Spoilers The Fantastic Four: First Steps grade and discussion thread

[Guy Gardener]

I like your Steve Rogers comment. It would be particularly apt if the multiverse is indeed collapsed and they end up living on the main Earth. It would even be more interesting if they end up living on the main Earth and the rest of the world knows who they are and believes they've been living there for years.

As I've sat with the film for awhile, I really think it's one of the best MCU stories we've had in years. I think I like Thunderbolts just a little bit more, but that still makes two great stories in a row. My wife and kids thought it was great and they haven't liked a Marvel film since GOTG3. I hope that the FF get a sequel film after Secret Wars without too much delay.

The multiuniversal squash had everyone in 616 believe that Miles Morales Spider-Man had always been there but even if that happens for Marvel's First Family... They are still from the past.

The jew issues (wow, I'm going to leave that typo in, I'm typing on my phone.) of Captain America are set in a spongy era of the 60s/90s just 7 days after the Avengers revived Steve from the ice... So he's still going on missions for the Army (General Ross!) and they have current heretofore unheard of Captain America of the 60s/90s who is not Nuke, as Steve Roger's babysitter.

Even if this Fantastic Four from the new movie, is from a parallel world, maybe movie 616 has its own Fantastic Four who are pushing 120.

Ben and Reed, seem immortal?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I felt that Reed thought since the world loved them, they would understand. But he was also visibly shaken and not thinking clearly and didn't have a Plan B yet. In the end he was right, but Sue had to speak to them as a parent and also as part of their extended family.

I felt this aspect, while similar to Superman, worked better in First Steps because in Superman, people did a 180 against him the moment news broke from third parties. Trusting immediately what they saw in the media.

Since the movie Superman is trying to mirror today's society in a lot of ways, I didn't buy it. There wouldn't be a sudden collective turn based on media claims, even expert verification. We have people who doubt EVERYTHING from the media and experts ("9/11 was in inside job!"), people who don't ("trust the science"), and people in between . It was an expedient shortcut that didn't work for me. And then they all turned back just as quickly later on.

At least the world in First Steps heard all of this first had from the people involved.

Crisis actors?

Can Superman sniff out the difference between 200 true believers, and 200 Crisis actors with all of his super senses, working together?

 

[JoeZhang]

The activity in this topic has fallen off precipitiously after, what, three weekends?

The reception for the film is discouraging. It's not a flop. It's not a hit. It seems like it just...is.

There seems to no WOM for it - either negative or positive. It exists and people generally seem to have enjoyed it but not enough to say to friends - "you MUST go and see this". Especially to something like F1 which has been very leggy.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

There seems to no WOM for it - either negative or positive. It exists and people generally seem to have enjoyed it but not enough to say to friends - "you MUST go and see this". Especially to something like F1 which has been very leggy.

Yeah, I'll agree on that point, as disappointing as that it is. I heard a lot of people talking about Superman after its release and I still do, as recently as last week when I overheard some guests (at an event I worked) talk about, well, Man of Steel (specifically the murder of Zod) but I suspect it was in context of Superman.

The difference between the two films is that, while both franchises have had a string of disappointing films (from the perspectives of both fandom and general audiences), Superman is far more iconic for even regular folk while the Fantastic Four holds a special place in the hearts for only comic book fans. As a result, general audiences are much more curious and willing to go see another Superman film while interest in yet another Fantastic Four bout is much less limited.

Again, I am disappointed that word of mouth for First Steps hasn't been greater, even less as much as it was for Thunderbolts*, but at the same time, I never thought it would be at the same levels as Superman. Like @Mage said, hopefully the film will get a second wind for general audiences once it becomes available for streaming (which I'm still hoping for Thunderbolts* as well).

 

[Mage]

Again, I am disappointed thatword of mouth for First Steps hasn't been greater, even less as much as it was for Thunderbolts*, but at the same time, I never thought it would be at the same levels as Superman. Like @Mage said, hopefully the film will get a second wind for general audiences once it becomes available for streaming (which I'm still hoping for Thunderbolts* as well).

I have faith it will. Same thing happened with The Marvels. Once it hit streaming, a lot of (positive) feedback was seen.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

There seems to no WOM for it - either negative or positive. It exists and people generally seem to have enjoyed it but not enough to say to friends - "you MUST go and see this".

