Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x10 - "New Life and New Civilizations"

[Sakonna]

They instead waste time on things like this daft dual phaser mind meld nonsense. Oh the computer can't do it, we have go waste time on this.

This really jumped out at me too. Like, we live in a world TODAY of so many devices and programs with easy sync features.

This season was worse than Star Wars Acolyte which was canceled over less. At least Acolyte left you wondering what would happen next and where things were going to go, despite also being a prequel. With SNW Season 3, the only hanging thread is how Spock breaks up with La'an, otherwise it's just treading water until TOS.

Well, in fairness, they clearly thought this could be it and had to write it as a possible series finale.

 

[fireproof78]

JHC ... It's the Return of the Reset Button.

Back by (Not Quite So) Popular Demand!

You got to go with the Trek classics. Remember Voyager was in high demand on Netflix.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Because it's an arbitrary line.

What continuity issues create a new timeline? James R Kirk?

The James R. Kirk is easily explainable Gary Mitchell got the Middle Initial wrong.

Kirk's middle name came later, as can be ascertained by the "James R. Kirk" tombstone, created by Gary Mitchell in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", Kirk's middle initial was R, not T. According to D.C. Fontana in the introduction for Star Trek: The Classic Episodes 1, when the mistake over the middle initial was discovered, Gene Roddenberry decided that if pressed for an answer on the discrepancy, the response was to be "Gary Mitchell had godlike powers, but at base he was Human. He made a mistake."

TOS is in the 28th century?

That would be a big deal and justify a new Timeline.

Eugenic Wars moving dates?

That's already a point of contention and reason for speculating why SNW is in a New Timeline as is.

Vulcan conquered or not?

Depending on when it happens, yes it can be contentious and need a new Timeline.

First ship with warp?

That could also create a New Timeline.

 

[Char Kais]

Star Trek Strange New Worlds 2025

Perry Rhodan 1996

 

[Starflight]

Hated this, couldn't quite believe what I was watching when SUPER BATEL fought the PRIMAL EVIL and turned into a statue in the Soul Calibur arena in space.

The ending scene was interesting in that it felt almost like they were trying to reset the show to its original planet-of-the-week format. The Metron's cheap-ass "we may have to make you forget the Gorn lol" thing should have been a clue. I think the writers are trying to clean the slate and give themselves a do-over. That's probably why this episode was a PIC-style clusterfuck - just tidy away all these disparate doomed plot threads so we can get the fuck out of here.

 

[fireproof78]

The James R. Kirk is easily explainable Gary Mitchell got the Middle Initial wrong.

Bullshit. Supposedly best friends and taught by Kirk at the Academy and godlike Gary gets it wrong?

That would be a big deal and justify a new Timeline

Bye-bye "Squire of Gothos."

That's already a point of contention and reason for speculating why SNW is in a New Timeline as is.

I notice TNG never had this issue.

Depending on when it happens, yes it can be contentious and need a new Timeline.

Whelp, guess those two episodes get their own timeline

That could also create a New Timeline.

Bye-bye TAS. Guess that explains April's appearance.

This is why it's ridiculous. It's hair splitting at it's finest because these things all happened within one show much less spinoffs. So now there's no consistency across episodes of one show.

 

[Sakonna]

Since when?

How long has "Quality Of Mercy" been a flop for me? Since the moment it aired, of course. To run through some of my issues quickly: the themes and general messaging are awful, it's the moment when they kind of lost Pike's character and never successfully regained it, it debuts the disastrous Wesley Kirk, and the cliffhanger is awkward and tacked on. And some of these missteps are things that carried forward and undermined everything that followed, so the failures aren't even restricted to just this one episode.

It is not a total wash, though. The recreation of "Balance Of Terror" is technically exceptional and quite fun on that level. They rarely fall down on execution.

I know many love it. To me, it's a clear winner for "2nd Worst Episode Of The Entire Series."

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Bullshit. Supposedly best friends and taught by Kirk at the Academy and godlike Gary gets it wrong?

Yeah, and, I don't tell people my Middle Name or Initial.
It's not necessary or relevant.
Even to my BFF's.

For Gary Mitchell, it's a minor mistake in the grand scheme of things.

I notice TNG never had this issue.

I know you're not fond of TNG or Berman-era Trek.
But for those of us who really enjoyed it, they managed to have fairly good internal consistency during that time.
It wasn't perfect, but it didn't cause as many issues as SNW did.

This is why it's ridiculous. It's hair splitting at it's finest because these things all happened within one show much less spinoffs. So now there's no consistency across episodes of one show.

Isn't that problematic, to have not much internal consistency within the same show, much less other shows.

