Spoilers Star Trek: Khan 1x03 - "Do Your Worst"

[Avro Arrow]

New episode drops Monday, September 22! Get it wherever you get your podcasts.

Episode description: Khan’s nascent colony celebrates its first pregnancy, but they’ve also suffered several losses to their number while a new threat to the entire planet reveals itself.

Runtime: 38 minutes

 

[Zarm]

A few random thoughts (trying to avoid any specific spoilers, but still general spoiler-ish musings.):

Richter's storyline: horrifying. Probably rightly so, but still.

So, the cranky historian is back on the Excelsior, as everyone pointed out she logically could be- so have we just discarded that episode 1 'cliffhanger,' then?

Why was there a recording of Khan's ending speech? Did he hit a button on the console in a medlab to begin recording for some reason?

They have clearly placed Chekov's Gun (not Pavel's) over the mantle, calling out that Ceti Alpha VI's destruction should (like, say, a supernova of Romulus' sun... ;-) ) come with plenty of warning and be millions of years away. Which all-but guarantees that its unnaturally-early demise will be dealt with during the series.

Finally, Marla had some character development I could buy. I liked her scene with Joachin a lot, and how she didn't try to sugarcoat or downplay things. (Although the idea of 'no one knows so it doesn't matter' I find philosophically abhorrent as a matter of principle- but that's a different discussion.)

I thought Khan's 'dialogue' to Ceti Alpha V was reminiscent of Janeway's conversations to Voyager in season 6; I liked the parallel there, and look forward to following this aspect.

Khan saying that his life belongs to his people- I don't necessarily buy that with the Khan from Space Seed or TWOK (though it does fit the 'family' focused take from Into Darkness). That kind of selfless, 'I am their leader and thus my own life and happiness are secondary to ensuring their safety' are the exact traits that make Kirk my favorite captain; rather than suggest he and Kirk are 'more alike than you might think,' deep-down, and approach leadership similarly, I would have preferred to see Khan have a contrasting style of leadership, rather than sort of becoming a 'fallen Kirk' in TWOK, who started out from a similar place but was molded by circumstances and madness into his opposite number, sacrificing his people for his vengeance. (I realize making Khan likable is a goal for the series, to heighten the tragedy of his descent, but I do think he could have a different, more 'kingly' style of leadership, a different attitude from a selfless Horatio Hornblower Starfleet-type, without automatically defaulting to 'authoritarian and cruel.' I just would've liked to see a different flavor there, as I don't see him coming from that same place).

Still, overall, this is the first of the three episodes where both Khan and Marla's development intrigued me with where things are going instead of irritating me by feeling like it conflicted with their established characters. I am looking forward to episode 4 following this one a lot more than I was looking forward to 3 after 2.

 

[David cgc]

So, the cranky historian is back on the Excelsior, as everyone pointed out she logically could be- so have we just discarded that episode 1 'cliffhanger,' then?

No, she was already doing her analysis on Excelsior at the end of episode 1, she just wanted them to stay on-station indefinitely in case she wanted to go back down to the camp. They’re still there, since the ship is passing through CA6’s meteor clouds, so presumably we’re still within the couple of days Sulu offered her to stay in orbit of CA5.

Khan saying that his life belongs to his people- I don't necessarily buy that with the Khan from Space Seed or TWOK (though it does fit the 'family' focused take from Into Darkness).

I think this is another one of those perception versus reality things I mentioned in last week’s thread. All his followers view Khan as the next best thing to God (literally), and Marla gently points out that contradiction when he tries to describe himself as being a humble servant-leader. And he’s certainly aware that he’s more of a king or sultan than he describes himself as to his biographer: there’s not just his line in TWoK about how his followers were sworn to live and die at his command and it was pointless to attempt to sway them away, but the way he talked to Richter during the episode with the tree. Demanding that he stand and walk on a broken ankle to test his compulsion to follow orders literally, then describing Richter as his possession.

