What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[King Bob!]

At this point, I think I've rewatched the first season of TOS more than any other season from any Star Trek series. It's like an endless spring for my brain to drink from.

The older I get the more I appreciate TOS, and it has always been my favorite. The bolded is pretty much the main reason why, there was so much creativity in play that much of the later shows are totally devoid of.

The original Star Trek tickled my brain in a way no other Trek show has come close to.

 

[drt]

edit to add: come to think of it, my kid's college requires their students to take a math placement test before letting them enroll in their college math class or classes, or lots of the science classes. Taking at least some math is a college graduation requirement even for students who ace the placement test.

lol, my first day of college registration (forty years ago, yikes!) I had to take a math test, a chemistry test and write an essay before I could register for any of those classes. I think I knew about the math and English placement exams, but chemistry was a complete surprise - sure made for a long day…

The older I get the more I appreciate TOS, and it has always been my favorite. The bolded is pretty much the main reason why, there was so much creativity in play that much of the later shows are totally devoid of.

The original Star Trek tickled my brain in a way no other Trek show has come close to.

TOS is also my favorite by far, for many of the same reasons as folks have stated.

I’d also add one more: it’s never boring, even the “bad” episodes are usually still totally entertaining.

 

[Firebird]

We're not doomed. If you don't watch the news, everything is great.

“The planet is fine; the people are fucked.” - George Carlin

 

[Lord Garth]

Continuing a discussion from here and here, because I didn't want it to go off-topic.

I just watched the first 10 minutes of the first episode. The hairstyles and fashions are very obviously early-'80s, but disregarding that and looking at the way it was shot: there are a lot of long shots, the camera follows the actors a lot, and there's overlapping dialogue when characters are arguing with each other or talking over each other while arguing.

If what I saw was any indication, then it's pretty clear that Hill Street Blues was trying to look more like a movie. Especially a New Hollywood type of movie. Except on television. I would say this is very different for television at the time.

Most '80s shows I've seen don't look like that however. Not including sitcoms, I'm thinking of things like The A-Team or Knight Rider or Spencer for Hire or MacGuyver. Things like that. Compared to those, TNG (including Season 1) doesn't look dated. Some of the writing in the first half of the first season, where you can tell it was very obviously written by Gene Roddenberry does seem dated but, once we get past those episodes, it just seems like normal(-ish) '80s TV. Not the cutting edge (although it seems we all agree the visuals were cutting edge for TV), but taking a '60s show (TOS) and updating it for the '80s.

The writing for Hill Street Blues does seem better than a lot of '80s TV I've seen, but I don't think it's typical of '80s TV.

For TNG, once it drops a lot of the TOS feel, I'd say TNG feels more typical of '80s TV, from what I've seen, during the second and third season. TNG never completely loses the '80s feel, but it starts to seem more '90s from "The Best of Both Worlds" on.

If I were an adult in 1987 and had already seen Hill Street Blues, I'm pretty sure I would've liked the show a lot. What I've sampled seems very good. But I wouldn't have expected TNG to be like that, nor would I have asked for it. Star Trek and Hill Street Blues were aiming for different things and trying to be different things.

Yes, it's true, TNG did try to be an ensemble and had some ongoing story threads, but TV was moving in that direction in general, so it would've been like that no matter what. Even though, yes, I'm sure Hill Street Blues blazed a trail. Although there were other shows doing that as well, even before HSB in primetime. Dallas, Dynasty, even a sitcom called Soap.

 

[Warp Core Breach]

Continuing a discussion from here and here, because I didn't want it to go off-topic.

I just watched the first 10 minutes of the first episode. The hairstyles and fashions are very obviously early-'80s, but disregarding that and looking at the way it was shot: there are a lot of long shots, the camera follows the actors a lot, and there's overlapping dialogue when characters are arguing with each other or talking over each other while arguing.

If what I saw was any indication, then it's pretty clear that Hill Street Blues was trying to look more like a movie. Especially a New Hollywood type of movie. Except on television. I would say this is very different for television at the time.