 

[fireproof78]

know you're not fond of TNG or Berman-era Trek.
But for those of us who really enjoyed it, they managed to have fairly good internal consistency during that time.
It wasn't perfect, but it didn't cause as many issues as SNW did.

Deep Space Nine is my second or third favorite show, Tuvok my favorite Vulcan character. Yup, I sure not fond of Berman era...

I meant they TNG shifted the Eugenics Wars but wasn't treated as an alternate timeline, when it clearly is to TOS.

Yeah, and, I don't tell people my Middle Name or Initial.
It's not necessary or relevant.
Even to my BFF's.

Academies often have different rules. Plus, godlike abilities. So ... Bullshit papering over a discontinuity.

Isn't that problematic, to have not much internal consistency within the same show, much less other shows.

Not if one treats as a show. Even historical information gets updated as we learn.

 

[Captain Jollydark]

I guess I'll start with a positive comment, and note they made a great effort to tie most of the season together here at the end. Though largely a sequel to Through the Lens of Time, it also weaves in Batel's whole season arc, Korby, finds an excuse to drag in Kirk yet again, etc. All it needed was to drag back in Beto and it would've felt like a suitably full package.

And yet, the execution here was lacking, even though I thought all the pieces were in place for an excellent finale. The first third or so of the episode was decent setup, I felt. Then when they finish the scans of Batel and she just starts having all these sudden realizations about her destiny, the episode lost me. It was one of the worst failures of show vs tell I've ever seen in Star Trek. Nothing about the dialogue coming out of her mouth was in any way a reflection of what we knew regarding her character. The show was just making her state the plot because it was the easiest and most effective way to get from point A to point B.

Adding to this is the weirdly rushed pace of much of the episode. This was hugely overstuffed with twists, sideplots, and exposition, which meant that none of the individual crises lasted long enough to really have an impact. It really feels like they had the story here for a two-parter (whether as a season finale or cliffhanger) and the story would be given far more time to breathe (and the characters time to have genuine moments of intimacy) if they did so.

But then there were the lovely flash-forward scenes with the potential future if Batel survived and had a family with Pike. I didn't know what to make of these scenes at first, thinking they were some sort of illusion put up by the Vezda to defeat Batel. Yet they were too heartwarming for that, and indeed it turned out to be some imagined timeline that Batel created to give her and Pike more time together? I presume he remembered this timeline as well, given the ending. While I do think it's heartwarming, I cannot believe she was so incredibly cruel as to dream up a hypothetical daughter who will never exist. I understand the intent of this inclusion, but Pike will not reminisce about the full and happy life they had together, somewhere else, but of the child who never got to exist.

Regardless, I didn't hate this episode, but I found it an underwhelming season closing. They could have gone with a big high-octane ensemble finale or a close, personal look at Pike and Batel. But I think 50 minutes just wasn't enough to do both, and the entirety suffers as a result. It diminished both the Vezda and Pike and Batel's relationship.

Oh, and are they starting to queer bait Kirk/Spock?

I laughed so hard when the ships got all synchronous dancing and then one got on top of the other.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Deep Space Nine is my second or third favorite show, Tuvok my favorite Vulcan character. Yup, I sure not fond of Berman era...

I meant they TNG shifted the Eugenics Wars but wasn't treated as an alternate timeline, when it clearly is to TOS.

It was SNW that shifted the time frame of Eugenics Wars from (1992-1996) ► (2022-2056)

Academies often have different rules. Plus, godlike abilities. So ... Bullshit papering over a discontinuity.

Gene Roddenberry approved of it.
Good Enough of a answer to the discontinuity for me.

Not if one treats as a show. Even historical information gets updated as we learn.

I prefer to treat Star Trek as a "Historical Drama" show, just one set in the future, a "Sci-Fi Future Historical Drama"

 

[Donald G]

Because it's an arbitrary line.

What continuity issues create a new timeline? James R Kirk? TOS is in the 28th century? Eugenic Wars moving dates? Vulcan conquered or not? First ship with warp?

Hell, we used to have a long time regular poster here who hypothesized back in the 70s, in essays published in the Best of TREK collections, that almost every individual episode of TOS was in its own alternate timeline.

He was still advocating that hypothesis here between 39.9999 and 45.0001 years later.

 

[fireproof78]

was SNW that shifted the time frame of Eugenics Wars from (1992-1996) ► (2022-2056)

Nope. TNG moved it plus added a "post atomic horror."

Gene Roddenberry approved of it.

So voice of the creator overrides all?