 

[Zarm]

I think this is another one of those perception versus reality things I mentioned in last week’s thread. All his followers view Khan as the next best thing to God (literally), and Marla gently points out that contradiction when he tries to describe himself as being a humble servant-leader.

That's entirely fair. I suppose I just never saw Khan as viewing himself that way in relation to his people to begin with.

But the point is well-taken!

 

[Christopher]

And he’s certainly aware that he’s more of a king or sultan than he describes himself as to his biographer: there’s not just his line in TWoK about how his followers were sworn to live and die at his command and it was pointless to attempt to sway them away, but the way he talked to Richter during the episode with the tree. Demanding that he stand and walk on a broken ankle to test his compulsion to follow orders literally, then describing Richter as his possession.

Yes. I think that his image of the man he aspires to be is at odds with the heightened aggression, arrogance, and ruthlessness he was engineered with, or that he might have had anyway. He tries to be a good man, but is hamartically flawed.

It was inevitable we'd get to Ceti eels before long. But why couldn't they detect Richter's eel with a tricorder or the scanning table? I guess that is consistent with "Operation: Annihilate," where McCoy didn't discover the flying pancakes' invasive tendrils in their victims until he operated on or autopsied them, but it doesn't make a lot of sense in the context of what tricorders and sickbay beds are usually shown to be capable of, particularly in modern productions.

I can barely tell Ursula's and Marla's voices apart. I'm still not sure which one of them was comforting Joachim, though I'm moderately sure it was Marla. Listening closely, it seems that Marla's voice is a little more breathy and subdued, Ursula's a bit higher and edgier. But the timbres are remarkably similar.

 

[David cgc]

I can barely tell Ursula's and Marla's voices apart. I'm still not sure which one of them was comforting Joachim, though I'm moderately sure it was Marla. Listening closely, it seems that Marla's voice is a little more breathy and subdued, Ursula's a bit higher and edgier. But the timbres are remarkably similar.

Same. If I concentrate, I think there’s a little more of a drawl in Marla’s voice, but that might just be my imagination from the strong southern US accent the actress uses on For All Mankind.

 

[Christopher]

Same. If I concentrate, I think there’s a little more of a drawl in Marla’s voice, but that might just be my imagination from the strong southern US accent the actress uses on For All Mankind.

They both sound to me like they have equal drawl levels. That's part of the problem.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Khan saying that his life belongs to his people- I don't necessarily buy that with the Khan from Space Seed or TWOK (though it does fit the 'family' focused take from Into Darkness). That kind of selfless, 'I am their leader and thus my own life and happiness are secondary to ensuring their safety' are the exact traits that make Kirk my favorite captain; rather than suggest he and Kirk are 'more alike than you might think,' deep-down, and approach leadership similarly, I would have preferred to see Khan have a contrasting style of leadership, rather than sort of becoming a 'fallen Kirk' in TWOK, who started out from a similar place but was molded by circumstances and madness into his opposite number, sacrificing his people for his vengeance. (I realize making Khan likable is a goal for the series, to heighten the tragedy of his descent, but I do think he could have a different, more 'kingly' style of leadership, a different attitude from a selfless Horatio Hornblower Starfleet-type, without automatically defaulting to 'authoritarian and cruel.' I just would've liked to see a different flavor there, as I don't see him coming from that same place).

i fully disagree. Khan is engaging in a conceit that all tyrants entertain. Yes, he feels he is responsible for the entire community, or nation, if you would, but his wishes are those of the community. He is not being set up as a Kirk that has gone astray. It's the Fuehrerprinzip, wherein everyone is devoted to the leader and believe that he does the best for the whole.

 

[Zarm]

i fully disagree. Khan is engaging in a conceit that all tyrants entertain. Yes, he feels he is responsible for the entire community, or nation, if you would, but his wishes are those of the community. He is not being set up as a Kirk that has gone astray. It's the Fuehrerprinzip, wherein everyone is devoted to the leader and believe that he does the best for the whole.

