bad Lands and ended up in the Delta Quadrant. The Dreadnought is stubborn, closed-minded, and can't accept it's in the Delta Quadrant. Torres reprogrammed the Dreadnought too well, and when Torres tries to fix it, all the Dreadnought can essentially say is "I can't do that." Just like HAL-9000.

On the surface, this might seem like a regular, ordinary episode, but there's more to it than just a surface-level observation. This episode picks up on other Voyager Lore as well. Kellan, the leader of the world the Dreadnought is targeting, initially thinks Voyager sent it as a weapon after them. Janeway says she's aware of what the Kazon have been telling other planets about Voyager. I still think it's absurd that anyone would believe anything the Kazon have to say. They might as well be listening to the National Enquirer, but then I think of the times we live in and realize that's more realistic than I'd like. Nothing like propaganda to keep people apart. Luckily, Kellan is able to realize Janeway's true nature and that she isn't anything like the Kazon say. Especially by the time Janeway says she's willing to sacrifice Voyager to save them.

There's also the Jonas Storyline. Jonas is trying to talk directly to Seska, but all he gets is some Kazon lieutenant. First Jonas told them about the Warp 10 Drive, now he's telling them about the Dreadnought. They must think Jonas is pretty ridiculous by now, which is probably why they're really delegating the task of communicating with Jonas to a subordinate.

Meanwhile, Paris keeps showing up late. He's getting into fights. Chakotay's stepping in and speaking to him more. And, on top of all of that, Paris has to keep up his act even when talking to Torres, as she wants to know what's going on. That must be tearing Paris up inside not to be able to tell her (or anyone else) anything. Knowing what happens later, I read what Paris says to Janeway later on completely different. "Thanks for everything." I read it as "Thanks for trusting me enough to task me with the top-secret mission of discovering a double-agent in our midst."

There's a nice scene where Tuvok decides to stay at Janeway's side when everyone else abandons ship as Janeway prepares to sacrifice Voyager. It shows that Tuvok's place is at Janeway's side even to the potential very end. On the other hand, a small part of me was also thinking, "If Janeway and Tuvok go down, then there go the two people who can back up Paris and set the story straight about what's really been going on with him!"

Ensign Wildman is seen at the beginning of the episode, trying to figure out a name for her unborn child... and, for the first time in a while, the Doctor trying to think of a name for himself is brought up again.

There's a lot that's worked into the episode, and it has already had a strong foundation with a reliable premise. The Dreadnought is basically a smart missile, and something I could've seen being encountered on TOS. Overall, I give this episode an 8.
 
"Death Wish"
1st Portion of the Review

When I re-watched DS9's "Q-Less" in 2024, I said that I thought Q didn't fit in on DS9. However, I think he fits in pretty well on VOY. Kate Mulgrew and John DeLancie have great on-screen chemistry. Nothing matches Picard defending Humanity to Q, but that doesn't mean I can't find Q's playfulness with the Voyager crew as amusing as with the Enterprise-D crew.

I don't know it for a fact, but I've long thought that Gene Roddenberry called the character Q because he wanted it to stand for Question. Q was constantly questioning Humanity. Constantly challenging it. What I like about "Death Wish" is that it turns the question in the other direction. The question is pointed directly at the Q themselves. Can someone who's otherwise immortal end their life if they have nothing left to live for, nothing new to experience, nothing more to look forward to, and nothing more to say?

Normally, I'm against people ending their lives, taking their lives, etc. In the case of Quinn, the question is somewhat murkier, because he's existed the equivalent of how many countless lifetimes? To be totally honest, this runs counter to everything I believe in. But this episode makes a strong case for Quinn seeking euthanasia. So, I won't hold what happens in this episode against it just because I disagree with it.

Watching Quinn is great. He seems eccentric. He's spent 300 years thinking of his last words to the Q Continuum. And he's out of practice after being exiled to an asteroid for all that time. He makes all the male crew disappear by accident. Then he can't figure out what to do. Then he wonders to himself about who has more experience with Humans, and then John DeLancie's Q shows up right on cue.

I really don't like when Q blames everything on Janeway initially by saying, "This is what happens when you have a woman in the Captain's seat." Really, really low-hanging fruit. I know they were going for cheap laughs but come on. This makes Q sound like Al Bundy from Married With Children! It makes him sound like he should be hanging out with the Kazon. But anyway...

After an exchange between Q and Quinn, Voyager's sent to all kinds of places. The Big Bang, the microscopic world, and on a Christmas Tree. It was a lot of fun to see Voyager being zipped around to all kinds of places the crew never thought they'd be. That last part is especially amusing to me, considering I'm writing this in a December. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, or whatever else applies!

Janeway is very understandably fed up with the tug-of-war between Q and Quinn. Since Quinn has requested asylum, Janeway says she'll hold a hearing to determine whether or not to grant Quinn asylum. This is another opposite of TNG. In "Encounter at Farpoint" and "All Good Things", Humanity is on trial. There's a hearing. In this episode, it's Quinn who's the subject of a hearing.

Leaving it here for now, because it's getting so late it's early. To be continued...
 
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"Death Wish"
2nd Portion of the Review

The hearing was both fun to watch and thought-provoking. Q calling himself to the stand gave him a chance to ham it up while also having a point: that Quinn was locked away to save him from himself. Then he brings Riker, Sir Isaac Newton, and a hippie forth as people who benefitted from Quinn's help. Helping Sir Isaac Newton is historically significant. Helping Riker's ancestor, well, that's just something Q's glad about so he could later be able to toss insults at Riker. As far as the hippie: first of all, groovy. Second, this is where you can tell Baby Boomers wrote this episode! "Woodstock!" Although maybe I'm showing my bias here because as anyone who knows me knows, my favorite decade for music is the '80s (even though I went to high school in the '90s). I don't deny the cultural significance of Woodstock for the 20th Century and now into the 21st, but I'm less sure about by the 24th Century. But it was still some nice comic relief.