Most '80s shows I've seen don't look like that however. Not including sitcoms, I'm thinking of things like The A-Team or Knight Rider or Spencer for Hire or MacGuyver. Things like that. Compared to those, TNG (including Season 1) doesn't look dated. Some of the writing in the first half of the first season, where you can tell it was very obviously written by Gene Roddenberry does seem dated but, once we get past those episodes, it just seems like normal(-ish) '80s TV. Not the cutting edge (although it seems we all agree the visuals were cutting edge for TV), but taking a '60s show (TOS) and updating it for the '80s.

The writing for Hill Street Blues does seem better than a lot of '80s TV I've seen, but I don't think it's typical of '80s TV.

For TNG, once it drops a lot of the TOS feel, I'd say TNG feels more typical of '80s TV, from what I've seen, during the second and third season. TNG never completely loses the '80s feel, but it starts to seem more '90s from "The Best of Both Worlds" on.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Hill Street pioneered the whole cinema verite style for American TV shows back in 1981, not to mention a real ensemble cast that carried on through years. It was pioneering, interesting, and very human. Great cast top to bottom. There was nothing like it at the time, and there have been many imitators since, so if you get around to watching it through enjoy.

 

[bdub76]

Yes, it's true, TNG did try to be an ensemble and had some ongoing story threads, but TV was moving in that direction in general, so it would've been like that no matter what. Even though, yes, I'm sure Hill Street Blues blazed a trail. Although there were other shows doing that as well, even before HSB in primetime. Dallas, Dynasty, even a sitcom called Soap.

There were some pretty well written shows in the 80s. Moonlighting comes to mind. China Beach is really good. Beauty and the Beast was romantasy before it became a thing. Wiseguy had some pretty good story arcs. It was serial before that was a thing.

But I'm not sure if I'd say TNG was an 80s show or a 90s show since it bridge both decades. The 90s gave us even more interesting dramas like such as ER and the Sopranos. My So Called Life was also ground breaking. NYPD Blue was also good. West Wing was outstanding. TV really elevated in the 90s, so even though DS9 elevated Trek, it had steep competition by time it came out.

 

[bdub76]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Hill Street pioneered the whole cinema verite style for American TV shows back in 1981, not to mention a real ensemble cast that carried on through years. It was pioneering, interesting, and very human. Great cast top to bottom. There was nothing like it at the time, and there have been many imitators since, so if you get around to watching it through enjoy.

Ever watch Cracker? Shows like Hill Street Blues were more likely ITV or BBC shows at that time. The British have a lot more raw cops shows than we did.

 

[Lord Garth]

But I'm not sure if I'd say TNG was an 80s show or a 90s show since it bridge both decades.

For the purposes of my post, I was sticking to the '80s seasons of TNG and comparing it to shows made during the '80s.

The '90s are a whole other thing. Though, when I compare DS9 and VOY to other shows, I stick with the sci-fi genre. Babylon 5 (which I'm in the middle of watching right now), The X-Files (which I've seen even though it's been a while), and Stargate would be fair-game even though I haven't seen much of Stargate and am not a fan.

My So-Called Life is great.

Even though they started in 1999, I think of The Sopranos and The West Wing as really being '00s shows. For the most part, The Sopranos wasn't even on yet when DS9 was on. The West Wing started a few months after DS9 ended.

 

[Lord Garth]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Hill Street pioneered the whole cinema verite style for American TV shows back in 1981, not to mention a real ensemble cast that carried on through years. It was pioneering, interesting, and very human. Great cast top to bottom. There was nothing like it at the time, and there have been many imitators since, so if you get around to watching it through enjoy.

You can consider Hill Street Blues to be part of my Watch List, if I can find somewhere to watch it for free. If I can't, then I'll at least pay to watch the rest of the first season on Amazon.

There were some pretty well written shows in the 80s. Moonlighting comes to mind. China Beach is really good. Beauty and the Beast was romantasy before it became a thing. Wiseguy had some pretty good story arcs. It was serial before that was a thing.

I've never heard of Moonlighting or China Beach, but I'll give them a look some time. I remember my uncle watching Beauty and the Beast, but then I'd go into the other room whenever he'd put it on. You can blame it on I was eight.