So, SNW is not alternate because TOS was not literal history but a dramatization of Kirk's logs.

prefer to treat Star Trek as a "Historical Drama" show, just one set in the future, a "Sci-Fi Future Historical Drama"

Historical dramas get details wrong all the time.

Regardless, I treat Star Trek as entertainment first, dramatization second, and possibly a historical event third.

It still doesn't help it all fit together.

 

[Gul Re'jal]

I'm sure the writers were hoping that this emotional content would distract from the plotting problems but it didn't. In the end, it was just an illusion that never happened but it filled air time. Pike doesn't have a daughter out there etc. A nothing-burger.

I'll have to disagree. There was a purpose for this little fantasy: it gave Batel a chance to live a happy life, filled with family and love. And that happiness and love made her stronger to oppose The Great Evil Gamble. She literally says it.

 

[Yistaan]

Most of the other contradictions have in-universe explanations that fans can imagine. I'm struggling to think of an in-universe explanation for why Spock would claim in TOS that he never melded with a human before, because I find it very hard to believe that he would forget melding with Kirk. And if he's lying, there's just no reason for Spock to lie to McCoy in that particular scene. I'm struggling to find an explanation that fits and that's in character.

 

[fireproof78]

Most of the other contradictions have in-universe explanations that fans can imagine. I'm struggling to think of an in-universe explanation for why Spock would claim in TOS that he never melded with a human before, because I find it very hard to believe that he would forget melding with Kirk. And if he's lying, there's just no reason for Spock to lie to McCoy in that particular scene. I'm struggling to find an explanation that fits and that's in character.

Until we get to the end of the story do we need one?

Reasonably, Spock could decide that all the relationships left him far more emotional than he wanted to be in his pursuit of logic. So, he takes a leave and trains at a Vulcan monastery like Tuvok did, leaving behind some memories in the process, a small sacrifice in the name of logic.

 

[Nyotarules]

Watched it four times today. My favourite part is the Pike/Batel postive version of It's a wonderful life. I like to think she made him experience the alt universe of another Pike/Batel couple out there. He could use those memories when he gets to Talos, Vina can be their nosey next door neighbour in his future illusions.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

Star Trek Strange New Worlds 2025

Perry Rhodan 1996

My mind first went to The 100.

 

[fireproof78]

Watched it four times today. My favourite part is the Pike/Batel postive version of It's a wonderful life. I like to think she made him experience the alt universe of another Pike/Batel couple out there. He could use ithose memories when he gets to Talos, Vina can be their nosey next door neighbour in his future illusions.

Kind of want a sitcom of this now, the way you describe it.

Sounds a bit like The Family Man meets WandaVision, without the craziness.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Nope. TNG moved it plus added a "post atomic horror."

What episode did they move it in?
"Post Atomic Horror" is related to WW3, seperated from the Eugenics War in the 1990's.

So voice of the creator overrides all?

If not Gene, who else?

So, SNW is not alternate because TOS was not literal history but a dramatization of Kirk's logs.

Or maybe it might've been in an alternate Timeline all along because TOS has critical events taking place in different time frames compared to SNW.
It doesn't change the enjoyment factor of SNW either.

Screen Rant - Star Trek’s Eugenics Wars & 3 Khan Timelines Explained

In the Star Trek: Strange New Worlds season 2 episode, "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow," a young Khan (Desmond Sivan) appears in 21st-century Toronto, Canada. The episode follows Khan's descendent La'an Noonien-Singh (Christina Chong) and an alternate universe version of Captain Kirk (Paul Wesley) as they find themselves in the 21st century. As they work to figure out what event changed the timeline, they discover an undercover Romulan operative named Sera (Adelaide Kane) who planned to assassinate the young Khan. Sera reveals that Romulans have been attempting to slow the progress of humanity in order to keep them from achieving space travel and warp speed.


Since the Romulans have been manipulating history, the rise of Khan and the augments, as well as the ensuing Eugenics Wars, happen later than previous Star Trek series have stated. In an interview with CinemaBlend, Strange New Worlds' co-showrunner Akiva Goldsman confirmed that the dates of certain events, including the Eugenics Wars, were pushed forward "in order to keep Star Trek in our timeline." Star Trek supposedly takes place in the future of our timeline, and this change in Trek canon makes that still plausible. In "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow," La'an and Kirk successfully prevent the child Khan's death, setting up the future return of the powerful dictator.

Historical dramas get details wrong all the time.

Regardless, I treat Star Trek as entertainment first, dramatization second, and possibly a historical event third.

It still doesn't help it all fit together.

Different Timeline continuities would help answer for any historical mistakes.
But you don't seem to like that idea.

So we'll have to agree to disagree.