Spoilers Star Trek: Khan 1x08 - "Original Sin"

[Paul755]

Finally had a chance to catch up with the last 3 episodes.

At this point Lear not being Kali would be a surprise.

Something felt…off…about Khan wanting to leave his people to die on the planet while he escapes.

I’m guessing all/most of the “older” augments join what is sure to be an uprising by Ivan and Ursula to explain why all/most of the augments we see in WoK are of the younger variety. In fact, I’m gonna guess the uprising is what distracts Khan long enough for Delmonda to grab Kali and escape.

Very curious to see how they wrap it up.

 

[Zarm]

Yes... generally, to me, at least, the existence of the Elboreans itself has been the only twist or reveal that was in any way surprising in this series so far...

Which doesn't mean it hasn't been listenable, well-written, or well-performed! Just that it follows a very predictable path.

 

[JD]

I think the reason Khan is willing to abandon the rest of his people is because he's determined to Kahli somewhere safe, even if it means dooming the rest of his people. So at this point, I'm assuming Delmonda betraying him and taking Kahli and then Ivan, Urusala and the other older Augments turning on him is what finally breaks Khan and turns him into the person we saw in Wrath of Khan.

 

[Zarm]

I don't necessarily dispute that interpretation, but again... after establishing a specific set of core traits very consistently for 7 episodes, completely changing that characterization to its direct opposite- in a manner that can be extrapolated, but happens offscreen during a time jump- in the second-to-last episode just feels... narratively clumsy.

Like, I think you have correctly deduced what was intended by the authors, but arguably, at this stage in the game... you shouldn't have to deduce in order to figure out the progression of characterization of your main character. :-)

 

[NCC-73515]

At some point I do wanna watch Space Seed, then listen to these again, then watch WoK, and see if it changes my perception of WoK somehow...

 

[Lord Garth]

Just finished listening to "Original Sin".

I was wondering what the Original Sin was going to be. I thought it would be Khan's. Huge surprise when it turned out to be the Elboreans! When I think back to it, it makes perfect sense. The Elboreans, IIRC, don't show up until after Ceti Alpha VI explodes. It lines right up.

Delmonda is deeply disappointed that Khan hid his intentions, but it turns out Delmonda hid that he knew he was responsible for Ceti Alpha VI's destruction. They were both exiled and were kindred peoples. That explains why Delmonda genuinely wanted an alliance with Khan, even though Khan only saw strategic value.

Nice to "see" Madot being a mother-figure to Kali and raising her, and Khan being a father to Kali. I thought Kali would die before birth, so I'm glad she made it, so we can have this other side of Khan featured.

Khan wants to take the Venture, the ship the Augments and Elboreans have been building for the past five years, and never return to Ceti Alpha V. That makes sense. Khan wanted to build an empire on Earth, he was denied. He wanted to build an empire on Ceti Alpha V, he was denied again. Might as well try to see if the third time's a charm. At least from his perspective at this point.

I didn't see the return of Ivan coming!

Back in the Excelsior Timeframe, Lear finally realizes that Kirk couldn't have known about the impending destruction of Ceti Alpha VI and Tuvok tells Sulu there might've been visitors (the Elboreans) on Ceti Alpha V before the Reliant showed up. Lear beams down to the surface, and now I'm even more excited about what happens in the "present" storyline. Some records are about to be set straight.

This has me excited to put on the final installment right away. "Original Sin" had a lot of surprises that made a lot of sense when I thought about them. I give it a 9.

 

[Zarm]

I mean no offense, this is the second person to the thread I have seen being surprised at Ivan's return. Considering that he was Khan's brother that deeply betrayed him, that was exiled and not killed, with the climax coming up... You genuinely didn't see Ivan's return as the most obvious possible plot point? I am just curious, from that perspective - did you just think he would have died off screen, his exile last episode was an ending for the character?

Again, I know that text on the internet can't communicate tone, so I want to make it clear that I don't mean that in the condescending way that I am very sure it could come off. I'm just curious what the thought process was that rendered this an unexpected twist.

 

[Lord Garth]

I mean no offense, this is the second person to the thread I have seen being surprised at Ivan's return. Considering that he was Khan's brother that deeply betrayed him, that was exiled and not killed, with the climax coming up... You genuinely didn't see Ivan's return as the most obvious possible plot point? I am just curious, from that perspective - did you just think he would have died off screen, his exile last episode was an ending for the character?

Again, I know that text on the internet can't communicate tone, so I want to make it clear that I don't mean that in the condescending way that I am very sure it could come off. I'm just curious what the thought process was that rendered this an unexpected twist.

There was no thought process. Just, "Hey, Ivan's back!" I thought he'd die in the caves and wouldn't be able to sustain himself. Nothing more to it than that.

These are my real time, hot of the presses reactions after I've just listened to the episodes.

 

[Zarm]

Gotcha. And yeah, I meant no criticism whatsoever. I was just curious, basically if you had assumed he would have just died off screen or what have you. So, question answered!

And I quite enjoy reading your hot off the presses takes!

 

[NCC-73515]

First I thought: Oooh! Immediately followed by: Of course.