The only reason I know about Wiseguy is because I know Jonathan Banks was in it. One day I was looking up other stuff Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul actors had done.

 

[Warp Core Breach]

You can consider Hill Street Blues to be part of my Watch List, if I can find somewhere to watch it for free. If I can't, then I'll at least pay to watch the rest of the first season on Amazon.

I was asking around if it is streaming anywhere earlier but I can't find a source as yet. If I do I'll let you know.

 

[Lord Garth]

I was asking around if it is streaming anywhere earlier but I can't find a source as yet. If I do I'll let you know.

Thanks!

 

[GhoulEddie74]

My parents loved Wiseguy when I was a kid.

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[Jayson Poorknees]

Except when warp drive was unraveling all of space time. They cared about that until something more important came up. (Which was... Two episodes later?)

Well they had it where Picard basically had to ask permission from Starfleet to go past Warp 5. Then I guess the logic in later seasons is they fixed the warp cores or something meaning warp drive no longer caused a danger to subspace. I recall the writers specifically talking about that when it came to Voyager.

 

[Jayson Poorknees]

IMO it is Kirk/Spock/Bones and the actors playing them which elevates TOS above all Trek. Even if the story is bad the characters are always fun to watch. What I like about TNG is that it's no-conflict rule, which is bad idea 99% of the time but they made it work. I give lots of credit to Michael Pillar.

 

[knightgrace]

On 'Beauty and the Beast ' Linda Hamilton was drop dead gorges...

Keep in mind that she was the original Sarah Connor in Terminator... her acting in 'Terminator: Dark Fate' , well somebody did a great deal of thinking on how the character evolved.

 

[Tallguy]

On 'Beauty and the Beast ' Linda Hamilton was drop dead gorges...

Keep in mind that she was the original Sarah Connor in Terminator... her acting in 'Terminator: Dark Fate' , well somebody did a great deal of thinking on how the character evolved.

It's an odd world where Hamilton has to be connected to Terminator from B&tB. It's like saying "Shatner was so good on T.J. Hooker. Did you know he was the original Kirk on Star Trek?"

Hill Street Blues: I would love to see a Star Trek that was filmed like St. Elsewhere.

Well they had it where Picard basically had to ask permission from Starfleet to go past Warp 5. Then I guess the logic in later seasons is they fixed the warp cores or something meaning warp drive no longer caused a danger to subspace. I recall the writers specifically talking about that when it came to Voyager.

Right. Which makes the whole climate change argument fall apart. There is nothing more important than saving the climate. Except apparently -- everything else.

Imagine if they had actually bought into it and this actually somehow hampers the whole post-scarcity magic of the Federation? How many episodes had been tied to "Captain's log: The Enterprise is delivering Whatdayacallititinium to the colony of Big Trouble IV where there has been a fatal outbreak of Mommyidontfeelgood-86. While we wait I will be trying the new holodeck simulation Mr. La Forge has designed called 'What Can Possibly Go Wrong?' Unfortunately due to warp speed limitations we are now the closest ship and even we may be too late."

On the other side of the trade-off could have been occasionally mentioning the ships and / or ENTIRE SECTIONS OF SPACE that were lost during the Dominion War due to having to suspend speed limitations due to the galactic emergency.

Instead Star Trek posits that there is no behavioral change necessary. (Which is surely not what the original metaphor intends?) It's entirely a technological solution. And a very rapid one at that (I think I read that the Enterprise-E engines were specifically space-time neutral.) I don't think Lower Decks even mentioned it. And Lower Decks mentions a LOT. Just in Boimler's rant in "Reflections" alone. (That might be one of my favorite episodes in all of Star Trek.)

 

[knightgrace]

Odd?

Odd?

You understate matters.

Actually I was doing for the younger generations ahead...

In time she will be forgotten, later rather than sooner.

Me? Much, much sooner...

I am very okay with this.

Humility before God, is a good thing. I am not meant to go around shouting "I am GREAT".
Others can do that.

Me?

