How big was the Enterprise?
- Thread starter Admiral Jean-Luc Picard
- Start date
A couple of times, but it wasnt very clear.
Yeah, in Discovery 2.01 using an early version of the Enterprise with straight nacelle pylons. They used the sizes from the old Star Fleet Technical Manual, which do not match the proportions of the Disco/SNW Enterprise.
Not quite. What was aired was a computer display for the Disco Enterprise with graphics using straight warp pylons. Most of the dimensions except for the warp nacelle were blocked by Stamets in the scene. If you used the warp nacelle length you could derive an overall length of 280m.
In SNW there were a couple of scenes where the overall length was present in bts graphics but were illegible either from being out of focus or camera moves (even watching on a 4k version) although IIRC, the dedication plaque might have been visible with the 443m figure.
i recalled a screen panel with the SNW/Disco, although on further thought, it may have technically been the Sombra class, but stating that it was essentially a carbon copy of the Connie but with even less crew, using the old figures....
anyway, the new size and proportions never solved the old issues, and indeed introduced new ones with the liberties taken. and we have the example of picard example of both snw and tos connies appearing...
"how big is she" i feel may never be solved
yo mama so big, she shapeshifts every year
anyway, the new size and proportions never solved the old issues, and indeed introduced new ones with the liberties taken. and we have the example of picard example of both snw and tos connies appearing...
"how big is she" i feel may never be solved
yo mama so big, she shapeshifts every year
Yeah, I bet you've seen the behind-the-scenes graphics for Disco/SNW with those figures but none of it was legible on screen (or just blocked by an actor) so no on-screen discrepancies, IMHO. However in SNW 3x07
we are shown documentary style that the SNW Enterprise is 443m and 190,000 MT in big clear text.
I do agree that for the size of the TOS Enterprise we'll never know
No, it’s not. If you haven’t been paying attention the DSC/SNW universe isn’t the Prime Universe. Full stop and incontestable. There is absolutely no way whatsoever you ran rationalize the DSC/SNW with the TOS universe.
Besides which, if I’m not mistaken, the current show runners have already established it’s a different rebooted continuity, of which we now have three: TOS, JJtrek and now DSC/SNW.
No. No. And no.
Yes. Yes. And yes.
You are mistaken. No one has said that. SNW/DISCOVERY/Lower Decks is all part of the prime timeline. You might want to pretend that, and that's fine. It's all a fictional universe. But in terms of what CBS/Paramount thinks, this information is correct. This isn't to say that maybe some modification will be done between SNW's current time and TOS where the ship is a little shorter, but no where near the 288 meters or whatever keeps getting claimed for the Enterprise.
Nope
Well, it seems to be solving a lot of problems for some fans, but realistically it'll never solve everything. Realistically we're still stuck with total nonsense if you look too closely, which is probably a good reason to avoid analysing the minute details too much. (Credit to those who have spent decades doing so)
Jefferies' and Eaves' connies are indeed very different ships with very different proportions, and if you reimagine or reboot a design you've reimagined all the dimensions too. So, unless we see these two suckers side by side, we still don't really know-know. Something that possibly should've happened in PIC S3, but there you go.
Visually, there's no way to match them up. However, the DSC episode with the Talosians already made it clear that that doesn't matter by splicing footage from The Cage with modern DSC footage and presenting them as continuous. So, a different visual continuity but the same sequence of events?
I think you're referring to the SNW episode Tomorrow And Tomorrow And Tomorrow which explicitly moves Khan's childhood from the pre-1990s to the mid 2020s.
However, whether you label the subsequent years "different continuity" or "altered timeline" the result is the same - events are going to play out very differently!
The only really weird thing is that the series creators seem to be implying that certain events (Starfleet, Enterprise, Pike and Kirk) all end up happening anyway, as if the universe is trying to "correct" itself somehow. Now that's some really spooky woo!
Since events in "The Cage" precedes DSC then the Enterprise could've looked like the TOS version and was upgraded afterwards to look like the DSC/SNW version. Or because of the time tampering that is still happening in the past that all histories can bounce back and forth in or between episodes as one side alters and the other attempts to undo the tampering.
I think you're referring to the SNW episode Tomorrow And Tomorrow And Tomorrow which explicitly moves Khan's childhood from the pre-1990s to the mid 2020s.
However, whether you label the subsequent years "different continuity" or "altered timeline" the result is the same - events are going to play out very differently!
The only really weird thing is that the series creators seem to be implying that certain events (Starfleet, Enterprise, Pike and Kirk) all end up happening anyway, as if the universe is trying to "correct" itself somehow. Now that's some really spooky woo!
Yeah, SNW's (Season 2) "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" not only explicitly moves Khan's birth by several decades but also stated that Earth's technological development was being constantly slowed by the Romulans for at least 30 years with the battle ongoing. That spooky woo also gives us the answer to any and all Star Trek inconsistencies... the universe "corrections" (inconsistencies) happen because the Romulans caused it!
Sliding, inconsistent dates are as old as Star Trek itself, though, with "Squire of Gothos" establishing it took place around 2700, and "Space Seed" establishing the setting as circa 2200 (plus other date-establishing examples I don't have at my fingertips). Scale was variable, too, especially if you go behind the scenes, where even the KT version still isn't big enough for the shuttlebay to hold a fleet of jetliners or there to be twenty floors in the saucer. People don't (earnestly) say every episode of TOS was a stand-alone reinterpretation of the premise that isn't the same fictional universe, though.
And yet "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" gives us a solid in-universe reason why every episode and movie in Star Trek can be inconsistent with what came before and what will come after.
And that's the way you do it.
Still not sure why anyone is worrying about it. It's a visual update nearly 60 years later. Big deal.
Actually, it *is* Prime.
To summarize, the "Prime Timeline" continuity was an invention of the guys (especially Orci) making the JJ Abrams films. The traditional continuity of the live action stuff from TOS-ENT had TAS, novels, and comics added to it (per Kurtzman saying so for over a decade), thus creating a "Prime" continuity. (This is, of course, logically distinct from the Original Universe continuity which explicitly didn't include that stuff, but that makes some folks mad.) The "Kelvin Timeline" continuity splits off from that "Prime" continuity, and Kurtzman brought that "Prime" concept to Fuller's "reimagine" of Trek as its setting, which was initially quite vague during development.
I think you'll find it a lot easier to interact with producer comments and any fan foot-stomping by not trying to wrest the "Prime" moniker away from them. It is theirs. They should keep it.