Similar to many of this year's comic book-based releases, FF is just there as a film and not on the "must see" level to any degree. It reminds me of the situation with a film I consider one of rare great MCU movies: Captain America: The First Avenger, which had the novelty of having its own voice, look and some heart with the main characters, but audiences (for varying reasons) did not jump to their feet ready to sell it to others. It took the sequel to elevate the Rogers version of Cap to the mass appeal / active word of mouth level, and perhaps the FF will benefit from their second act (theirs alone, not the in-progress arc that will dictate most of the other MCU films of the next few years), where it can take a deeper dive into the character connection aspect (which was the best part of First Steps), and how they maintain that in the face of what one can assume will be greater troubles.

 

[Sgt. Sacrament]

The activity in this topic has fallen off precipitiously after, what, three weekends?

The reception for the film is discouraging. It's not a flop. It's not a hit. It seems like it just...is.

It mirrors what Forbes said (link below) that the film collapsed at the box office, which it did. And has continued to do. It is just there. It didn't light the world on fire.

And that's the problem... it needed to light the world on fire. It needed to be a juggernaut. It needed to become a sensation. It needed to be all of that to build momentum and excitement for the Avengers movie next year.

A lot of the publicity over the last year hinted that the FF would be taking center stage in the MCU, which makes sense, since Doctor Doom is coming... now I wonder if that is true.

There’s An Obvious Reason Why ‘Fantastic Four: First Steps’ Collapsed At The Box Office

There are actually lots of reasons, but one in particular should explain why Marvel's latest movie doesn't have legs.

www.forbes.com

 

[theenglish]

Similar to many of this year's comic book-based releases, FF is just there as a film and not on the "must see" level to any degree. It reminds me of the situation with a film I consider one of rare great MCU movies: Captain America: The First Avenger, which had the novelty of having its own voice, look and some heart with the main characters, but audiences (for varying reasons) did not jump to their feet ready to sell it to others. It took the sequel to elevate the Rogers version of Cap to the mass appeal / active word of mouth level, and perhaps the FF will benefit from their second act (theirs alone, not the in-progress arc that will dictate most of the other MCU films of the next few years), where it can take a deeper dive into the character connection aspect (which was the best part of First Steps), and how they maintain that in the face of what one can assume will be greater troubles.

I kind of miss that era when Marvel films were just there and there really wasn't any expectation that they be super-popular. The whole Marvel Films division seemed to have been designed by people who loved the comics for people who loved the comics and were happy if those films made a few dollars.

 

[Mudd]

I don't buy the Forbes take overall, but Kain brings up a couple of good points.

 

[Noname Given]

It mirrors what Forbes said (link below) that the film collapsed at the box office, which it did. And has continued to do. It is just there. It didn't light the world on fire.

And that's the problem... it needed to light the world on fire. It needed to be a juggernaut. It needed to become a sensation. It needed to be all of that to build momentum and excitement for the Avengers movie next year.

A lot of the publicity over the last year hinted that the FF would be taking center stage in the MCU, which makes sense, since Doctor Doom is coming... now I wonder if that is true.

There’s An Obvious Reason Why ‘Fantastic Four: First Steps’ Collapsed At The Box Office

There are actually lots of reasons, but one in particular should explain why Marvel's latest movie doesn't have legs.

www.forbes.com

It's probably going to clear a Worldwide BO Take of $500 million when all is said and done, which isn't a a 'Bomb' by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm a HUGE FF fan and even I never thought the film would be a Billion dollar hit. Yes, there ARE FF fans and yes, they (like me) went to see the film once, and we'll watch it again on streaming. The days of people going to see films multiple times in theatres (except for absolute Truly Hard Core fans of a franchise are over as they know it'll be available on Stream WAY faster than Films would go to VHS/DVD/BluRay in the past.

(And yes, you will get the occasional film that somehow manages to break this current Trend - but they're rare and usually there are other factors driving that type of fan response.)

Was Disney HOPING for more? of course. Is the film a Box Office Bomb? Nope.

And FF fans will see this group again in two more films - Doomsday and Secret Wars.