That is certainly your prerogative. I just don't find Khan's attitude of selflessness, self-sacrifice, and service for his people- even if it is a delusion he is kidding/self-aggrandizing himself in, to be comparable to his attitude elsewhere. Even if he isn't that objectively, I don't think the Khan of TOS saw himself that way subjectively, either.

And likewise, while his people don't relate to him the way that the crew relates to Kirk, the way he relates to them and at least *claims* to feel about them, and obligation to them (rather than they to him), just strikes me as very Kirk-like.

While that may not be their actual relationship in practice either way, I just don't feel like the Khan we saw onscreen was under any such illusions to begin with.

 

[JD]

I finished up the episode this morning, and it was another good one.
Poor Richter, that was definitely not a good way to go. The Ceti Eels have always creeped me out in The Wrath of Khan, this definitely did not help that.
We definitely got to hear a bit more of Khan's darker, more aggressive side this week.
And we got some nice development of Khan and Marla's relationship.

It was inevitable we'd get to Ceti eels before long. But why couldn't they detect Richter's eel with a tricorder or the scanning table? I guess that is consistent with "Operation: Annihilate," where McCoy didn't discover the flying pancakes' invasive tendrils in their victims until he operated on or autopsied them, but it doesn't make a lot of sense in the context of what tricorders and sickbay beds are usually shown to be capable of, particularly in modern productions.

Yeah that seemed odd to me.

I can barely tell Ursula's and Marla's voices apart. I'm still not sure which one of them was comforting Joachim, though I'm moderately sure it was Marla. Listening closely, it seems that Marla's voice is a little more breathy and subdued, Ursula's a bit higher and edgier. But the timbres are remarkably similar.

Same. If I concentrate, I think there’s a little more of a drawl in Marla’s voice, but that might just be my imagination from the strong southern US accent the actress uses on For All Mankind.

Glad to know I'm not the only having this problem, there were a couple times I wasn't sure which one of them was talking until someone else referred to them by name.

 

[bdub76]

This one wasn't as bad as the last one, but it had a lot of unnecessary therapy sessions thrown in that were jarring.

And I agree with Christopher above that the two of the female leads sounded almost identical, and since their behavior and dialogue was also almost identical, it was difficult to tell them a part. The writing needs to be different enough between these two characters since they sound so much alike.

Also, the action scenes didn't work that well. This is a radio drama. I recommend checking out Big Finish audio dramas for how to properly write these. The action scenes came across as if they were written for the screen, rather than as a radio drama.

I'm honestly ready to DNF right here. I listened to episode two on the way to work, and it was not a good start to my morning. And I listened to episode three on the way home, and while it was better, I'm not getting much out of these audios.

 

[Avro Arrow]

So because of life, I didn't have a chance to listen to this one until today.

I didn't end up making a post in the episode 2 thread last week, but I liked episode 2 a lot less than I liked episode 1. A lot of that had to do with the action scenes in episode 2, which I don't really think translate well in an audio medium. It's just a bunch of sound effects, and then you have to wait for the action to end, and the characters to start talking about it, so that you know what even happened.

Happily, my enjoyment of episode 3 was back to episode 1 levels. There were still a couple action scenes in this one, but they at least seemed to be mercifully shorter than the ones last week. We got some good character development, and we are moving closer to where we know they're going to end up by TWOK. Interesting that the augments already know that Ceti Alpha VI is unstable, although that begs the question of why couldn't the Enterprise pick up those same readings, if someone was able to detect them on the surface of Ceti Alpha V with a hand scanner.

Sadly, the framing story still isn't doing anything for me at this point. This episode at least confirmed that Lear is indeed doing her cataloguing aboard Excelsior, so I still really don't feel that she's made it clear as to why she needs to stay in orbit to do that. I'm assuming it's going to be for story reasons, and something will happen in the final episode that will require them to be there. I trust the authors, so I assume there is going to be a payoff, but at this point it just seems that the framing story is mainly there to have Takei and Russ's names associated with the project.