I have to say something about Riker. Earlier, when Q said he was hoping Riker would get this command: I have some thoughts about that. Voyager was lost on Stardate 48308. Generations is on Stardate 48632. So, Riker was still on the Enterprise-D during "Caretaker". But, even if he wasn't, for the "you can't go by stardates!" crowd, I think TNG's "Pegasus" guaranteed it would be a while before Riker would be offered a command again, when everything with Admiral Pressman came to the surface. With no command being offered to him and all of his friends going to the Enterprise-E (except Worf), he probably figured he might as well be First Officer there. In my head-canon, Riker was on Starfleet's list of candidates to become Captain of Voyager, while the ship was being constructed, but then "Pegasus" messed that up and Janeway rose to the top of the list.

Tuvok does a great job defending Quinn. At least as good as he can, saying that to keep Quinn alive would mean to keep him in the iceberg he's been confined to. He points out the hypocrisy of executing rogue members of the Q Continuum while claiming that Quinn taking his life would disrupt everything. And I forgot that Tuvok was against what he was defending, because he was just that good at defending it. It was a masterstroke to not reveal what Tuvok really thought until after he'd requested a recess, when it looked like Janeway might rule in John DeLancie Q's favor.

Unlike "Encounter at Farpoint", which was a kangaroo court, this part of "Death Wish" actually feels like a serious courtroom episode, even though it deals with seemingly omnipotent beings. I appreciate that Quinn went out of his way to tell Tuvok that the Q aren't as omnipotent as they say. Just more advanced. There are echoes of TNG's "Who Watches the Watchers" when Picard tried to explain to the Mintakans that he wasn't a God. John DeLancie's Q, OTOH, "reformed" or not, would relish telling primitive civilizations who would fall for it that he's a God.

Quinn offers to show Janeway and Tuvok what the Q Continuum is like. When I first watched this episode in 1996, my thought was "This is what the Q Continuum looks like?!" I was disappointed that it looked like some minimalist place in the middle of nowhere. Now, I appreciate the minimalist approach because it's depicting only what's necessary to get to the point. Everything's been said, everything's been done, no one talks to each other, it's just boredom. Then Quinn tried to get Q on his side, by saying that Q inspired him. Quinn sees right through Q overcompensating by being a "Born Again Q". After the trip to the Continuum, Janeway says they'll be in recess until she makes a decision. Q and Quinn exchange glances that communicate things without the need for dialogue. Q understands what Quinn is saying about him.

Q tries to find a way to negotiate. He promises the Q Continuum won't imprison Quinn again. Then he tries to bribe Janeway with getting her home. When Q makes himself appear in bed with Janeway, it hits differently than with Picard. Obviously, since Janeway is the opposite sex instead of the same sex. But then he takes a step even further and tells Janeway to forget about Mark. That's crossing a line, even for Q. But Janeway tells him to leave, and he respects Janway's wishes. I don't think he'd respect Picard's wishes as easily. Q loved to taunt Picard endlessly. He'd only stop because he'd get bored. OTOH, he'll only go up to a certain point with Janeway. He stops because he's actually listening to her, as much as he can. This might be a hot take, but between Picard, Sisko, and Janeway, I think Janeway knows how to stand up to Q the best out of the three of them.

Janeway goes out of her way to look at the Q Continuum's position and Quinn's position before ruling in favor of the rights of the individual and that Quinn shouldn't have to have immortality forced upon him. Q turns Quinn into a mortal and Janeway implores Quinn to savor the experience of mortal life. Janeway doesn't see this, but Quinn's already convinced himself there's nothing left to experience. To convince Quinn that there's anything more to experience for him would be a whole other argument, and he's at a point where one speech isn't going to change his mind about something he's thought about for centuries.

This is where the glances between Q and Quinn earlier pay off. Q provides Quinn a chemical to commit suicide and end his life. Q stops being a reformed Q and is prepared to give the Continuum hell. This is a way of setting up a story arc for Q in VOY that's separate from TNG. As far as Quinn, I agree with his point that he would've only been pretending to fit in on Voyager.

Overall, "Death Wish" is one of my Top Three Favorite Q Episodes. Along with "Q Who" and "Tapestry". I like that the Q were the ones who were challenged instead of being the challengers. It was a nice change of pace. I give it a 10.
 
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Good review. "DEATH WISH" is one of my favorite episodes of VOY, period. It really gives a great perspective on living a life with meaning and purpose.

I am in favor of suicide, if the person so chooses. Would I prefer them to do it? No. But at the end of the day, it IS their life, and if we are a society that is supposed to respect a person's right to choose for themselves, then we have to accept that they may decide to do that, even if we don't agree with that choice.

Another way to put it: we respect a woman's right to their body regarding having an abortion. Why would this be any different? Quinn's body is his own (in fact, our own bodies are truly the only things we own), and if he decides to end it with suicide, that is his right.


I do have to disagree with you about Q fitting in well on VOY. Had he just appeared here, I would agree with you. But each subsequent visit seems to neuter him more and more. (Doesn't help that each Q story on VOY after this gets progressively worse.)
 
Some things going on IRL. So, this is going to be it for 2025. I'll be back at it again in 2026. Happy Holidays!
 
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