Will there be a Fantastic Four Second Steps film in the current MCU continuity or after the MCU reboot? Who knows. I hope so, but time will tell.

 

[JoeZhang]

It's probably going to clear a Worldwide BO Take of $500 million when all is said and done,

Will there be a Fantastic Four Second Steps film in the current MCU continuity or after the MCU reboot? Who knows. I hope so, but time will tell.

Just looking at today's box office - increasingly unlikely to hit 500 million.

No we will never see a sequel to this version of the fantastic four in any universe it is done.

 

[Noname Given]

Just looking at today's box office - increasingly unlikely to hit 500 million.

No we will never see a sequel to this version of the fantastic four in any universe it is done.

IDK It's at $470 million Worldwide after 4 weeks.

Between Domestic and international I think It'll get at least another $30 million if it runs another 5 - 6 weeks.

Most MCU films run 9 - 10 weeks.

 

[Turtletrekker]

It just may come down to the fact that Matt Shakman isn't James Gunn. He's very talented, but he doesn't have the following or the rep that Gunn has.

 

[Sgt. Sacrament]

It's probably going to clear a Worldwide BO Take of $500 million when all is said and done, which isn't a a 'Bomb' by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm a HUGE FF fan ...

Was Disney HOPING for more? of course. Is the film a Box Office Bomb? Nope.

And FF fans will see this group again in two more films - Doomsday and Secret Wars.

Will there be a Fantastic Four Second Steps film in the current MCU continuity or after the MCU reboot? Who knows. I hope so, but time will tell.

I never said it was a bomb. If it gets to $500M, it may be close to breaking even.

What I said was, Disney is desperately banking everything on Doomsday. Everything. And this is the only big thing before that. Surely the hope was for FF to be a sensation, a huge hit, to prime the pump for Doomsday.

But it didn't happen.

And I'm a huge FF fan. I got started on it as a kid during John Bryne's run, which I thought was AMAZING. I had huge expectations. I tempered them, of course, as always, open to new interpretations... but I was unfortunately disappointed. I wanted this to be the first great MCU film since Infinity War.

 

[Noname Given]

It just may come down to the fact that Matt Shakman isn't James Gunn. He's very talented, but he doesn't have the following or the rep that Gunn has.

Honestly, I don't think the FF as a group has the draw or popularity that the Superman character has.

It also premired in 150 less theatres (IE lower count) on its opening weekend compared to Jame's Gunn's Superman.
^^^
Did/Is it going to make a huge difference, no - but it does make some difference.

Plus, it was the 3rd MCU film released since April of this year. And yeah, I thiink some MCU fans picked and chose, and they my have said "I'll wait for Cable/Streaming".

(For me the FF was what got me into comics as a kid in the early 1970s. And I always prefered Marvel over DC. )

 

[The Nth Doctor]

No we will never see a sequel to this version of the fantastic four in any universe it is done.

Ah, yes, grand sweeping, condescending statements that serve no purpose other than discord. My favorite!

 

[Mudd]

It just may come down to the fact that Matt Shakman isn't James Gunn. He's very talented, but he doesn't have the following or the rep that Gunn has.

He doesn't have the experience. He is a really good TV director. Gunn has directed a string of hugely successful theatrical films - with the occasional box office dud, of course.

The only commercial film director who arguably has a "following" that can make a difference on the opening weekend of a movie is Christopher Nolan. Maybe.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

The only commercial film director who arguably has a "following" that can make a difference on the opening weekend of a movie is Christopher Nolan. Maybe.

That's a stretch and I say that as a massive Christopher Nolan fan.

James Cameron definitely has that same level of effect (and I say that as someone who can't stand Avatar and will never bother with the sequels) and with the right film, Steven Spielberg can probably do it still (but he's less of a guarantee as he was in his heyday). I'm sure there are a few other exceptions that I'm not thinking of.

My point is it's not limited to just Nolan.

 

[theenglish]

What I said was, Disney is desperately banking everything on Doomsday. Everything. And this is the only big thing before that. Surely the hope was for FF to be a sensation, a huge hit, to prime the pump for Doomsday.

This isn't really true though. Spider-Man comes out next summer and that could very possibly be a bigger film than anything released this year.

 

[Mudd]

Cameron, maybe.