Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x10 - "New Life and New Civilizations"

[thribs]

Destruction is definitely great in Star Trek! I love watching planets blow up and be reduced to slag. Starship Troopers and Star Wars got nothing on Star Trek!

There would have to be a good reason for it. There has to be a reason the order exists.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I can accept the Planet Killer and other ships being immune because technobabble shielding etc. would allow that. But in the examples I mentioned, planetary shield were either not there or not an issue (specifically the Veridian thing).

Neutronium Hulls seem to do that.

Well I guess we can accept that the Enterprise is stronger than the average Star Destroyer from Star Wars. The Enterprise can output half the power of the sun, again more than enough to destroy a planet. Han Solo claims that the entire Imperial starfleet with more power than he's ever seen wouldn't be enough to destroy Alderaan.

I guess Vader's Devastator or Executor better start fleeing if it sees the 1701 unless Vader uses the Force to gain some kind of advantage.

I'm glad I picked the SNW Connie as my favorite iteration of Connies.

My God, did they UpScale everything in the SNW Timeline.

Bigger Connie, Bigger Reactor, MUCH MORE Phaser Power, MUCH Stronger Shields, Bigger Shuttle Bay.

What next, the Tractor Beam can lift up Continents?

 

[Trekker4747]

This would have been a terrible series finale.

TATV bad? Probably not, but MAN it would have really soured the entire series.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, not "TATV," but definitely not a highlight of the series.

 

[gweeps]

Not reverse time, but a quirk of cause not having to precede effect beyond the boundaries of strict linear time. The temple where she turned into the guardian (or whatever) itself seemed to stand outside time, in some kind of extra-dimensional space. What seems like a paradox doesn't always have to be when time is looked at as fluid.

Fine. But almost zero foreshadowing still made it seem rushed, and definitely convoluted.

If they had made Terrarium earlier and had Through the Lens of Tim in its place (because, again, no foreshadowing between these episodes of what was to come at all) I think the finale would make a smidge more sense. Maybe. Or at least had more emotional impact.

 

[The Wormhole]

And a subplot ripped off from "The Inner Light"?

Weird they crammed a whole "Inner Light" segment in there

Rather than The Inner Light, the whole Pike and Batel live happily ever after bit reminded me of this:

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There are entire Generations of Trekkies whose starting point wasn't TOS
Many of my generation started with TNG > DS9 > VOY > ENT and never bothering with TOS.
So our experience with Trek Continuity is vastly different.

The continuity is still pretty bad during the Berman era, arguably even worse. In TNG's first season alone you have Data claiming to have graduated the Academy a date from fourteen years in the future, and they claim they haven't had any contact with the Romulans for fifty years a handful of episodes after it was established Starfleet and Romulan ships were engaged in battle concurrently with the events of that episode (Angel One). To say nothing of other continuity issues throughout the other shows like Sisko claiming his father was dead in DS9's second season, then his father went on to guest star in several episodes later in the series. Or hell, when they aired, many fans claimed Voyager and Enterprise were the ones that had no respect for continuity and were making a mess of Trek canon, and now you're claiming they're the ones which got things right?

And stop claiming to be of a generation that never bothered with TOS. I am of the generation which grew up in the Berman era with TNG being my introduction to Star Trek. I've still found time to watch TOS and become familiar with it. Stop using your age as an excuse for never having watched TOS.

You think Starfleet would have some sort of psychological screening to watch out for this when choosing officers to lead their finest ship.

I mean, given how many Starfleet Captains and Admirals turn out to be evil, it's obvious Starfleet doesn't engage in any kind of psychological screening for its command officers at all.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

And stop claiming to be of a generation that never bothered with TOS. I am of the generation which grew up in the Berman era with TNG being my introduction to Star Trek. I've still found time to watch TOS and become familiar with it. Stop using your age as an excuse for never having watched TOS.

Okay, but it's true. Congrats, you watched it.
Others haven't.

 

[Nerys Myk]

And a subplot ripped off from "The Inner Light"?

Nah it was a different "ripoff". The what if scenario, not the live a different person's life scenario.

 

[TheAdmiralty]

IDK guys, I've been pretty down on this season but I liked this, best of this run. Not getting the continuity and world building gripes, you could do that with every episode, you just have to look past it if you're going to watch the show. They just don't care about world building and are doing a one off adventure every week. Which you could argue is actually the spirit of TOS, there were all kinds of things that didn't make sense week to week. "Continuity" really only became a thing in TNG.

The chess scene at the end definitely felt like the TOS Kirk/Spock dynamic. Hoping to see those two in a spinoff.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

TATV was its own level of badness. It was described as a love letter to the fans. Thankfully, no such association was made with this season finale.