The one major issue I had with this episode is a "me thing", rather than anything wrong with the story itself. I hate hate hate the "neck snapping" thing in entertainment. (Unless it is preceded by a backflip, in which case I will reluctantly give it a pass.) Yes, I hated it in Discovery season 1, and I hated it even more when the "previously on" then had to include that scene for the entire rest of the season. Based on the sound effect, I'm assuming that's what Khan did to Richter, and I didn't like it any better here. I get that Khan didn't want Ursula to bear the burden of killing him herself, but presumably she would have at least used some kind of painless lethal injection.

But other than that, I enjoyed this episode, and am looking forward to the next one.

Interesting. It might be geographic and they didn't sell any ads for the show in Canada, or because you don't have an advertising profile with that company since you haven't listened to podcasts before. This show seems to be using DAI (dynamic ad insertion) where the show has preset spots (beginning, end, and two "act breaks" in the middle in this case), but the podcast distributor automatically decides when you download the episodes which ads, how many, and in which breaks to drop them in, all based on what it knows about your habits from your IP address.

After not getting any ads in the first one, episode 2 and 3 both had a single ad at the beginning, both for Instacart. I don't mind that too much, and in fact am quite happy that they are appearing just at the beginning, rather than breaking the flow of the story itself for mid-episode ad placements.

 

[Christopher]

Interesting that the augments already know that Ceti Alpha VI is unstable, although that begs the question of why couldn't the Enterprise pick up those same readings, if someone was able to detect them on the surface of Ceti Alpha V with a hand scanner.

They said it appeared to be an instability that would take thousands of years to reach its peak.

Sadly, the framing story still isn't doing anything for me at this point. This episode at least confirmed that Lear is indeed doing her cataloguing aboard Excelsior, so I still really don't feel that she's made it clear as to why she needs to stay in orbit to do that. I'm assuming it's going to be for story reasons, and something will happen in the final episode that will require them to be there. I trust the authors, so I assume there is going to be a payoff, but at this point it just seems that the framing story is mainly there to have Takei and Russ's names associated with the project.

It is odd, when dropping in the occasional bit of narration from Marla's history tapes would be a good way to fill in the action and details that dialogue and sounds alone aren't enough to convey. That would give the frame sequences a clearer purpose.

The one major issue I had with this episode is a "me thing", rather than anything wrong with the story itself. I hate hate hate the "neck snapping" thing in entertainment. (Unless it is preceded by a backflip, in which case I will reluctantly give it a pass.) Yes, I hated it in Discovery season 1, and I hated it even more when the "previously on" then had to include that scene for the entire rest of the season. Based on the sound effect, I'm assuming that's what Khan did to Richter, and I didn't like it any better here. I get that Khan didn't want Ursula to bear the burden of killing him herself, but presumably she would have at least used some kind of painless lethal injection.

Oh, yeah, thanks for reminding me -- I was going to point that out myself. The "instant kill neck snap before you even know it's coming" move terrified me for decades, until I learned that it's basically a fantasy. Snapping the neck is not something you can do in an instant unless you have superhuman strength. And a broken neck isn't even necessarily fatal, unless the spinal cord damage is severe enough. Granted, Khan does have superhuman strength and presumably has trained himself to apply it precisely enough to kill, so I suppose it's not as entirely absurd as it is in the countless shows and movies where men and women of normal human strength can do it effortlessly. But it's still something he'd have to get just right on the first try, and I'd think there must have been more humane alternatives, given that they were in an infirmary with various drugs available.

 

[Zarm]

It would be funny if episode 4 started with Ursula coming in, "Oh what the hell, *that's* what you went with? That's going to completely ruin my autopsy, And I was at least going to like, smile and hold his hand as I put him out, and then kill him in his sleep! What is wrong with you, dude? ...My lord."

 

[Saul]

I liked this. There was almost too much going on, Khan accidentally stumbling onto the mechanics of how the worm creatures influence people, hints of Ceti Alpha VI about to explode and learning more about why people follow Khan and how they see him.