DC Cinematic Universe ( The James Gunn era)
- Thread starter Samurai8472
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Yeah, I just read that. I haven't seen anything with Ritchson in it, but I do think he has look and physicality to play Batman.
I just want someone that looks the part. As much as I enjoyed Michael Keaton's take on Batman and seeing him again in the Flash, I'm happy that the previous DCU managers failed so that Keaton's Batman didn't replace Affleck's. Also, I'm glad that, so far at least, it looks like Gunn doesn't want Pattison's emo Batman in the DCU. Again, I appreciated and liked The Batman, but Pattison's Batman wasn't really the one I would like to see at all in the DCU.
I want to see the Batman from the comics. Affleck, actually, came closest to being that character. Classic Batman penciller Graham Nolan said that Christopher Nolan's (no relation) Batman was more James Bond and I get that. Those films leaned into the realism, the same (different style though) as The Batman. I could actually see Bale playing Batman in the DCU if he wanted to come back and Gunn wanted him.
I saw some commentators criticizing Ritchson, though, for being too old. That's wrong, because Batman should be in his late 30s to 40s for the Batman and Son storyline that Gunn wants to bring to the screen. There's nothing wrong with making Batman older than Superman at all, more of a vet, more experienced. Remember that Nightwing is in this universe as well, there is already at least one Batman's foster sons in this universe too. Batman should be older than Superman in the DCU.
Aside from the ages of various Robins, I find the idea of an older Batman implausible, because most pro athletes retire in their late 20s or 30s as cumulative injuries take their toll, and Batman takes a tougher pounding in the course of his job than any pro athlete. True, some athletes keep going into their 40s, like Serena Williams, but they don't spend their lives getting beaten up and shot and stabbed and burned and poisoned on a regular basis.
Well, nothing about Batman is remotely plausible to begin with, despite the strenuous efforts of some creators and fans to pretend otherwise. Having him still be active as a crime fighter in his forties would not even come close to topping the list of nonsense associated with the character and concept.
When Frank Miller had him return to action in The Dark Knight Returns in what was presumably his fifties (I don’t remember if it was ever specified), with just a few token nods to his physical limitations, I bought it readily for purposes of the story. This stuff is pure fantasy no matter how much self-serious grimdark you dress it up in, and an older Batman is not going to be the straw that breaks the back of its already nonexistent believability.
When Frank Miller had him return to action in The Dark Knight Returns in what was presumably his fifties (I don’t remember if it was ever specified), with just a few token nods to his physical limitations, I bought it readily for purposes of the story. This stuff is pure fantasy no matter how much self-serious grimdark you dress it up in, and an older Batman is not going to be the straw that breaks the back of its already nonexistent believability.
Relative to a universe inhabited by flying humanoid aliens and actual Greek gods, a peak athlete/genius using his skills and gadgetry to fight crime is quite plausible. When I first got into Batman comics in the '80s and '90s, the approach was to treat them as the most grounded and naturalistic of DC's series, which was the inspiration for Nolan's movies doing the same (since movie adaptations tend to lag a couple of decades behind their sources). So that still shapes my view of the character.
Besides, I would submit that there's a difference between asking audiences to suspend disbelief about something outside real-world experience, such as aliens and sorcerors and the like, and asking them to suspend disbelief about the depiction of known, everyday things like the endurance of the human body. People are less likely to be forgiving about unrealistic depictions of things they know about firsthand, even in a fantasy context. Richard Matheson argued that a story should have one impossible element and keep everything around it as believable as possible to make it feel more convincing. It seems to me that that would apply particularly to things people know from their own lives, because if they don't find those aspects authentic, they'd be less inclined to buy into the more exotic ideas.
I don't think it's necessarily implausible. They've addressed Batman's aging in the books from time to time, most evidently in The Dark Knight Returns and Kingdom Come. He accumulates injuries, slows down, and is in more pain, but is still in the game. In the books, seeing as there have been 4 (5 if you count Stephanie) Robins, Batman has got to be in his 40s.
He's not playing pro-sports, he's fighting crime and, more importantly, he's Batman.
They've even had a couple of stories where Batman was rejuvenated by taking a dip in Ra's Al Ghul's (Damien's grandfather) Lazarus Pit.
You're totally right. Within the context of the DCU, it's no problem.
Both Christopher Nolan and Matt Reeves pushed a plausible Batman in a world very similar to our own. Those are certainly legitimate takes on the character that have been explored in the books. An example is Miller's Batman Year One (probably a inspiration for Reeve's The Batman), which was very gritty and street level.
But on the other hand, you have Grant Morrison's take on Batman, a guy who is essentially the brains and tactical leader of the Justice League and can stand toe to toe with them. Or Loeb's Batman who is best friends with Superman. Those are legitimate takes too.
The great thing about the character is that it is so flexible. You can do gritty crimes stories, lighter stories (like the Batman TV show), sci-fi stories, and gothic horror stories.