I am not fully buying the reason for why this season didn't work. Season 2 of TNG was impacted by the writer's strike. They were working on a tighter schedule, yet they managed to make several very good episodes. I can't think of any episodes from SNW that were at the same level as The Measure Of A Man, A Matter of Honor, or Q Who.

 

[I am not Spock]

I liked the episode, but mostly for the Visitor-type use of a possible future. That could have been ... that should have been the entire episode. The mythos contrivance should have been left on the cutting room floor.

the Inner Light /Visitor part was my favourite part of the episode. Found it touching. Perfectly Star Trek. It should have been the whole episode.

Overall i really liked the episode though

 

[Trekker4747]

TATV was its own level of badness. It was described as a love letter to the fans. Thankfully, no such association was made with this season finale.

I am not fully buying the reason for why this season didn't work. Season 2 of TNG was impacted by the writer's strike. They were working on a tighter schedule, yet they managed to make several very good episodes. I can't think of any episodes from SNW that were at the same level as The Measure Of A Man, A Matter of Honor, or Q Who.

They also had 22 chances to make a good episode.

I'd argue The Sehlat Who Ate Its Tail and Terrarium are on some level equal to those.

 

[I am not Spock]

Buffy was a great show but I'm not sure why they think Buffy villains are a good fit for Star Trek. Speaking of the Buffyverse, wasn't there supposed to be a muppet episode or something? Doesn't sound like a good idea but it would probably be better than this.

The Kirk Spock Mind Meld Synchronicity might be the most lamely shoehorned contrivance I've ever seen in any form of media ever, not to mention the general disgustingness of it.

And LMAO at Pike's line, but at least it prompted a rewatch of:

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Had to give it a 1. It was maybe a 3 if they just cut out the Kirk/Spock thing, but that sullies the whole franchise and the people involved should be ashamed.

Buffy is one of my other favourite franchises, and it does seem someone on the SNW writing staff is a Buffy/Angel fan. Musicals, puppet episodes, and now we have Chosen Ones and First Evils

 

[PatB1974]

I love that Pelia talked about a "Time traveling Doctor!" I think that was my favorite part of the whole episode. I was hoping we'd get Gamble back somehow, even if it was a copy of him, kind of like the alternate Harry Kim.

 

[fireproof78]

Or hell, when they aired, many fans claimed Voyager and Enterprise were the ones that had no respect for continuity and were making a mess of Trek canon, and now you're claiming they're the ones which got things right?

Voyager and Enterprise have become fan darlings, suddenly beloved. Retconning is not just for TV shows it seems.

mean, given how many Starfleet Captains and Admirals turn out to be evil, it's obvious Starfleet doesn't engage in any kind of psychological screening for its command officers at all

Clearly.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Even then fans are able to wring together continuity fixes. Even here, the mind meld with Kirk wasn't a retrieval of information, so Spock's claim in Dagger of the Mind that he never performed an 'ancient Vulcan technique' on a human before (he didn't actually call it a mind meld) could still fit if we assume that Vulcans have more specific definitions for types of mind melds.

Eh. They didn't settle on "mind meld" until Spectre of the Gun. It was always called something different up until then: the mind touch, the mind fusion, the "ancient technique of the joining of two minds." No matter what, it's still this:

MCCOY: Spock, if there's the slightest possibility it might help.
SPOCK: I've never used it on a human, Doctor.
MCCOY: If there's any way we can look into this man's mind to see if what he's seeing is real or delusion
SPOCK: It's a hidden, personal thing to the Vulcan people, part of our private lives.

It's pretty danged clear that this was intended for it to be the first time Spock has joined minds with a human. Once he broke that barrier, he was open to doing it when necessary.

SPOCK: Captain, you are aware of the Vulcan technique of the joining of two minds.
KIRK: You think you can get through to that thing?
SPOCK: It's possible.
KIRK: Mister Spock, I know it's a terrible personal lowering of mental barriers but if there's a chance
SPOCK: I'll try.

In the SNW version of the history of these characters, that's all out the window. But in the original series, Dagger of the Mind was the first time. Even so, performing it on Kirk during Happy Hour was ridiculous and making that the basis of their friendship was, frankly, lazy. Spock and Kirk are allowed to develop a lifelong friendship on their own.

Kirk and Spock WERE established as being close though early on. I believe in the Man Trap (could be wrong though but it was a S1 episode), which was literally the first episode aired, Uhura tells Spock that Kirk is "the closest thing you have to a friend" (a line which punches harder now that it's canonically established that Uhura knew Spock far longer than Kirk did).