I have decided that the Medical Tricorder as per 'The Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology ' is quite correct that the Medical Tricorder, came out first...then the Science Tricorder.

Why?

A specialized device to aid Medical diagnosis, is the correct way to go...

But where is the Science??

Easy; a human body provides the idea sensor array. How it deviates from the expected range of behaviors IS the Science. By having enough memory (Transtator based(before this memory in a handheld Medical device was inadequate)) 2147 entry. But busy having sufficient memory the major species of the Federation, can be represented, thus improving the odds of being correct is vastly improved. Be incorrect results in mass death events. Not good.

So the prototype Science Tricorder was merely a reprogrammed Medical Tricorder. Short range only.

The next mention of the Medical Tricorder is when Duotronic circuits were added increasing range of function.

Therefore Duotronic systems are computationally a thousand times as fast, with the same amount of memory.

This 8s controversial because most people expect the exact opposite, that the Science Tricorder came first.

 

[B.J.]

I've never heard of Moonlighting

Dude...
This was basically Bruce Willis' big break. And the reason why people at the time were hesitant about a TV comedy actor doing a serious action movie role (Die Hard).

 

[1001001]

Let’s see if we can stick to Star Trek here.

We have several other forums, like SFF and TV&M where other shows can be discussed until your heart’s content.

Thanks!

 

[JonnyQuest037]

But I'm not sure if I'd say TNG was an 80s show or a 90s show since it bridge both decades. The 90s gave us even more interesting dramas like such as ER and the Sopranos. My So Called Life was also ground breaking. NYPD Blue was also good. West Wing was outstanding. TV really elevated in the 90s, so even though DS9 elevated Trek, it had steep competition by time it came out.

TNG is a unique case, since it was a 1980s show reusing a format from a 1960s show. So it had a certain retro quality baked in and was never the trailblazing series it liked to pretend it was. When you compare it to one hour dramas created in and for the 1980s like Hill Street Blues, St. Elsewhere, or L.A. Law, TNG lags pretty far behind.

By the 90s, sitcoms like Roseanne, Ellen, and Will and Grace were featuring regular gay characters while the best TNG and DS9 could do was science fiction metaphors for homosexuality like "The Outcast" and "Rejoined." TNG could've been a lot more groundbreaking than it was, but the powers that were chose not to be. David Gerrold wanted to do "Blood and Fire," a story that was a metaphor for the AIDS crisis that also featured a gay couple, in TNG's first season, but TNG and Roddenberry in particular chickened out on it.

Heck, even the ongoing character arcs that shows like Hill Street specialized in were anathema to TNG's standalone style storytelling. Remember when Dr. Pulaski told Geordi he could get artificial ocular implants in some second season episode or another? That was supposed to be the setup for an ongoing plotline for Geordi that also involved a romance with the Sonya Gomez character, but that went nowhere.

If you read The TNG Companion, it's FILLED with examples of more provocative & interesting sounding stories that the TNG writers & producers chickened out of. The bad guys in "Conspiracy" were originally supposed to be a rogue group of Starfleet officers who thought the Prime Directive was too restrictive, but they became space parasites instead because Starfleet officers could never REALLY go bad. Roddenberry didn't want Picard to lie to Moriarty at the end of "Elementary, Dear Data" to regain control of his ship, so that story just peters out instead of having an actual dramatic climax. The kid in "The Bonding" was originally supposed to recreate his dead mom on the Holodeck, but it became space aliens who did it instead because mourning isn't a thing in the 24th Century. They discussed replacing Commander Riker with his rebellious transporter duplicate Lt. Thomas Riker, but they chickened out of that because the TNG movies were right around the corner. And so on and so on.

Even at the end of "Attached" in the very last season of the show, the writers chickened out of getting Picard and Crusher romantically involved, something they'd teased since at least episode two, with Crusher literally saying "Or maybe we should be afraid" when Picard suggests exploring their feelings for each other. Honestly, "Maybe we should be afraid" could've been the mantra for the whole show. I like TNG, but most of the time it was a long way from TOS' "To boldly go" / "Risk is our business" vibe.