QFT
Really?
I loved Hoechlin's Superman. I'm still bummed that they didn't get the 7 season run they envisioned, but I just don't think Gunn will go for him since he was so recently Superman.
Though, now that I think about it, he might be able to pull it off. It would certainly be a different character.
I read that some fans wanted Henry Cavill to be Batman. I think you're facing the same problem there, maybe even moreso since Cavill was on the big screen as Superman.
Mamoa can get away with playing Lobo since he can wear a lot of makeup and Lobo is such a boisterous and disgusting being. But I don't know about Hoechlin or Cavill playing Batman. I guess they'd wear the cowl and that would help.
I like him as Reacher and other stuff I have seen him in but nothing in there suggests to me he would make a good Bruce Wayne who is born to the upper classes.
I read 90s books too and I get what you're saying. I'd remind you, though, that Batman was also in Grant Morrison's Justice League books, doing incredible things, alongside Superman, Wonderwoman, etc. There was a reason he was referred to by fans as uber-bat in those books, because that depiction wasn't exactly a gritty one. I mean, even in the batbooks of the time, Batman survived and healed of a vicious beating and back-breaking by Bane, who also dropped him from at least two stories. That's not very realistic at all.
And I recall stories by both Alan Grant and Peter Milligan that had Batman fighting the occult as well.
And if he's in his upper 30s, maybe early 40s tops, I can buy that. It's once he gets old enough to have five consecutive Robins, the first two of whom are now adults and the latest of whom is his teenage son, that it gets ridiculous. I think it was a manifestly stupid decision to reboot the timeline to keep Batman in his 30s yet also cram eight decades' worth of Robin history into an absurdly brief timespan.
John Byrne's Generations miniseries may not have been his greatest works, but I liked their conceit of depicting the characters aging realistically over the decades and passing the torch to their successors. There was a time when comics actually allowed that to happen to an extent, e.g. with the Justice League and the Teen Titans and the X-Men. But then fans started to become writers and editors and began resetting things to the status quo they'd liked when they were kids.
Which, as I already said, is exactly my point -- that as a crimefighter going up against bad guys with guns and blades and poison gases and explosives and freeze rays and superhuman strength and whatnot, he surely endures worse physical abuse than even a quarterback or heavyweight boxer would face, and thus would be likely to have an even shorter career before he's suffered too much cumulative injury to recover from fully.
Weirdly, I really liked All Star Superman but really disliked Morrison's approach to Batman. Maybe that's partly because I prefer a more grounded Batman, at least in post-Silver Age contexts.
Damien aside, the Robins are all aged within ten years of each other. The second generation of Supers would all have to be in their late thirties and early forties with the sidekicks generation being in their mid-twenties to early thirties. The new Teen Titans heroes are the ones from Damien's group with Tim's Teen Titans being in their early twenties.
Thanks for the input!
I'm with you. Given the ages of Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damien, Bruce has got to be in his, what, late 40s or early 50s? There is overlap, of course in those Robins.
One of the preposterous things about The New 52 was the decision of DC to pretty much just on with the Batman and GL status quos, which would require any previous stories happening in an approximate 5 year time frame. So, all the four previous Robins had to fit in a 5 year span as well as 4 green lanterns of earth. They should've really just had Dick Grayson back as Robin, or postponed the reboot to allow Morrison and Johns to finish their stories in Batman and GL, but DC wanted to bake their cake and eat it too. The multiple Robins and GLs stood out, being the elephant in the room. And they had to explain how Damien looked like a 10 or 12 year old in only 5 years too. So stupid.
Yeah, I liked Generations a lot too. I have Generations and Generations 2 in my collection.
Dan Didio wanted to reboot the DCU into that after Death Metal. I can't remember what it was going to be called, but Morrison talked about the whole thing on his blog and how Scott Snyder asked him to try to talk Didio out of doing it. Didio was fired shortly after. In any case, it was an interesting idea. I think it might've worked as a side project like Generations, but I think a lot of the DC creators had big concerns of that model becoming the main one for DC's main universe.
I don't think there's anything weird about that at all. Like I said, the Batman character is really flexible. I like most of the iterations and runs that I've read.
BTW, seeing as how you got into Batman in the 80s and 90s, who were your favorite writers and artists from those eras?
Yeah, Tim must be college age or right out of college now, right?
Hmm, it's kind of fuzzy in retrospect. And the things I got into first in those days were not my favorites once I got a broader sampling. My first introduction to any version of Batman other than Adam West and Olan Soule was when my comics-reading best friend in high school introduced me to The Dark Knight Returns, which as you can imagine was quite a jarring contrast. From there I went to stuff like Year One, but in the long run, it was the work of writers like O'Neil and Barr and artists like Adams, Giordano, and Aparo that were more my speed. As well as the writers and artists of Batman: The Animated Series and the associated comics.
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