They played chess off duty in Where No Man Has Gone Before and Spock calls him "Jim" in that episode. They do seem to have a budding friendship and Spock is obviously a very trusted advisor, but "the closest thing you have to a friend" isn't in fact a friend. That came a little later. I mean, it was quick, but it wasn't like they had this super chummy bond from the jump. But by year two, absolutely they were like brothers. I'd even say by mid-first season they went from "closest thing to a friend" to legit friends. Once Nimoy took Spock from his cold alien persona to something a little warmer and fuzzier as he worked out the character.

No offense, but "canonically established that Uhura knew Spock far longer than Kirk did" means nothing to me, honestly. In Strange New Worlds, Uhura knew Spock longer than Kirk did. That's all we know. Canon is pointless since anyone running the IP can de-canonize anything with a stroke of a pen, even the original series if they feel like it. The Star Wars EU books were considered canon until they weren't. TAS was considered apocryphal until it wasn't. Nothing occurring in Strange New Worlds changes my perception of anything in the original series. I'd probably give it all more credence if this was produced by some of the original writers/producers of TOS, but 60 years later, it's just different people's take on someone else's characters. But that's just me.

Besides, it's pretty obvious that Spock has a bunch of friends in this show, so either they all stopped talking to him or they died. Except Christine, and Uhura and Scotty and...

 

[JoseNoodles]

7/10 It was fine. Not groundbreaking fine. Kinda wish there would have been a setup for something happening in season 4, but I get the sense this might have been a series finale had the show not been renewed for 2 more seasons. I also would have expected M'Benga to have played a bigger role.

 

[Noname Given]

The bigger implication is "How Strong are your frigging Shields"

If your Phasers are that strong, and you're shrugging multiple blasts off of standard Phasers, how much more power did they just increase the SNW ships by?

It's not just "Bigger Ships", but also Bigger Power Output in Weaponry & Shields.

Remember in the end of Discovery S2, they were shrugging off tons of Phaser Fire from Drones and Capital Ships for how long during the final battle?

There are some serious implications to what they just did.

Since Trek started all ship's shields and weapons (Federation, Klingon, Romulan, et. al.) are as stong, or work in whatever way heightens the drama/is part of a plot point for the story they're telling that week.

And it's interesting to note for that all the ship battles portrayed in TOS (and there were a number of them) - the ONLY time 'percetage of shield power -m IE 50%, 25%, etc.) was ever mentioned was in TOS S2 The Changling.

Unlike the TOS Teature films and the Berman Era and Kurtzman Era stuff that often mentioned remaining shield power in percentages, TOS used:

"Deflector slields are holding..."

"The shields are still up..."

"The shields are gone/down..."

"Deflector shields are strained..."

"Deflector Power won't last much longer..."

">Deflector Facing< will not withstand another full charge..."

So, overall they never got too technical about them or 'shield power' in general during TOS' run.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Since Trek started all ship's shields and weapons (Federation, Klingon, Romulan, et. al.) are as stong, or work in whatever way heightens the drama/is part of a plot point for the story they're telling that week.

And it's interesting to note for that all the ship battles portrayed in TOS (and there were a number of them) - the ONLY time 'percetage of shield power -m IE 50%, 25%, etc.) was ever mentioned was in TOS S2 The Changling.

Unlike the TOS Teature films and the Berman Era and Kurtzman Era stuff that often mentioned remaining shield power in percentages, TOS used:

"Deflector slields are holding..."

"The shields are still up..."

"The shields are gone/down..."

"Deflector shields are strained..."

"Deflector Power won't last much longer..."

">Deflector Facing< will not withstand another full charge..."

So, overall they never got too technical about them or 'shield power' in general during TOS' run.

Don't you find it fascinating how things have changed and basic things like "the Shields are @ ###%" is now the standard way to report Shield info.

Even in SNW.

 

[Cap'n Calhoun]

Maybe everything after Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow (where the Eugenics Wars were shifted) really is an alternate timeline (or a "close enough" timeline).

Depends on what you mean, I suppose.

"I think continuity is the devil we know," said Goldsman. "And so we're always trying to, as you saw in [Season 3's "Terrarium"], we do a lot to then do some resetting of awareness of the Gorn and how we can start to drive towards the time of 'Arena' [The The Original Series episode that introduced the alien race] and nobody having seen a Gorn, apparently, before Kirk in that moment. So we are always aware of that, despite that there are folks on the internet who are like, 'Just acknowledge it's an alt-timeline and stop worrying about it!' But we don't. We like to try to stay in the Prime Timeline in our imaginations."

So it's all "Prime Timeline", but "timeline" is a bit of a flexible term. "Redemption" is generally considered part of the same timeline as "Encounter at Farpoint", but Tasha Yar's going back in time definitely shifted things a bit. So you can arguably have a changed timeline that's not an alternate timeline (as with the changes described in "T&T&T", at least depending on how you're using the terms.